FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Take it up w/ the law, cuz they're the ones who set the rules as such...

live2drive15

iTrader: (4)

Yea what if the fact that she pulled out killed one of them? What then? I point the finger at those responsible, which was both of them. There's no way you can say that accident was ENTIRELY the mazda6's drivers fault. If you think you can than that's just sad.

DrKillJoY

She didn't so it doesn't matter.

If, they were travelling at the speed limit(which they weren't), the chances of avoiding the accident by all parties involved would have increased dramatically.

However that is a theorhetical statement at best. I guess we can discuss it the next time some dumbass street racer plows into (or gets plowed into) by another driver.

The FACT is that street racers HIT innocent drivers an overwhelming majority of the time. Not that innocent drivers hit the street racers.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

But you're in no way required to avoid such an accident. You can maintain your course, and still be found innocent, because you did not break the law. The person who made the improper turn - which you so astutely pointed out - making you MOVE out of your way is at fault. Plain and simple. You shouldn't have to do anything. What if all the other lanes are full w/ moving traffic, and you have a semi behind you? The person who made that dumbass turn in front of you is liable to kill YOU or cause a multi-car crash. THEY are a major hazard too. And that's all while you're doing the speed limit. So your point isn't valid I'm afraid.

And therein lies your problem. You obviously have a problem w/ street racers as a whole, and are allowing your bias to make you impartial, ignoring the FACTS of this case. Sure, street racing is bad and wrong. But NOTHING changes the fact that the report says it was a wide straight stretch, and she turned in front of them. Really, unless you can dispute how she is NOT at fault at all, and how the law allows reckless and improper lane changes, and failure to yield, there really is nothing to argue about.

It seems to me that your concern is not case-specific. You seem to be just generally really REALLY peeved about street racing. If so, I REALLY hope that you're not the type to pull such a risky and reckless turn in front of us faster drivers, or sit in the left/passing/fast lane doing the speed limit or below the flow of traffic, and get mad at us when we cut you off... There are 2 sides to every coin. Failing to yield to faster traffic is against the law, too. Notice, it doesn't stipulate "unless they're doing above the speed limit, in which case you don't have to yield..."

As for the one sided coin...well...no one argues about that. Eg. street racer loses control, plows into parking lot, killing innocent bystander.

Fumanchu

I'm staying out of this one.



I don't want to make Ramy cry.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Shutup Jeff lol.

DrKillJoY

My issue isn't with street racers per se' (as you can see by my previous statement. My problem is with people who are not responsible for their actions or attempt to defer the blame to the third party.

In other words be a man, take your lumps and deal with the consequences.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Do you really think ppl can just pop into your lane w/o a safe distance to do so - regardless of the speed at which youi're travelling? Two wrongs don't make a right. Just cuz I'm speeding doesn't mean you can jump in front of me w/o adequate space to do so. I really think that the speed issue is inconsequential here. Now if the law decides to step things up and say that if you're speeding, you're at fault period, no matter what, because that makes judging distance and space too difficult, maybe you may have an argument. But then, I'd think the government is simply breeding stupid drivers...

I'm not taking lumps for ppl who don't know how to drive, don't know how to respect other drivers by maintaining stratified lane control, and make reckless mistakes. That's all. If you pull in front of me w/o enough space, I'm taking lumps for YOUR mistake why?

Germany has no (enforced) speed limit on the Autobahn. It also takes about $6000 US and 3 - 4 road exams, two of which MUST be in rain and snow, to get your license. The roads are well maintained, and no jellopies on the road lol. Speed simply isn't a major safety issue, because drivers understand and know how to drive at higher speeds. Yielding to faster traffic is understood, expected, and automatic. The US is BY FAR the absolute worst I have seen when it comes to yielding to faster traffic. I've seen driving in other countries where the conditions are utterly horrid, but ppl there even understand to yield to faster traffic. This doesn't just apply to turns...this also applies to quickly approaching cars from behind. I dunno why it's such a hard concept to grasp? I'm bout to get a license plate that says "MOVE" lol

But in credit of the US, I gotta say, some states are really good about it. PA and NJ really raised my eyebrows. They immediately move over to the right when you're coming on strong. But then again, in PA, driving on the left lane (on the turnpike) is illegal...it's for passing only.

live2drive15

iTrader: (4)

Newbie said it for me, Good job.

speed7

Funny thing is you people weren't there. So you can't assume as to what exactly was going on. You can guess.. but thats about it. We dont' know road conditions, visibility limits, street layout, ect.... too many factors, since guess what, you weren't there.

We DO know one thing. The Kids were speeding. I'm not trying to point blame, just point out that trying to point blame to anyone else without all the facts is a waste of time.

We all speed at one point or another but like others said on this thread.. keep it on the track. And let the people with some idea on how to drive make fun of you there. =)

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Arguing about what the victim should have done is silly.

Sure maybe if John Force was racing down the street and Micheal Schumacher was turning left he could have avoided the accident.

Speed limits are set for conditions and drivers that aren't race car drivers.

JamesBong

AHAH! But you are speculating. The only facts stated about the conditions was strait and wide. Hills are still a variable, and we can't assume that the other driver could even see them at the time she looked left before making her turn.

True about the Autobahn, but they do have striclty enforced speed limits on strait wide suburban roads.

The best one I've seen is a windshield valence printed mirror image that reads "Slower Traffic Keep Right"

Oregon is like that too. The big difference in those states is that the left lane is called the passing lane, not the "fast" lane.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Eh...I think if it says straight and wide, and that's all it says, that's all we assume. Factoring in other variables is speculation at best. Leaving it as is (ie good view) would be taking the facts as they are.

Of course. I was just commenting on driver mentality as a whole. It's like, we have some ppl here who feel the need to "police" other citizens. Slow drivers holding up the left lane, not letting you get past, speeding up when you're trying to overtake them, flashing their headlights when you pass them (not cutting them off, mind you). These guys are a dime a dozen. And I saw another guy who was policing the shoulder a year or so ago when we were heading down 95 South. It was a CONSTRUCTION DISASTER. 2 lanes were shut down, so naturally ppl opened up the shoulder for their use. This guy was practically straddling the right lane and the shoulder to prohibit ppl from using the shoulder? I mean...wtf?

And what REALLY gets to me is, then you hear on the news that it's crazy how calm ppl take on a different personality in the car...and become aggressive, have road rage... THAT'S HOGWASH. I'm a super calm guy 99.99% of the time, but if I was WALKING on the sidewalk, and some guy in front of me stepped to me and wouldn't let me pass, wouldn't let me by, and when I tried to hop onto the grass for a sec to get by him, he'd try and stop me there too, honestly, w/o a second's hesistation, I'd drop him flat on his face. Cold. And I feel the EXACT same way on the road. Just cuz you're in a car and I can't see who you are doesn't mean you can get away w/ being stupid like that. In my humble opinion, it's a NATURAL reaction to get all mad and aggressive when someone invades your way/space and intentionally tries to annoy the hell out of you - esp when you have places to be and things to do. But everyone only looks at one side of the pic: the guy who went berzerk. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Look at the guy who CAUSED it. End

Ohhh...I like It's gotta be written backward of course, so the drivers in front of you can read it

Yea I think legally our left lane is called the "passing" lane, but everyone just calls it the fast lane.

Bitchslapper

If anyone has been driving on the freeway at about 65 and a car passes you at 80, it looks like they are driving like a bat out of hell. These kids were driving 90 in a 45. There is no way in hell you could judge their distance when pulling out to make a turn. I'm sure she saw them coming and obviously didn't expect them to be traveling 90mph. I can't see how it would be her fault.

live2drive15

iTrader: (4)

No lady, no accident. Speeding or not.

Bitchslapper

" No lady, no accident????". Ok then no Jews, No Haulocaust. No World trade Center Towers , no September 11 tragedy. Thats just ridiculous

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Well gosh... there you have it.

Bitchslapper, you're prob right...it woulda been very hard for her to judge their speed. WHICH IS WHY SHE SHOULDA STAYED PUT UNTIL TRAFFIC CLEARED. When in doubt, YIELD. Accidents don't happen, they're caused (as VA says clearly printed on the bag your license plates come in lol). I don't know WHAT kind of logic tells you that if you're not sure, you can assume it's ok, and just go. Thought process like that is what causes the majority of collisions. Ppl see the lane ahead is blocked. They don't get a chance to look over their shoulder to ensure no car is coming, and ASSUME there isn't one. They half-*** check their sideview, and gun it - into the oncoming car. If you don't know, STAY PUT. End of story.

Bitchslapper

The point is she wouldn't have known they were going 90 until it was too late. A car traveling 90mph travels 132 ft per second, so thats almost 3 football fields in 6 seconds. When she pulled out she must of thought it to be safe since when she saw them coming, granted it was six seconds before impact ,they were far enough away for her to pull out.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

You know, I can see that happening. While I still think that's poor judgement and failing to stop long enough to adequately assess their speed, safe distance necessary, etc, you definitely do have a point that them practically doubling the speed limit plays a major role as well. See, I'm not so stubborn

Bitchslapper

Thanks for seing my point. I can see yours as well, Maybe she just got off from work,was tired, maybe she just glanced at traffic while in her own world, what ever the case may be. I still think its racing that caused the accident.
I can't say I've never raced anyone, but I just feel people should be more careful with other traffic than trying to win the race.

live2drive15

iTrader: (4)

By the way I was only half serious on that comment. Street racing is dangerous be smart if you're goin to do it or don't do it at all. BUT driving in general is dangerous when you have mindless drivers not paying attention that got their license by driving slow and turning their head left to right at every intersection, not to mention their cell phone was turned off and their make up bag at home. I'm sorry this was a two sided accident, if they give him manslaughter i'm turning in my license.

live2drive15

iTrader: (4)

TRUE, but yes rediculous.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

If she would had looked she would had gotten rear ended not sideswiped.

Riccio

At 90 MPH, a rear end collision can also result in fatalities - probably in both vehicles.

There is no good outcome for this - still a senseless street racing accident IMO.

live2drive15

iTrader: (4)

"Impervious to logic, common sense, and morals."

I'm sure you determined this all from one post. LOL Debates have different sides, your's is different from mine.

P.S. I'd love to know who said this.