OK, I'm still thinking of either a PP12a or a 302 windsor for my FB race car.

If I go 302 I am planning on a few things.

I want it the weigh the same as a 12a complete with transmission

What is the stock 302 weight with accessories and trans compared to the 12a and trans.

How much weight would I save with aluminum heads?

What is the lightest stock block weight I can acheive?

I am not looking at crazy HP, I want the car to be extremely light so 300 to 350 hp would be seriously quick anyway.

Car is aimed for road events such as Targa Newfoundland.

 

I am doing the same thing. I don't know the answer to all your questions, but aluminum heads do save about 50 pounds. The 302 ready to run, minus fluids, with aluminum heads is about 425lbs. A T-5 weighs about 85. Block weight is within 10 lbs over the period of production, I think, so it is not something I have worried about. Mexico blocks are supposedly heavier and stronger.

I am interested in what you are thinking as I am doing the same thing. Maybe we can put our heads together and both get there better. See my website in my sig. It needs an update as I have been working on the car more, but you should be able to get a general idea of what I am thinking.

BTW, Targa Newfoundland is a dream for me.

 

I'm getting ready to do the same swap here, but for my daily driver. However, I had heard from a few sources that the difference between the cast iron and aluminum 5.0 heads were 20lbs. I could be wrong. I'm not sure about the blocks weight.

Mike

 

Might it be 20 lbs per head?

 

^^^^
Ah, sounds like that could be why my calculation is off. Thanks for the correction and that is even better news. I figured there could be some differences (+/- 5lbs.) between manufactures of aftermarket aluminum heads depending on deck thickness and casting.

Mike

 

30 lbs per head.

 

So how does this compare to the 12a engine's weight?

I know I should search but I figure you guys probably know or you wouldn't be in here looking...lol

My aim with "just" 350 hp is to be as light as possible, I want a fast nimble handling machine, balanced with radical suspension, which is being developed as we speak.

I want to spank the over $100,000 cars like Ferraris, Porsches and the like with a low budget handling package.

V8Mongrel, definately like to take to you about your car.

 

I am all ears!

 

You will have to spend a fair amount of money to spank the 100k club with power and handling. Most have well over 400 hp and are some of the finest handling machine ever built. Sure you could beat them on the drag strip but on other tracks you will have to spend money to do both well.

Also why not go with a 351 or one of the Chevy motor. An aluminium small block Chevy crate motor can be had for $5000 and out box with 405 HP

 

You will have to spend a fair amount of money to spank the 100k club with power and handling. Most have well over 400 hp and are some of the finest handling machine ever built. Sure you could beat them on the drag strip but on other tracks you will have to spend money to do both well.

Also why not go with a 351 or one of the Chevy motor. An aluminium small block Chevy crate motor can be had for $5000 and out box with 405 HP

 

351 and Chev are too heavy, I want minimal weight to be competitive, and never say never, handling is just a matter fo development, that part I can get worked out, the HP is nothing most porsche's have less than 350 hp and they do well even with the engine hung out over the rear axle.

Power to weight is the only serious consideration in the build then developing the handling into the car I want it to be, trust me it can be done.

My goal is to get as close to 2000 lbs with 350 Hp and phenominal handling, that type of package worked with the Shelby Cobra.

 

Low, light and sticky tires can embarass a lot of bigger money and more powerful cars. 350hp should be PLENTY if you are around 2000lbs.

 

That's the plan, and why I'm looking for the lightest combo I can find at a reasonable price range, not bargain basement but not crazy $ either.

 

have you thought about a 2.3t with an alum head?

 

Turbo 2.3 with aluminum head. Why not just use a Rolls-Royce engine with gold valve covers?

 

just wanted to throw in that you can get 300 hp from a stock short block with the holley systemax II kit, 77mm maf, 75mm tb, 30lb injectors, and pullies. they systemax kit has aluminum heads, too.

 

you might want to consider the LS1 engine, aluminum block and heads are avaible in the camaro/firebird/trans am or corvette, with a simple cam, ls6 intake and longtubes you are looking at 400rwhp easily

 

The LS series is very attractive, however is a lot more money. Also, I don't think that the T-5 will bolt up to one, leaving only the T-56 as a junkyard manual trans. While not such a bad thing, the T-56 is, in the opinion of most, far superior to the T-5 in every respect, IINM, the T-56 is almost 40 pounds heavier than the T-5. Also, the deck height of the LS is greater than that of the 302, shifting the weight of the heads and intake upward. While the plastic manifolds migt make up for this, it is just something to consider.

 

You can get 450hp with 52lb injectors and a Holset turbo, but so what. There's power for a dyno run or a dragstrip pass, and then there's power you can lean on for minutes/hours at a time with no letup. Turbo engines very very rarely fall into the latter and they cost kilobucks more than a larger naturally aspirated engine.

 

WTF? Where did this come from? The guy mentioned an easy and available way to get 300 hp out of a 302 while adding the aluminum heads that cut weight. Are you claiming that a stock bottom end 302 with the Holley Systemax isn't going to last? He said nothing about turbos, so why bring that up?

 

I had him confused with the other "parts hanger", mention of aluminum heads threw me off.

Reading back, you don't need any "system" to get 300hp, it's trivially easy. "Kits" are just a nice way of spending lots of money with little return.

There are much better heads on the market, for one. For another, hate to say it but it's much *much* cheaper to go with a Victor intake manifold and a decent carb than to go to standalone EFI...

 

yeah yeah, I guess a 1500$ head on a 200$ motor would be pretty silly

edit: It would be light tho hehe
edit2: with aluminum heads ,a good cam, a decen tinduction and exuast 300hp should be no prob with a 302

 

OK, I am kind of lost as to what motor you are talking about here, so forgive me if I am wrong, but it is my opinion and the opinion of many others that there is no better place to spend money on a 302 than heads.

No prob, is an understatement, but you are 100% correct. I think there is an AFR heads test somewhere with a 100% stock bottom end (cam included) with a good carb, intake and headers, when the AFRs were added made 400 hp on an engine dyno.

Did I mention spend money on the heads?

 

[/QUOTE]

He was making mention of the 2.3 Turbo, which weighs very similar to the 5.0 version of the 302 due to its highly beefed block.

 

My options are a 12a PP or 302, I am thinking of the 302 due to torque, reliablility, weight, size, and easy obtainable hp to my requirements (300 to 350 hp)

Number one consideration is weight.

Which is why I originally requested the weight of a aluminum head 302 windsor and the 12a with accessories.

Turbo is not an option due to the relative complexity and reliability issues.