Hey guys,

Alright so basically I'm pretty sure I don't have spark, car's been a long project and now im trying to start it. I definitely have fuel.

The LEDs on the box are all flashing while cranking (ignition 1-4 and injector 1-4 and the ignition trigger and probably a few more)

Now i do get a msg when i just do "key on" on the wolf v4 hand controller saying something about ignition sense low and check wiring, not sure what that is.

My setup is Wolf v4, Unmodified FC CAS, FD ignitor, 1 msd 6a box, 4 MSD coils.

I have 12V on a switched relay, and the coils are getting 12V at their positive terminals.

A) Anyone have any wiring guide for how this setup should look? Even if you only have a wiring guide for Wolf->Unmodified FC CAS -> FD ignitor -> coils, that would be fine i can figure out the MSD myself.

B) what should i test for at the negative terminal of the coil to see if i'm getting a trigger from the wolf? I think i had it right but i got nothing so i want to see if maybe i was just doing it wrong.

C) Does anyone have a map for an FC with a CAS and an FD ignitor and 4 aftermarket coils? The only map I have to work off of is for an FD and I'm pretty sure the CAS setup in the wolf would be different which would give me a whole different sort of trouble.

Also i have my current map available on my computer so if anything in it could help you guys to help me out i can grab any info you want.

Hopefully someone out there can help, im going to go about searching but i dont remember ever finding anything about this type of problem.

Thanks in advance!

kevin.

 

I'm starting to think the FD Ignitor cant control 4 individual coils...am i wrong in thinking this? I'm guessing i just split that wire that was supposed to go to the one leading coil and made it go to both my leading coils.

I knew i was gonna **** up this stupid ignition since day one. I am so ******* aggravated I wish all the info would be in one topic.

kevin.

 

Ok went back over everything.

igniter is wired:

PIN 1 - Trailing Wolf (T1)
PIN 2 - To Trailing Coil (T1)
PIN 3 - Trailing Wolf (T2)
PIN 4 - 12V IN (switched)
PIN 5 - To Trailing Coil (T2)
PIN 6 - Leading Wolf
PIN 7 - To Leading Coil (split to both leading coils, goes to MSD, then from MSD to leading coils)
PIN 8 - Unused (bridged to pin 7 inside the igniter)

The CAS is setup as per nyt's instructions, except the offset is 5 instead of 4...didn't change that but not sure it would cause absolutely no spark, figured i'd still get some kind of spark.

I have fuel pressure.

Hand controller reads proper cranking rpm, anywhere from 250-350rpm (once i put the jumper cables on it i was seeing about 350rpm)

The ignition output LEDs are flashing as I'm cranking, as are the trigger and injectors.

Tried swapping to a different FD Ignitor, no change.

I have +B/12V at the positive terminals of the coils. This is on a 10A fuse, fuse has never blown, i figured 10A is too small but it hasn't blown so I'm not sure if its a bottleneck or a sign that i have no ignition going on.

Put an inline spark tester on the trailing and leading, no signs of spark at all. I checked the trailing because the MSD is only on the leading so i figured if the MSD was the cause the trailing would be sparking, but nope, no spark anywhere.

Only thing I didn't check was if i had +12V at the ignitor, but i'm pretty sure i do i know i have it wired i just didnt physically doublecheck it at the moment.

So the only questions I have are:
A) Does the FD Ignitor have to be bolted down so that it is grounded as right now I have it floating, just laying on the inner fender well.

B) Can someone PLEASE help me here.

C) If i put a DVOM/Voltmeter to the negative post of the coils what should i be seeing? If i test the ignition output wire at the ecu how do i test it? One lead on the battery post other lead on the wire, when the ignition "turns on" it should show 12V right?

D) Could this be caused by the "key on" error im getting? "Ignition sense low even tho ecu is on, check wiring"? I found out i have to loop the terminals together for the turbo timer to fix this error, would this cause a no spark issue?

i wish someone was local and could help. It has to be something i'm just completely missing or something. To top it off i left one of the oil cooler hoses loose so i got to work in a 2 qt puddle of oil, hooray.

kevin.

 

Kevin,

when I went to my v500 I was told I needed to run 2 more leading ignitors.
I ended up using a M&W ignitor instead.

I dont know the differences between the FD ignitors or the FCs ones, but Wayne told me to get the FC leading ignitors and thats what I did. Meanwhile I ended up using the M&W instead.

My advice is to contact Wayne, he will tell you what you need, and with all due respect to other tuners in the area and im not knocking ANY of them- I would use Wayne to tune the car as well, his service is excellent and he is a gentleman to deal with.

 

Yea he's who i want to actually tune the car, but i want to at least get it startable so I know there aren't any other problems.

Hopefully I won't have to change this setup, i do have my old t2 coils and ignitors laying around amazingly (found them today). Maybe i'll shoot him an email or something. Gonna try to do the wireloop to get rid of that error and see if i get spark, if not im going to at least email him, i have few chances to use the phone.

kevin.

 

if your car was already running then im not sure any of the "advice" I gave is relevant?

 

Pin 31 or maybe 30 is a blue w/ shield "ignition ground" i don't have this grounded, am I supposed to? I thought i remembered someone saying that you don't have to ground that but i'm not sure if i need to or not.

kevin

 

I dont know, but I had a one wire temp sensor and when I went to the upgraded v500 and the msd at the same time the msd caused the one wire sensor to go haywire making the car run terrible, put a 2 wire in because it no longer used the engine as a ground.

Moral- those little grounds can sometimes be VERY important

 

Yes the ignition circuit need this otherwise no spark. Basically the ignition circuit isn't tied directly to the ECU earth or chassis. I would suspect it was done if you have separate supply circuits for the ignition.

Cheers
Michael Smith

 

So the ignition ground has to be grounded seperately to the chassis? If so that is great news, thats one of the wires I had disconnected and tucked away when i reinstalled all the wiring.

Great I'm going to reattach that wire to the chassis ground and see if i finally get some spark. Thats what it seemed like, like the ecu couldn't switch it to ground because it didn't have one.

Just o verify i think its pin 30 or pin 31, it is a blue wire w/ shield IIRC and is labeled "ignition ground" on the wolf schematics...

kevin.

 

The stock FD ignitor must be bolted to the chassis to charge the coils... I helped troubleshoot a similar problem on my friend's car. The car had no spark. Among other things, he had relocated the coils and ignitor but the ignitor wasn't bolted down to the chassis and wasn't grounding well. After moving his ignitor back to the stock location and bolting it down, the car had spark again.


By the way I don't think that connecting two coils to the leading channel on the ignitor is a good idea.

 

scotty and michael: thanks to both of you for that useful information.

I'm going to try it again using your suggestions sometime this week probably, FD ran into some problems so I've been messing with that lately, think i figured those out so now its back to the FC and trying to get some spark

kevin.

 

Do you know where I can get a start-up map tor a t2? I have a v 4.0