Why A V8?

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Old 10-12-07 | 01:07 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Barban
Fallacious conjecture, and where exactly is your budget 350hp sbc?
I've got one... spent 1150 on a 400 cubic inch SBC. 18 month unlimited miles warranty, bored 60 over, 3 way valve job, yada yada yada
Old 10-12-07 | 01:20 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by niburu
I don't think either the Vette or the M3 are going to running in the original factory settings if they are competitive in SOLO 2.
Which "factory settings" would those be in the stock class?

C5's are amazingly good handling cars once you get in and change the settings
Again, which settings would those be?

and put in some better suspension compenents.
Like what? Checking the box next to the Z51 performance package when you ordered the car? Most people interested in autocrossing would already have done so.

apparently you're not understanding the point I'm making about advantages of said M3
Sure I did. They're all subjective, and based on your opinion.

with a lot of work ....see later post you didn't bother to read where i mention that
Not with a lot of work. One will drop between the frame rails of an FD without any work whatsoever.

I'm an idiot adult......I suspect jimlab actually be the original poster of this thread
I suspect you're probably illiterate...
Old 10-12-07 | 01:20 PM
  #28  
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ok so my question for JimLab is about the 454....and how it fits because I am apparently even more woefully ignorant on the subject than i thought
Is the 454 you were talking about the old GM bug block from the 70 muscle cars or some sort of stroker version of an LS series motor?
I have a good friend with a LS-1 in his FC and it does fit in there very nicely but I just have a hard time envisioning something even just a little bit longer fitting in the engine bay as nicely without moving the rad infront of the first cross member or cutting some metal somwhere.
Old 10-12-07 | 01:21 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
I suspect you're probably illiterate...
**** you too
Old 10-12-07 | 01:22 PM
  #30  
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I just have to make 2 quick points in reference to both type motors, if your worried about gas mileage DONT get a sports car!!!!! Another is once you start to mod your engine they both will become more unreliable.

I've been working on pistons engines for 8yrs now and now I'm into Rotary's. I love them regardless of what others may say, I frankly dont care, it's my car, my money. If you still want to prove something its done on the STRIP ect. Not on a stupid pointless thread like this one.
Old 10-12-07 | 01:59 PM
  #31  
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i'm pretty sure the reason we all have rx7s is that we want something thats completly different, camaros and mustangs with v8s out there are a dime a dozen, most of us here just want something else to drive, which is not to say v8s suck or anything, they're beastly, everybody knows that, but the rotary calls to us in a different way, oh well
Old 10-12-07 | 02:08 PM
  #32  
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i love v8s
Old 10-12-07 | 02:34 PM
  #33  
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I may be wrong but i thought i have seen a 454 in an sa22 before? Am i wrong?


Also good thrashing we got in here!
Old 10-12-07 | 03:41 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
Piston engines don't barf broken parts out the exhaust ports and take out your turbo(s) when they die.


True but rotary's dont completey shoot broken parts out of the block like pistons (aluminum blocks) do when something breaks. Ask yourself when was the last time you were able to rebuild that kind of damage yourself without having to send the piston block out to be professionaly repaired? With the rotary, some used housings, rotors, and new seals will have you back on the road with basic DIY tools at home.

Last edited by t-von; 10-12-07 at 03:55 PM.
Old 10-12-07 | 03:45 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
It's exactly
Not often. Broken parts in a piston engine typically stay in the engine.

Just the same with any rotary. Lets compare rebuild cost and ease of rebuilding when something like this happens. There's no comparison that the rotary is cheaper.

Last edited by t-von; 10-12-07 at 03:57 PM.
Old 10-12-07 | 04:03 PM
  #36  
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!

Last edited by t-von; 10-12-07 at 04:12 PM.
Old 10-12-07 | 04:11 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ProBlasphemer
Also, rotarys are GAS GUZZLERS and since a heavier Vette or Camaro with the LS/6spd can knock down 28mpg on the highway, so will one of these.

NA vs NA they are not GAS GUZZLERS. On the highway, you can easily take advantage of the v8's low end torque to keep your rpm's in a managable fuel economy range with it's super tall 6th gear. In comparison a 4.0L V8 in a BMW 540i sport can barely manage 20 hwy mpg cause of the more rev happy gear ratios. It's all about the gearing.

Oh yea, my NA 91 vert managed nearly 28 mpg recently on the highway with stock gearing and A/C. With a 16gallon capacity tank, I was able to travel 400 miles ( 100 of which was city driving ). I can only imagine my range if I was able to do all the driving on the highway. So much for your mileage claims.

Last edited by t-von; 10-12-07 at 04:20 PM.
Old 10-12-07 | 07:35 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by t-von
True but rotary's dont completey shoot broken parts out of the block like pistons (aluminum blocks) do when something breaks.
How often does this happen outside of racing?

Ask yourself when was the last time you were able to rebuild that kind of damage yourself without having to send the piston block out to be professionaly repaired?
When was the last time you were able to repair a rotary engine without pulling the engine out of the car and replacing at least one rotor and housing, and potentially a turbo?

No matter what goes wrong inside a rotary, you have to pull the engine, pull off all the supporting equipment and accessories, wiring harness, fuel rails, etc. You can repair anything but catastrophic damage on a piston engine without having to remove the block from the car.

With the rotary, some used housings, rotors, and new seals will have you back on the road with basic DIY tools at home.
Yeah, some basic DIY tools like an engine hoist, a 6-foot breaker bar to get the eccentric shaft nut off, and...

Lets compare rebuild cost and ease of rebuilding
Let's compare frequency of rebuilding.
Old 10-12-07 | 09:43 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
If you're implying that 3 is "better" than 2, then you should know that a V8 has 4 combustion events per rotation which, by your own logic, is better than 3.
Then the 13b has 6, I was referencing one cylinder/rotor
They are, which is why governing bodies in racing rate them at higher than their "factory" displacement.
The reason their displacement is doubled is due to the fact that they are a 1 cycle engine competing against 4 cycle engines; which is exactly what I was pointing out, sir.

Rotary engine displacements were purposely underrated (and it was allowed, because the design differs from a conventional 4-stroke engine) to avoid higher taxation on 2.0+ liter engines in Japan.
How did a conspiracy theory find its way into your objective and unclouded logic?

So now you want to create a new formula for calculating output per liter that takes into account the number of combustion events?
It was intended to conject(my new favourite word[note classy spelling]) that any increase in power production for any given combustion event would be multiplied by 3/2 for a 2 rotor package, or 9/4 for a 3 rotor engine when compared to a 4 stroke v8. Can you deny that?

The majority of your posts are, I've found.
And, you've been so well behaved lately that we may let you out early.

Last edited by Narfle; 10-12-07 at 09:51 PM.
Old 10-12-07 | 09:47 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by slow7NC
I've got one... spent 1150 on a 400 cubic inch SBC. 18 month unlimited miles warranty, bored 60 over, 3 way valve job, yada yada yada
How much more would you have to pay for a TBI setup and peripherals? I'd venture it would double the cost of your build. That combined with the necessary modifications to horn it in any 7 and youre budget is now representative of a decent single turbo 13b build making "the same" power.
Old 10-12-07 | 09:58 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Barban
Then the 13b has 6, I was referencing one cylinder/rotor
I know what you were "referencing".

The reason their displacement is doubled is due to the fact that they are a 1 cycle engine competing against 4 cycle engines; which is exactly what I was pointing out, sir.
Wrong. The rotary is a 4-cycle engine, just like a piston engine. Intake, compression, combustion, exhaust.

How did a conspiracy theory find its way into your objective and unclouded logic?
No conspiracy, historical fact. Look it up.

It was intended to conject (my new favourite word[note classy spelling]) that any increase in power production for any given combustion event would be multiplied by 3/2 for a 2 rotor package, or 9/4 for a 3 rotor engine when compared to a 4 stroke v8. Can you deny that?
Yes. Horsepower is a measure of work performed over time, regardless of the number of combustion events in that period of time. If it weren't, you couldn't compare a 4-cylinder engine to a V8 to a V12 without a "conversion factor".

Leave it to you to try to invent some new way of making the rotary superior instead of just admitting that it's a novel but inefficient means of producing power.
Old 10-12-07 | 10:14 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
Leave it to you to try to invent some new way of making the rotary superior
Leave it to you to defend someone who posted this thread simply to be a douche, because you agree with them.

Leave it to you to put stone-age, iron-block, pushrod v8's on a pedestal; cross your arms, and hold your breath like a small child when confronted with new ideas.

instead of just admitting that it's a novel but inefficient means of producing power.
Was that a toungue in cheek compliment for the rotary? How novel.

I enjoy our foodfights, but you have your loyalties and I have mine. Hence the spaghetti I threw.
Old 10-12-07 | 10:45 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Barban
Leave it to you to defend someone who posted this thread simply to be a douche, because you agree with them.
Show me where I agreed with the original poster.

Leave it to you to put [modern], [aluminum block], pushrod v8's on a pedestal; cross your arms, and hold your breath like a small child when confronted with new ideas.
Likewise, I never stated that V8s are perfect. Only that rotary engines are not.

I enjoy our foodfights, but you have your loyalties and I have mine. Hence the spaghetti I threw.
You have the automotive knowledge of a 4-year old, hence my comments on your theories.
Old 10-13-07 | 12:45 AM
  #44  
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Lol.

I have to admit, my V8 did puke out some piston pieces when I blew it up, but they got pulverized before leaving the valve. I miss that engine. What a blast.
Old 10-13-07 | 01:27 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
You have the automotive knowledge of a 4-year old, hence my comments on your theories.
Old 10-13-07 | 01:04 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jimlab
How often does this happen outside of racing?
Simple flooded engines from excessive rain. Weve had numerious engines through our dealer have piston rods shoot out the aluminum blocks of engines from flooding. Rotary's, the water just passes though.

When was the last time you were able to repair a rotary engine without pulling the engine out of the car and replacing at least one rotor and housing, and potentially a turbo?
That depends on if it's blown or not.

No matter what goes wrong inside a rotary, you have to pull the engine, pull off all the supporting equipment and accessories, wiring harness, fuel rails, etc. You can repair anything but catastrophic damage on a piston engine without having to remove the block from the car.
Very true! Personaly I find it much easier to work on engines with them out of the car anyways. Some of us hate bending over the hood to work on stuff.

Yeah, some basic DIY tools like an engine hoist, a 6-foot breaker bar to get the eccentric shaft nut off, and...
Surely you can find tools more difficult for someone to find Jim? Hoist can be borrowed. Breaker bar = tubular steel. 2 1/8" socket bought at sears. My whole point about the ease of rebuilding was to prove that eveything could be done at home without having to use a machine shop like you would for a piston. For this reason and the interchangabilty of used parts from a wide range of model years makes rotary's far cheaper to rebuild.

Let's compare frequency of rebuilding.
Fine lets compare the longevity of a boosted piston vs a rotary. And NA vs NA in a sports cars. Personally I would feel more comfortable beatig on a rotary with over 100k on the engine than American V8. People blowing engines prematurely due to ignorance truely doesn't show an engines true durabilty.

Last edited by t-von; 10-13-07 at 01:10 PM.
Old 10-13-07 | 01:33 PM
  #47  
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Dear RX7club, I am amazed that your emotional attachment to those beer-keg shaped rotary explosive devices still remains to the year 2007! You clearly lack the abilities to see a troll with the name "ProBlasphemer" with ONE POST IN HIS POST COUNT for what he is, and continue to argue with Jimlab, who even I admit is right!

You also apparently wouldn't know the math he is talking about if it crawled up your *** and brought you to orgasm through prostate stimulation.

Old 10-13-07 | 04:54 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by t-von
Simple flooded engines from excessive rain. Weve had numerious engines through our dealer have piston rods shoot out the aluminum blocks of engines from flooding.
Right, that's a common occurence everywhere...

Rotary's, the water just passes though.
Sure it does, because water compresses in a rotary and not in a piston engine...

Surely you can find tools more difficult for someone to find Jim?
The point being that piston engine owners rarely need an engine hoist.

In fact, find me a piston engine car forum where one of the first things they have you learn are all the "reliability mods" required to even be able to expect average engine life.

My whole point about the ease of rebuilding was to prove that eveything could be done at home without having to use a machine shop like you would for a piston.
Like lapping side housings?

For this reason and the interchangabilty of used parts from a wide range of model years makes rotary's far cheaper to rebuild.
That's hilarious considering the long production runs and vast number of interchangeable parts for both small block Chevy and Ford engines.

Personally I would feel more comfortable beatig on a rotary with over 100k on the engine than American V8.
Whatever.
Old 10-13-07 | 05:21 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Nihilanthic
Dear RX7club, I am amazed that your emotional attachment to those beer-keg shaped rotary explosive devices still remains to the year 2007!
Why? How does that not make sense?

You clearly lack the abilities to see a troll with the name "ProBlasphemer" with ONE POST IN HIS POST COUNT for what he is
No, wesee it. We just enjoy this narrow spectrum of trolling

and continue to argue with Jimlab, who even I admit is right!
JimLab is fun to argue with and always seems to enjoy it as well. No one cares what you admit and he is not infallible despite your man-crush.

You also apparently wouldn't know the math he is talking about if it crawled up your *** and brought you to orgasm through prostate stimulation.
Very little; if any, math has really been discussed here. And my assertion that 13'b have more combustion events per rotation of the assembly when compared to v8's is sound; if thats what you were referring to.

Please go drink bleach,
Barban
Old 10-13-07 | 07:20 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Barban
my assertion that 13'b have more combustion events per rotation of the assembly when compared to v8's is sound;
No, it's not. Note the number of rotations required to fire all three faces of one rotor.



It takes 3 rotations of the eccentric shaft to fire all 6 chambers of a 2-rotor engine. It takes 2 rotations of the crankshaft to fire all 8 chambers in a V8.

13B = 2 combustion events per rotation
V8 = 4 combustion events per rotation

There's your math.



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