usmcjsy:
dont worry man..you didnt offend me, i was just trying to make a point, Its all up to taste. I do agree that when you remove the rotary from the rx7 it no longer has the same rx7 spirit like it did. Also it is true that motor swaping has been around for a long time, and damn its fun trying out new things. I, personaly, want to make my rx7 go real fast with the rotary motor.

PS. anyone interested in the pics of my cars? :)

Ok I guess we can set a race up with you and the RX7.Com street car with a 13B rotary, since RX7s with V8s are faster...according to you anyway. You never said faster than a lot of RX7s you flat out said faster so I guess you can beat every 13B RX7 out there huh BogusFile? The only thing bogus is the crap spewing out your mouth. Also if anyone is interested there is a V8 RX7 on Auto Trader. Its only been on there for about 6 months now. Go into Auto Trader Search under RX7 86-91 and $0-7K and any distance you will find it. It has been on there forever I guess that does not say much for there retail value either. Also BOGUS not seeing a dramatic diffrence in N/A motors why does Hondas 2.0 in the S2000 put out 240H.P its N/A. What does Chevys ECOTEC $ cyl put out? THe RX8 has 1.3 liter putting out 250 HP what American built N/A motor in a production car is putting out that type of power to C.I. Ratio? Lets do a little math and see if GM could put that kinda power out N/A with there 350 where we would be sitting. Well that means your N/A Chevy 350 should be putting out right around 1,064 H.P. Is that what you have BOGUS? Since there is not gonna be much difffrence in N/A motors thats where you should be sitting. Even if you go buy what the S2000 is putting out per C.I. You should have right around 700 H.P. N/A bone stock. Even for example a 91 N/A RX7 BONE STOCK put out 2 H.P. per C.I. Your 350 even against that measure should put out 700H.P. Face it buddy you would have to dump more $$ than you have into your 350 to get that kinda output N/A no NOS no Supercharger no Turbo. Ya you could probably get close to 500H.P. with a supercharger or a blower and or a shot of NOS. THen you will also lower your reliability. Which when push comes to shove meaning sustained High RPMS I think most V8s will fold. your argument is WEAK BOGUS! Just like your BOGUS X7.

Apreludem:
Thanks for understanding what I said, and what I meant by it. Ya I would like to see some pics of your cars. usmcjsy@msn.com, so you have a S2000? Those cars are amazing. A 9000 RPM redline on a piston engine only Honda could do that with a production car. Honda is gonna be a company to keep an eye on in the performance world. Rumor has it that the Acura NSX could possibly be having a 500 H.P. 4.2 Liter V8? DO you know anyhting about this? I read it in Super Street last spring I belive it was maybe a May issue? I dont know but I do remeber reading a article about the Acura NSX and the Toyota Supra with a V8. Small V8 at that about the size of domestic 6's. People that say such stupid things like there is not much difference in N/A cars are just stupid I see tons of difference. I see some engines almost identical size but 1 car company squeezing about an extra 100HP out of the same displacment. I like the RX personally because its probably one of the cheaper performance cars plus I love almost everything about the rotary. If I had cash though I would look at a S2000 or a Supra or somthing. Iam sure you know but there is also a Turbo kit that is now available for the S2000. I bet that makes one hell of a ride:) Anyway this thread is funny. I still cannot believe some people said the V8 makes no difference in handling when the engineers at Mazda said even the V6 would throw off the balmce of the car. I mean the guys who make these cars are smart and have wind tunnels and test grounds and everything they are good at physics and math and all that and we have people who plop a V8 in the engine bay and say its just as good as ever. Why then not make the RX8 a MX8 and put a piston motor in it? Why has Mazda alway chosen the Rotary for there Flagship cars? I guess if these V8 people were right why does Mazda just not do it from the factory? Thats all I wanna know. Why do I constantly download street racing clips form Kazaa and see about a 50/50 win ratio with the RX VS V8 cars to include new Vettes. IO even seen a RX beat a Viper on Kazaa. I would just love to see one of these guys with a V8 seven up against the RX7.COM car which is street legal with all factory glass, seats stereo and so on. No it is not a stock RX but neither is there V8 sevens. Also why don't these RX7 places put V8 in there cars? Why do they stick with the 13B? I just wanna know why? Well to each there own. I agree with that statment and thank God Mazda still believes in creating true lightweight sports cars and does not have these guys designing their cars LOL!

Ok..... you are missing my point by a long shot. I am saying that a V8 RX-7 has more speed potential than one with a rotary. Im not saying that my 4500 dollar investment is faster than Ari yallons car which undoubtedly costed a small fortune. I'd bet a million dollars that he goes through motors faster than I go through a set of rear tires. The guy who built my motor mounts and crossmember has a streetable 9 second V8 RX-7 that could most definetely beat Ari Yallon. He has about 12000 dollars invested into it.
BRB

usmcjsy

You have no REAL understanding of cars do you? Everything you say comes from Superstreet and Import Tuner right? You talk about the RX7.com FD like it's some kind of god. What does that thing runs like 9's right? Do realize how many V8 cars(Mustangs, Camaros, etc) are running faster than that? Do you realize that if you took HALF the money that's in that car and built a V8 RX-7 it would toast the RX7.com FD?

You have bad experience with a LS1 and all of a sudden rotaries are the most powerful engines on earth. You talk about HP per CI...BIG DEAL! You could have 100 HP per CI, but if you only have 1CI you still only have 100 HP. It about HP per lb NOT HP per CI! HP per lb of car is what makes 1/4 mile times. Don't even get me started on TORQUE! Don't even get me started on HP per DOLLAR! Then you talk about REVS like that's the end all be all of speed...PLEASE! REVS mean nothing if you don't have torque. Either way V8s can REV to 6K...you talk like they are limited to 3K or something. It's sad to see someone so clueless about the basics.

What I meant by saying "You are not going to see that dramatic of a difference when working with Naturally aspirated motors." is that the power level will not be changed as dramatically as a turbo charged car with simple mods like exhaust, intake, and so on.

With a Naturally aspirated motor like that of a S2000, or a Z06 you are going to have to spend some serious cash to get a substantial increase in N/A HP. With a Turbo car you can upgrade the Turbo, intercooler, and of course whatever else you will need to do to compensate for the additional boost. BTW there are many naturally aspirated Small blocks(no nos) that have 700hp and some of them are running around on the streets. Stop making comparisons that are invalid and have no point what so ever.

Sorry, I can't resist.....
 

First, you didn't get it completely right. You are correct in saying that the 'R' in RX7 stands for rotary, but you need to add that the 'X' originally (and as far as I'm concerned, still does) stand for eXperimental!! Yep. My friend was a Mazda service manager for years. That's what he was told.

Like I said in my previous post, the power plant does NOT define the entire car. An RX7 with another power plant is STILL an RX7!! I know that Granny's has gotten a lot of bad press here and I have not done business with them, yet. However, when someone engineers a conversion so well that everything pretty much bolts in and uses the original gauges and interior pieces, I have to give them credit. I have seen many conversions that require extensive welding and modifications to the original design. What would you call a Camaro with a rotary in it?? I'd still call it a Camaro.

Second and last, (no noffense meant here) try to type a little slower when your hormones flare!! I can't believe that anyone could misspell or misuse that many words and leave out that many punctuation marks. REALLY, I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I just think that you could be taken more seriously if you made your posts more readable.

Sorry if I offended you. I'm done with this discussion. You may all applaud now.

Man I like all the tuff guys in here. You guys are right you totally persuaeded me to buy that RX7 with a V8 in it off Auto Trader. Only one more ? why are cars that have V8s in them dropping from the market like FLYS? COuld it be because they suck ASS! I added up the parts they have in the RX7.COM car and it is under 10k You are talking about a aluminum block that alone is $4K according to the very fist post on this thread, then a decent set of aluminum head will be around $1200 to $1500 then a intake set up and headers motor mounts the pistons and rods and oil pump and so on and so on. Also MR. Allen Billings the one that has a picture of a RX7 Tractor, I would expect nothing less from a hick like you trying to defend the V8. Please go to Kazza and download the race between the RX7 and C5 Vette it is hilarious to watch the Vette LOSE! You V8 guys with 5+ liter engines do you have any excuse when you lose to a 4 banger or a rotary besides you suck? As far as Import tuner and Street and Strip yes I do read them, As far as how I started my interest in the Jap Crap is because I lived in Japan for a year and was impressed with what I was seeing these cars with little motors doing. I USED to be a V8 guy but they are probably the most common engine on the face of the earth. As far as 700 HP N/A V8's I know they exist and I know the price tag to buy or build one. Oh ya the Drag Racing V8s run all season long with out ever being rebuilt thats straight up BULLSHIT if I have ever heard it. Also RX7.COM is not replacing there motor after every run. Do your fuckin homework or just call and talk to them they will tell ya how often they re-build there motor.
Bogus you dirty Cock Sucker you my points are valid and dont tell me what to do unless you are personally gonna come to Fargo and shut me up in person you little worm. I can't believe how brave some people are behind a keyboard. I would whoop ya like the dot com RX would whoop your Hillbilly Conversion You still wanna call a RX7. Also as far as the Camaro goes ya put a Rotary in it and go ask the Chevy guys if thats still a Camaro and they would probably spit some Beech Nut in your eye and beat you down before they drag you down a gravel road in there F-150. If you guys do not like the rotary or the RX7 then dont visit the site. Most people here seem to talk more about the Rotary just as much as the car if not more. To hear some Greasy Red Neck say the Japanese designers of the RX are wrong when they say what affects the handling of the car is just ludicris. If V8s were gods gift to the car industry every single sports car would have them. They are basically a cheap ass lazy way to provide some 1/2 ass decent HP it take no brains what so ever to get 300 HP out of a V8. You people need to sell your 7s and go buy Camaros or Mustangs.
Ya the V8 may be cheaper than the Rotary if you go out and buy yourself a junkyard jewel but if you buy a real high performance V8 thats all aluminum your gonna be spending some dough. I forgot though you guys are the smartest we got damn Rocket Scientists in here I guess driving 2nd Gen RXs with V8s plopped in em. Give me a break! Once again maybe you guys should get ahold of Mazda and tell them to start dropping 290 HP V8s in the RX8 instead of the 250 HP Rotary. I am sure they will stop everything and get right to it. The Japanese car market has not gotten to where its gotten by being stupid. To get Americans to buy there product after world war II you know that it had be by far superior to our domestics to over come the hatred that still lingers today. By the way yes V8s are fast Toyota currently has a Funny Car with over 6000 HP which is very impressive but Im sure that motor is being rebuilt daily. As far as the local street races are concerned though give me the rotary with a Turbo:). Like I said the day a Rotary is built to match C.I. with a V8 will be a day no one here can argue who the Boss is. The Rotary would mop that 8 with no problem. I will admit I do like the V8s they are good competion for the Rotary but not every V8 powered car is mopping up every Rotary and 4cyl out there. If they were nobody would be buying these turbo 4s and Rotarys. There is somthing that is a little more fun about winning a race with a motor thats at displacment disadvantage. I live in ND this here is Farm Country and people here think C.I only and it is fun watching the 8s lose to the smaller Jap motors. Well I dont know if I will waste my time on this thread anymore so you can bash me all ya want now. I feel like I am talking to the Audience of HEE HAW in this thread.

One more thing to BOGUS Torque? Its not as important as you think. If torque was the awnswer I would drop a diesel out of a cat in my car. Besides you sound like a little bitch.."Don't get me started" Dont even get me started. Thats how a dumb bitch talks! Maybe you and Farmer billings who wants to turn his RX into a tractor should get together. You could be his bitch then again he might not find you as attractive as his sheep. To all the Rotary lovers that come on here don't waste your time in this thread. I think Cooter from the Dukes of Hazard created this thread and these guys are know it alls. You will never drive your point home and there V8 RX7s are the fastest thing to ever have been driven on the road. Funny though I watch Drag Racing a lot and have yet to see a V8 RX7 out there. Maybe these guys should go out there and show em all up and show em how its really done.

Don't even get me started.

usmcjsy
 

You don't know me and I don't know you, yet you call me a hick because I pick a humorous avatar!! Just like a jar head!!
Your english is attrocious, your profanity takes away any credibility you might have ever had, and I wonder if you even finished high school.
You don't even know how old I am or what my experience/background is. Ever run an engine dyno for a living? I have!! Ever work on experimental engines? I have!! Ever work as a machinist? I have!!
You attack anyone who doesn't share your ideas. Hot rodders have been doing engine swaps since the beginning. When someone modifies a car (in the case of the RX7 many cars), it should be seen as a compliment to that particular automobile.
Let me know when they make a rotary that will run and pass emissions for 200,000+ miles and I'll put it in my Chevy.
As far as coming to Fargo to kick your ass......Even I'm not that much of a hick!! Besides, based on your writing ability and powers of cognitive reasoning, I would have to show you where it is BEFORE I kicked it!

I couldn't have said it better. I myself have worked on cars for a living, and I have come across alot of know it alls in the shop. You just learn to ignore them, even when they try to make it personal.

Ok for one there I have seen rotarys go past 200,000 miles. Once again I am not an english teacher and this website says its the home of ROTARY ENTHUSISTS. It says nothing about V8 Enthusist.
Anyway I may need a little help finding the 700HP N/A 350 I have been looking through all my old Hot Rod and Car Craft mags and managed to turn up none. So please if you find one let me know the issue and what magazine.
Howerver I did find some other stuff. I found a Motor Trend from March 2000 that has the LINGENFELTER 650 HP Twin Turbo Vette.
I also found a Car Craft from Jan 2000 with the grudge match between Jon Moss and his Camaro and John Coletti with his Mustang.
I also found my Turbo Magazine from Sept 2000 which features the RX7.COM car
Now when I said I was impressed with the RX7.COM car I said I was impressed with it as a STREET CAR, meaning interior, glass and so on was not tampered with it it still has the factory stereo for christ sake. I believe bogus said it was slow. Well I beg to differ. I will agree that yes TOP FUEL and FUNNY cars with V8's will blow any import away except for the Toyota Celica Funny Car. I guess since this has become a spelling B and no one can just type on sheer emotion and make few mistakes in there haste to be taken seriously I am gonna post what I have found for HP and 1/4 mile time for these four cars. Anyone who does not believe me I told you what magazine and the date of the magazine you can fin it in. I suppose that you 2 bozo's that are machinists and what not can build a faster car than John Lingenfelter, or Jon Moss from GM, and John Coletti from Ford. Remember I am talking street legal cars not full Dragsters. For this reason this is why I FEEL the Rotary is the best choice for a street racer. Ok let check these times out.
1. RX7.COM
Engine:13B Turbo
HP: 645
Torque: 470 LBS-FT
1/4 mi W/O slicks 10.01 sec@142mph
1/4 mi W/slicks 9.62sec@144mph
Yallon:"this car has always kept to the philosiphy of remaining streetable" "You would think this car would see more strip than street not true" "since the RX7 is a street car it makes most of it passes under the street class banner"
2.Twin Turbo Vette
Engine:350 Twin Turbo
HP:650
Torque:600LBS-FT
1/4 mi W/O slicks 11.8@132.1
1/4 mi W/slicks 10.8@133.5
3.Jon Moss Camaro
Engine:580 C.I.
HP:770
Torque:683LB-FT
1/4 mi: W/slicks 11.01@128.64mph
4.John Coletti Mustang
Engine:598 C.I.
HP:855
Torque:794LB-FT
1/4 mi W/slicks: 10.55sec@135.05
Note: Mustang only made one pass while the Camaro got to make several, due to the fact the Mustangs motor let go after the 1st pass.
Ok now these are the facts not my biased opinion. These articles and time can be found again in the following magazines: Car and Driver Jan 2000, Turbo Sep 2000, and Motor Trend March 2000. All cars listed were street legal, and street registered and so on. Obviously none of these cars were bone stock other than the body, interior and the such. I just wanted to point out that Just H.P. and Torque does not guarntee a faster car. Nor does a V8. The RX7.COM was faster on its street tires in the 1/4 than any of the V8 cars on slicks. It also did have less HP and Torque. It was however very close in HP to the Twin Turbo Vette. The Rotary was however a LOT smaller in size. It is for this reason I am hangin in with the Rotary it has proven it self time and time again as far as Street Racing and Drag Racing in the Street Class. I will never own or drive a top fuel or funny car. If I would ever drive top fuel or a funny car I would agree the V8 is the best choice, but Iam not. So I suppose you guys are gonna go show up Lingenfelter. Then I suppose you will show up Moss who is the manager of GMs special vehicles dept and then next you will show up Coletti who is the head of Fords special vehicle dept.
Please anyone who does not believe these times I posted please look at the Magazines I got this information from. Also sheer HP and torque do not matter alone there is a lot more to consider obviously such as how wide the powerband is and so on.
From the information I just posted we can see how amazing the little wankle is if a little effort and patience is used to research diffrent Turbo options and so on. The Rotary here was pitted against V8 motors as big as 598 C.I. and 855 H.P. and yet with almost 200 less H.P. and 300 less LB-Ft of torque she managed to pull a faster time.
Personally I think the Rotary is better balanced, I think those big V8s with gobs of H.P. and Torque just could not hook up. Now if a Vette, Camaro and Mustang cannot hook up and they were built for a V8 how in the world is the RX gonna hook up? Well once again I am sure I am wrong the designers of the RX7 are wrong and every other Rotor head out there is wrong. I am sure the Magazines are wrong to.
One more thing to Allen Billings ya I am a Jar Head, I never brought that up but you decided it was best to slander the Marine Corps and the other branches of service. Shame on you slimey pig! Why did you have to do that? If you wanted to rip on me fine but you had to go bring up the Marine thing before you started hackin into me. Therefore it looks like your hackin on the Corps. The men and women of the armed forces don't need people like you hackin on em. So what you were saying was Marines are stupid, you must cuz you said I was a jarhead and I was stupid and I probably did not even graduate high school. So you put the Jarheads in the same category as drop outs and dumb asses. I will admit I type a little fast and have run on sentences and so on but come on man. Its not cool to bag on the Marines or any other branch of service. Afterall they provide the very blanket of freedom in which you sleep under. So next time you wanna bag on me, bag on me and leave the rest of my branch of service or anyone elses out of it. Have a little respect for these people tis is a car forum and we are all on here just shootin the shit and giving people shit. Thats all it is, if you cant take a little mud slinging then dont come here. It's all in fun. I am sure you are great guy and know a lot about cars. My friends and I are always givin each other shit about each others cars, if we did'nt it would be a long winter here in Fargo for us car guys as the roads got black ice and snow and so on. We won't have ideal racing conditions again till probably may. So we spend the winter working on our cars trying to out do each other and beat the guy who was fastest last year. Anyway chill out

Last I checked Mexico and Canada are in North America, making any car produced there an American car and assembled with American labor.

Now before you get your panties in a bunch, I know you meant US domestic. Yes the Mazda 626 or Toyota Tacoma has more US manufactured parts than a Chevy Pickup... making them a Domestic car more so than a majority of the GM products out there, and that is a shame, but more the UAW's fault than the manufactures.

usmcjsy
 

I was NOT picking on your branch of the service, but I see I finally got your attention! This IS an open forum for cars on which we share a passion. This time you managed to get your point across without too many direct slams at other races, religions, cultures and even me.
I believe my work here is done. I think that you have finally gotten the point.

Yes I believe with my last posting stating times and HP and Torque from other cars we all got the point. The point is each car and each driver is diffrent. Not always will a V8 prevail nor will a Rotary always prevail. The point is just by dropping a V8 into a RX7 is it gonna be faster than RX7 with a Rotary somtimes maybe all the time never. Thats what makes street racing fun. No one really knows whats gonna happen when to perfect strangers pull up to the line for the 1st time. Each has there own mods and set up they think will work best.
Earlier I stated the R stands for Rotary and sombody else said the X stood for Experimental, I don't know if thats right or wrong but as far as I am concerned racing and building any car for racing is experimental. Good Luck to all of you on your projects no matter what you choose to do. Is all I ask is please do not put down the Rotary, and you will not entice this type of debate and the lengths it has went to with my little research project. I would also bet that by people not putting the Rotary down and saying it sux and so on you will find the Rotary crowd a little more friendly towards the V8 crowd. Also I never meant to offend anyone based on race, sex, religion and so on. I know I spoke of some geographical locations and I meant nothing personal by it. All I simply was stating is these locations have never been known for there educational backrounds and technological advances and so on...no fault of there own as the oppertunities just don't exist there.
Well Happy New Year everyone!
My New Year resolution is to not stop back in this thread again! The reason being everyone has there own beliefs which is the better powerplant for there car and there own reasons for believing it. Nothing I say will change the V8 lovers mind. Also there is nothing they can say that will ever change mine. So with that said I am saying Sayanora to this thread.

Big deal.

Final Race Results - July, 27-28th, 2002
Pro Street
Driver Car RT ET MPH
W MILT DECKER 63 VETTE 0.521 6.824 203.55
R RANDY ADLER 57CHEVY 0.609 6.738 199.67
Qualifying - Eliminations

Super Street
Driver Car RT ET MPH
W BILLY GLIDDEN 90 FOX-MUSTANG 0.515 7.698 170.58
R MARK ENWIA 92 MUSTANG 0.529 8.046 174.37
Qualifying - Eliminations

Nostalgia Pro Street
Driver Car RT ET MPH
W BOB ALEXANDER 93 MUSTANG 0.503 7.961 173.94
- MIKE FOULK 69 TORINO 0.526 8.174 167.61
Qualifying - Eliminations

Xtreme Street
Driver Car RT ET MPH
W TONY ORTS 68 FIREBIRD 0.444 8.563 160.58
R ERNIE PARISON 90 MUSTANG 0.507 8.679 160.52
Qualifying - Eliminations

Pro Stock
Driver Car RT ET MPH
W DAN PAOLINI 94 CAMARO 0.584 9.382 145.45
R CHRIS URATCKO 69 CAMARO 0.615 9.582 143.11
Qualifying - Eliminations

True Street
Driver Car RD 1 RD 2 RD 3 AVG
W Greg Edwards 1967 Camaro 9.288 9.343 9.444 9.358
R Craig Zoetmulder 1980 CJ-7 Jeep 11.202 11.204 11.23 11.210
Qualifying - Eliminations

Cheap Street
Driver Car RT ET MPH
W JEREMEY TAYLOR 66 NOVA 0.527 9.884 133.96
R JAY CANELLA 62 NOVA 0.557 10.012 133.94
Qualifying - Eliminations

Open Comp
Driver Car RT DI ET MPH
W SHANE FOUGHT 95 MUSTANG 0.516 11.63 11.617 113.08
R SCOTT LAWS 82 MUSTANG 0.511 10.71 10.670 119.73
Qualifying - Eliminations

Nostalgia Super Stock
Driver Car RT DI ET MPH
W JOE EWING 63 DODGE 0.528 10.50 10.535 119.61
R JEFF PUCKETT 67 PONT TEMPEST 0.527 11.00 11.037 120.62
Qualifying - Eliminations

Re: Sorry, I can't resist.....
 

"the rotary was selected, first for compactness and power potential, but also for heritage. Said Yamamoto: "To forsake the rotary would be losing our identity. The RX-7 could not and would not exist without the rotary." "

take it however you want.

I'm not going to get into the whole V8 -vs- Rotary argument, but will refer back to the original post instead.

$4000 for an aluminum block? Ouch. $4000 is a lot of money to save 100 lbs.

How am I supposed to run 25 psi on that aluminum block anyway! :P

Felix:
You dipped into the Pro Class with your last round of time quotes. Here is a Rotary powered car in the Dec 2001 issue of Turbo. It is in the Pro Class, it is SIGUEL RACING RX7 it does the 1/4 mi in 7.33sec@179MPH. All with out the need for Pistons or GIGANTIC C.I. There is somthing to be said like I said before for a car that can produce these time with a engine under 150 C.I. So congrats we have sombody in here who could find a few V8s that could do somthing. Let those Camaro guys and Mustang guys take what ever ford or GM has to offer under 150 C.I. and produce a run of 7.33@179MPH or better and then I will be impressed.

Steel: Well all I can say is it's nice to find another true Rotary fan in this RX7 club. Amen
I do recall stating earlier that I do not belive the Rotary is the fastest nor do I belive a V8 is the fastest. I do believe a Rotary with its 1.3 liters however can make a V8 look pretty stupid. I mean where I come from everyone thinks C.I. so if I do lose with my rotary that was expected because to them I have a huge disadvantage with so small a motor. However when I win the V8 guy looks pretty stupid and his car looks like crap for losing to such a small jap motor. It is also for this reason I have had people not want to race my RX with there V8 powered cars because the shame that will fall upon them if they should lose. SO once again I feel that C.I. per C.I the rotary kicks ass and the V8 with its huge amount of C.I. makes it a worthy competitor for the rotary and this will probably be grudge match that will continue for somtime. Also where in a Magazine can I find a V8 RX7 and time that it is running in the1/4? I mean I dont wanna call anyone a liar but I do not like just taking sombodys word for this sort of stuff.
One more thing to Felix Wankel, could you please post the sizes of the engines and the HP and Torque each of those car had on that earlier post of yours? I mean thats what I did just so people could see the engine size and HP and Torque output. I just find it interesting to see what recipie some people are using to get there car they chose to run the times they ran. Either way thanks for your post. I found it very educational. I doubt I will ever pull up to one of these guys or anyone like them as I am guessing most of there cars are trailered in. I know SOME of those where under the original street class but I doubt most of them drove in there raced and then drove away from the track after, I think they are probably trailer queens. Anyway once again you to have failed to persuade me over to the V8s argumenbt as I am still seeing the rotarys running right in stride with them. Thanks Again! Over and Out

One more thing about size and #s. China has a lot more people and a lot bigger military than our own. According to the V8 guys does this mean we would lose a war to China? Or would the U.S with its technological advances and strategies payoff if that ever were to come about? My personal opinion I think our smaller smarter and more technologial advanced force would win. I could be wrong thats just my thought.
By the way no need to tell me this is far off the original topic I KNOW. Just thought it would be a good comparison on #s and size VS. Technology and design. I could be wrong maybe China would whoop us. I just have a feeling they would not. I think they would be a bitch to fight but I think when the dust settled our smaller, lighter and more technology advanced force would prevail.

A LS1 6spd Fbody would most cetainly smoke a Series 5 NA RX-7 (off the line). Any engine will wear out over time, even piston engines! Do you expect your rotary to run forever?

Isaac

How to fix the wiper switch problem is well documented and inexpensive. I figure most people are too lazy to fix it though, I know I have been.

Isaac

Ok I did mention he did have a full racing beat exhaust including header, cold air intake and so on. Also there is a vicious rumour going around that the RX7 may be making a come back. I saw it on rotarynews.com If the Camaro was such a good deal why did it disapprear from the market? Why does the Camaros resale plummet? When I look at resale value I see a 93 RX holding up better than 93 Camaro.
As far as 88 SE is concerned with his electrical problem of the wiper switch, he brings it up as if Mazda had some serious problems with their electronics. Ok your car is 15 yrs old not 3 yrs old your gonna have some problems SE. Buy a new harness and switch as thats what Mazda Trix recommends doing and they sell both the switch and harness.
Also Blacksport have you ever driven a LS1 Camaro? If so you would know they hook up like shit. They are not as well balanced as the RX7. True I may not be the best driver either. Has anyone in here priced out a new LS1? Or how about a used one? For the HP it delivers I do not find that whole swap worth it.
It is still funny watching people pit the latest in V8 Technology against 8-17 yr old rotarys. Does anyone know how much the new rotary weighs? I don't and would be interested in knowing. I think people in here should look at the new renisis motor for a swap before a 8cyl. They are already working on turbo setups for them right now.
I kindly ask to the V8 lovers to please sell your RX7s before you start butchering them to a Rotary lover. Go buy yourselves your Camaro or Mustang you defend so highly on this RX7Club. You people come into the RX7 website and talk about your V8s.
There is nothing special about a V8 RX7, they will join the ranks of such other cars I have seen with a V8 plopped in them. I have seen the following with V8s: Chevette, S-10s, Fiero and so on. It is no longer that original to put a V8 in anything.
Also one more time for the RECORD, YES THE LS1 did WIN over the 91 N/A is all I said is it was really nothing to brag about considering how much newer my Camaro was and how much bigger the LS1 is than the Rotary. Please Black Sport read the whole post. I am impressed with the Rotary. I don't see why in a RX7 website that says somthing on the homepage of being the largest gathering of rotary enthusiasts why I feel like I have to constantly keep comming back to this thread to defend this motor. I will say it once again yes V8s are powerfull and fast but they do it in such a Neandrathal way through sheer size alone. While the Rotary along with a few 4 bangers can get damn close to the same in HP somtimes even higher in HP, when I see that I know the person or car company who designed and built that motor have some real smart people working for them.
Lets flip this coin and pit a new 4 banger up against a 87 vette the 87 Vette had 240 HP. The 84 only had 205 HP these are 350 V8s. Now lets look at the 2.0 4 banger in the S2000 N/A 240 HP. Now the V8 guys can see what I mean about pitting a 97 or newer LS1 VS a 91 Rotary. THe new Mustang still with 4.6 liter only has 260 HP, 20 more HP than the S2000 and yet it is not as fast as the 2000. Granted people will mod the 4.6 and get probably around 300+ some even more. On the other hand there is turbo kit now available for the S2000 so puts thingsright back to square one. So keep on arguing I don't care but the fact is for all practical purposes of building a sweet handling car and good street racer it is tough to beat new 4 cyl and any turbo rotary. With the renisis comming out some V8s in stock form are gonna have a hell of a time beating the new N/A renisis in stock form.
Why does everyone in here think they can out do the original designers of the RX7? I mean if Mazda thought a V8 would be best in their car they would put it in there. For all streetable purposes I feel you can get the same realisitic HP form the rotary as you can the V8. Unless your a pro drag racer and your daily job consists of doing nothing more than building your car the rotary will remain very competive against the V8 crowd. The usual joe on the street who did all the easy mods such as swap heads, intake manifold, cam, headers and so on. With a turbo you just buy a bigger turbo upgrade the fuel and so on and crank up the boost and let her rip. Well I am sure I will have to come back in here now to keep defending "the little engine that can" whoop up on some V8 ass.

usmcjsy:

You are forgeting one little thing in your uninformed CI arguement: Turbocharging negates CI comparisons.

What you are in effect saying is that a stock TURBOCHARGED 1.3L rotary comes CLOSE(if the boost is increased) to the power of a stock NA 5.7 V8. Of course you will now bring up the Renesis...right? An engine that is about at it's power limit at least if it's kept NA. On the other hand you have the V8 (LS1 for example) that can still make hundreds more HP over stock without boost when modified. If you turbocharged a V8 at the SAME BOOST as the compared rotary the V8 will ALWAYS come on top. For example a V8(setup for turbocharging) running 10PSI will make more power than a 1.3L rotary running 10PSI given they use the same turbo. Your "1.3L rotary is better than 5.7L V8" arguement just got blown out the water. :)

You say that, then bring up Siguel's car. If you want to start talking about full tube chassis dragsters, I'll post some of John Force's timeslips. His car is as much a "Mustang" as Siguel's is an "RX-7".

I don't see any rotary cars in the 4 second/300 mph range...

Oh ya lingenfelters Twin Turbo Vette got smoked by the RX7.COM FD both cars are street legal and retain stock interior and so on. Once again I am right. Please tell me where I can find a N/A 5.7 liter with "HUNDERDS" more HP. I wanna know where I can find this. Anyone tell me where I can call or where I can go on the net or what Magazine I can find this in. Also what would be the life span of a High boosted V8? I still have no awnswer to why if V8s rule why does not every single racer use them? And the argument was not HP I said the rotary can run with the V8 powered cars. Read back about 3 of my posts ago I posted some literature. The RX7.COM FD was still faster than some cars with 200 more HP in some cases and I also posted where one could find the information I posted. I dont care about just HP or just the 1/4 mi. I drive my car on the street for enjoyent I like throwing it into some tight curves well above the suggested speed limit. The Rotary has proven to be able to run with the big dogs in every aspect. Also like I said earlier if they ever where to make a 5.7L rotary you guys would be bowing down to it. I dont know the future of the rotary and what Mazda will do with it or if they will ever increase its size. If they do increase the size or even double it to a 2.6L your 5.7 would be in a world of hurt my friend. Also where did you get your time machine? I mean you must have one to say the rotary will never be able to squeeze out anymore HP and its at the end of the rope. Do you have a inside edge at Mazda? Do you know they will never increase its size? I feel they will do whatever they need to do to remain competitve. For MOST people who want a NEW V8 powered car they have basically 1 choice the Mustang. I see the RX8 being fully competitve with that. Ya there is still the Ol Vette but most people I know cannot afford a new Vette. The V8s are droppin and the Rotary is commin back again I like these changes. So I guess your argument will be "Blown Away" as soon as Mazda decides to lay the "Smack Down" and make a 2.6 liter Rotary and put a end to this. Imagine a 500HP N/A 2.6 Liter I like the sound of that. So please by all means Mizeru tell us where we can buy these LS1 with Hundreds more HP N/A or please tell us all the secret recipe and the price tag. You said you could get hundreds more HP yet from a N/A LS1 I wanna know how?
I have one yocal in here saying there is 700HP N/A 350s running around on the street I ask where to find it and I have heard from him never again. Now I wanna know how to get HUNDREDS more HP N/A from the LS1. the LS1 is already over 300 HPso your saying with no means of forced induction you are gonna get Hundreds more HP so you will have at least 200 HP more than GM got in stock form. The only way I see this is NOS and you can do this with the RENISIS.
Remember if Mazda ever decided to double up on size on the Renisis they may lose some HP per CI in the size upgrade but would probably be between 450-500HP with a N/A 2.6 Liter stock!

usmcjsy:

How many 400HP NA no nitrous rotaries are there? none that I know of...could be wrong

How many 400HP NA no nitrous V8s are there?
ten of thousands :)

Felix oh Felix, I do not see any 4 Sec 300MPH cars on the street either. Once again I am talking cars I can afford and cars I can drive and cars us common folk can drag race on low traffic highway late at night. But you are right I do not see any rotarys in that club. By the way is your car in there? Will it be with the V8 transplant? If your RX7 with a V8 does the 1/4 in 4 sec at 300MPH Man I will do it. Until though I see street driven cars with V8s beating the rotary every single time and out like 3 car lengths between em, Im a Rotor Head!

You are right. Is all I am saying if Mazda was to decide to build a Rotary 1/2 the size of most V8s they would have the 400+ Hp with 2.6 liters and N/A stock. The size of the rotatry you are picking on is 1.3 liters your V8s are at least 4.6 liters. Most common one the 5.7. You V8 guys better pray that Mazda just does not get the idea of a 2.6 Liter rotary using todays technology. The size of engine you guys are lookinf at is 4 to 5 times bigger and your getting in stock form from the mustang 10 HP in the LS1 in the Camaro about 70. I guess I dont see the bragging rights. That like putting to guys on weight bench one guy weighing 300lbs the other one weighing 120 and the guy weighing 120 only benching 10 less lbs

usmcjsy:

V8 RX-7 10.05 @ 132 mph

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/mazdarx8.html

Still I wanna know where I can find the N/A 350 with 700 HP as Bogus File had stated he seen. And I still wanna know what needs to be done for the over 500HP with the LS1 N/A? Still want to know. I still get Hot Rod and Car Craft and have yet to see a N/A 350 with 700 HP. As far as the LS1 Jon Lingenfelter and his Twin Turbo C5 he manged to get 650 HP with a Twin Turbo set up. I dont see how one is gonna get even 550 N/A maybe I think it can be done but at what price? I mean Jon Lingenfelter is to Chevy what Peter Farrel is to Mazda. So I will be waiting patiently for this info as someday I may buy a Mustang or Camaro again just for the crude novelty of the car. It is fun to listen to the V8 and it is fun having the low end torque but its in crude way it just does not seem refined likethe RX7 and rotary.

That is impresive no lie thats movin, but however I can get that with the rotary. Go to RX7.COM and check out there drag car that is street legal and runs in the street class. Not Xtreme Street or Pro Street but street.

A well built, 10K rpm up PP port or massive bridgeport motor, properly tuned, should make 350-400 hp to the flywheel, on gasoline.

Although I give you credit for stating you could be wrong, you do have to know acknowledge that you are arguing out of ignorance.

As an aside.... Pineapple Racing sells "ready-to-go" 4-rotors for $8500 USD which they claim make 850 hp in NA trim.

I took the liberty of looking it up again so no one has to go to that terrible rotary site. Here is the time for the street legal FD by RX7.COM 9.62sec@144mph. All with 1.3 liters. To me someone who can do more with less is more respectable than some one who can do the same thing with a lot more.

usmcjsy:

Answer to previous question: "hundreds of HP over stock NA LS1". Excuse the price in this instance because of the 50th AE and limited edition stuff. The price is not a reflection of the mods.

http://www.corvettethunder.com/car-corv.htm

Thank You Scathcart. Finally sombody letting us know where they are getting there information and where to find it for ourselves. I also do not claim to know all, but I will post where I get my information so others can read it or whatever for themselves. I appreciate when other do the same. As there is a lot of people who are just pulling shit out there ass with nothing to support there claims. I to argue out of ignorance but it is just so much fun:) Thanks again for the info from Pineapple racing. Very Impressive #s indeed on N/A I am gonna do another ignorant thing and assume it is 5.2 liter rotary? Anyway how many V8s are doing this with about 5 liters N/A? Maybe there is some but I do not know of any and once again if someone says there is where can I find this motor?

usmcjsy:

Also keep in mind that the V8 RX-7 I posted before was built by a "joe blow". Not someone with an entire business sponsoring him. To quote you:

"To me someone who can do more with less is more respectable than some one who can do the same thing with a lot more."

The V8 RX-7 guy did more with a whole lot less money. :)

Thank You Mizeru but last I checked the LS1 is not a 427, And this 427 was putting out 500 HP which is good. The LS1 however is a wee bit smaller. Also to put out the hundreds of HP more it would at least have to be 200 HP more which this 427 was not even putting out 200HP more than a LS1. I belive the LS1 has 320 HP? Anyway I know its over 300. Thanks agin for the post though.

Ok the guidstrand site you just sent me to and the Lingenfelter Twin Turbo vette do not out do the Rotary Performance FD and the packages for those 2 cars costs more than the whole FD and upgrades. I belive the Guldstrand site saif the package not including the car was $4X,XXX and the Lingenfelter again not including the car again was $5X,XXX. But ya Kudos to the guy doing it on his own.

Really agian I like to see the Joe Blow beat the rich guy! As I am a joe myself.

I've waded into this late, and there have been some very good, very valid points raised. And some utter rubbish, too...
Anyway, here goes...

I am a rotary nut. I haven't been without a rotary of some sort since just after I first got my licence. Why?

*Rotaries are cheap power. My FC is putting out about 400hp at the FW. Fully rebuilt, with ALL accesories, the replacment cost is about Aus$4500, assuming I fit it to the car myself. It may be different in the US, but over here I'd pay that for the short motor if I was building a NA 350 Chev to get 400hp. It may be possible to build a low boost stockish Turbo Chev with 400hp for $4500, but I doubt it.

* They go faster than their power figures suggest. My old car was a 260ish HP Bridge port Cosmo. It had grunt galore, and was a damn fast car. The wide rev range and flat torque curve meant that any non-rotor heads that got into it would always guess that it had 350ish hp...

* The motors are little and light. I like medium/small cars that handle well. I also like cars that go fast. A dirty big V8 will bugger the handling. An dirty big ALLOY V8 will cost me more than I can afford so is totally irrelevant to my mind.

*They're different. "Everybody" has or wants a V8. *yawn* I like the fact that my car is different to the norm. I like the fact that rotaries are not considered Yobbo-mobiles.

* I like Mazdas. We're blessed with a good supply of mid 70s Mazdas here. While they're incredibly dated nowdays, I personally believe that they are great cars, and I love 'em. This is me being as illogical as everyone who likes old cars is. So sue me.

But, having said all of that, WHO CARES?!

Holden recently announced they are going to release a very small number of Monaros with 427s in them. They're going to be seriously trick cars, with spanky carbon-fibre intakes, CNC billet alloy suspension, and a correspondingly large price tag (AUS$200,000). There was a big debate on performanceforums.com about it -short version was that a few blokes got so wound up that it was "just a Commodore with a big motor" that they completely over-looked that it have lots of power, lots of brakes and lots of suspension, and so Commodore or not, its gonna be a damn fast car...
(www.performanceforums.com - have a look in "The Pool Room" if you want to check it out).

I've made my decision, others can make theirs. There's no answer to who's right and who's wrong - just differences of opinion.

Get over it.

Maybe you guys should learn some tolerance for other points of view?

[/ghandi]





And to wade into some of the less than accurate things said previously...

The fastest semi-street drag cars over here are mostly rotary powered. Certainly the rotary ones are closer to being road legal than the V8s.

And no production 13B based twin rotor will make much (any!) more than 340hp without forced induction of N2O. And those that do are BIG dollar motors, with intake manifolds costing over AUS$8000... Sorry, sad but true. Unless your dyno is optomistic! 300hp is realistic with a real-world budget.

And how anyone can make a comment about Renesis motors "being at their limit" is beyond me! Has anyone blown on up yet?! No, I didn't think so. Has anyone even worked one yet?

I am sorry but I realize on my calculation on the 4 rotor I may have miscalculated. I am assuming it is a 2.6 liter? I made a mathematical error on that one. So that means 850 H.P. from a N/A 2.6 Liter? That is simply amazing. It will be pretty tough for the V8 crowd to crack that nut. But I am sure we will see sombody else come on here and tell of a 350 with 900 HP N/A and I am sure at less cost, and of course they will not tell us how to get that HP or where we can buy such a motor already built.
Sorry again I do not know why I was thinking a 5.2 liter when you said 4 rotor, I now relaize it would probably be a 2.6 duh 2x1.3+2.6 LOL :)

Thanks for the support of the Rotary mate! And good day to ya!

Then what does Siguel's car have to do with anything?

What makes you think I have a V8 RX-7? Actually I sold all of my RX-7s (all rotary powered too) but one, and its for sale now. I'll be kind of glad to be distanced from some of these closed-minded rotary bigots. Yes, there are lots of fast rotaries. There are also lots of faster V-8s.

PS, the Lingenfelter cars still have a full interior. Maybe you should tell Ari his is missing from the seats back? :)

Can you be a bit more definitive in your term "production based"?
Also, what kind of dyno are your referring to?

You're not leaving us on the forum, are you? We've been losing a lot of the knowledgable and realistic people on the forum lately; it'd be a shame to lose another.

What kind of car are you going with now? Something a little more reliable? (remembering you have a child; you had forgotten a word in a thread on Nitrous Oxide b/c you were holding your kid while typing.)

Hope you stick around. It was cool to see another enthusiast that respected ALL of the other cars for what they are. Seems most of the V8 guys on here are hardcore chevy fans, and knock anything but bowties. Seems a little hypocritical too, since they usually tend to bash the rotary-lovers at the same time for liking a single brand of engine...

*sigh* Maybe its about time I left too.

The MoTeC engine dyno. Sorry don't know what type it is.
We have a VERY competitive class here called "Improved Production" where the rules for the rotaries are basically "stock motor can be a PP, but if you put a 13B in, you must stay side-port". The light weight of the RX-3 and the good aerodynamics of the 1st Gen RX-7s make them THE cars to have (ruling out the RX-4 and -5s with their factory 13Bs and therefore legal 13B PPs).
These guys go nuts with their cars - they're running $10k dog boxes, monster brakes etc.
SelectMaz (big race-car / Mazda workshop) was advertising 330hp BPs a few years ago. They were such trick, custom things that they could not quote me on one properly (nor totally promise that it would even make the full 330hp - just that it "would be competitive").
The long bare motor was going to be ~$10,000, the injection (MoTeC!) was about $5k, and the intake was $5k+. A mate was more recently quoted $7-11k by a different workshop for an intake of similar calibre. Exhausts are pretty full-on too - all of the usual tricks, but they've gotta be quiet enough too... So $1500+ for one of those...
In comparison, my old 13B BP cost me ~$1000, add $500 Weber and $500 exhaust and it was putting about 260hp.... The cost difference should show how far into the area of diminishing returns the IP guys are. None of them even dream of claiming they're making more than 330hp (I used the 340hp figure just in case there'd been some more developments!).

And by production based, I basically mean a 13B. You got something better? :P

I wasn't sure if you meant stock ports or what (production based isn't a common term up here), b/c you can make more than 340 hp with a monster bridge or a PP without going forced induction.