They are $2700 from http://www.n-tech.net/ -- it is (93-95) big brake kit #1.

I should have some pics of my whole car soon. People keep asking for them, but I am too lazy to go take some. My car looks stock besides the wheels and now the brakes. I got the wheels from ARD T2 -- contact him for sizing and pricing information. He knows what fits and will give you an excellent price.

-Max

Looks good. How close are the calipers to your spokes? I test fitted my C2s on and I can't wrap my fingers around the spoke to mount the rim now...awkward to handle a heavy 18" wheel/tire combo w/o grabbing the spokes. :(

BTW, no news on fluid so consider it not included. And no news on torque values neither. What did you torque the bolts to?

I figgur...

Bolts (bracket to hub) 65 lb-ft
Bolts (bracket to caliper) 55-60 lb-ft (the aluminum may strip)
Banjo bolt 15 lb-ft
Brake Line 10 lb-ft

Am I close?

There is a ton of room between the spokes and the caliper. No clearance problems grabbing the spokes. I haven't measured.


It hasn't been long, so we might still hear an update on the fluid.


bracket to hub carrier - 60 ft-lbs

This should be the same as stock. I was too lazy to look it up, but I think I am within 10 ft-lbs.

caliper to bracket - 30 ft-lbs

This one I have no idea. 60 seems like way too much. You can't torque a small bolt into aluminum and expect it to hold a lot of torque.

hose - 12.5 ft-lbs

This one I got from:
http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/cali...?family=CP5200


-Max

Might as well ask what happens when the $0.35 check valve in the stock RX-7's vacuum line fails... :)

Actually, the vacuum pump is only intended to bridge the gap between the 10-11 in. Hg. that the engine will pull (and that's just an estimate, it may do better, but I'm just going with worst case here) and the 17-21 in. Hg. that would be ideal for a power braking system. If the power vacuum pump fails, for whatever reason, then braking power would be reduced, but not eliminated. You'd still be able to stop the car, assuming that you didn't run out of road. :)

People use these pumps all the time, and they're standard equipment on many cars. I'd be more worried about my Meziere electric water pump going out, and considering the mileage my car will likely get, that's not something I'll have to worry about any time soon. :)

Instead of a dedicated vacuum pump:

Since Diesel engines lack a throttle, they don't produce vacuum. Therefore, many modern turbodiesel cars have alternators which contain a vacuum pump supplying the brake booster. Saves you an extra device and the wiring that goes with it.

Bernd

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I have to use a special "10 o'clock" housing single-wire alternator to clear the steering rack and hood, so I don't have the option of being choosy about my alternator. And it's already purchased.

The nice thing about the pumps is that they only kick in when needed. In other words, they maintain a constant 21 in. Hg. (or whatever) in the vacuum system and only kick in if pressure "rises" above that level. :)

N-Tech Big brakes installed!
 

Like a dozen others on the forum, I've purchased the www.n-tech.net AP Racing big brake kit. 13" rotors, 4-pot AP 5200 calipers. The only modifications I've had to make on my late production 95 (lots of small things on the car are different from previous years) was trimming the top and the bottom of the backing plates near the top and bottom of the AP caliper. Otherwise everything was a direct bolt-on. I upgraded to the 929 master cylinder (again courtesey of N-Tech) and a braided clutch line as well. Out of the three, the clutch line presented the most problems! I ended up busting the hard metal line as the top clutch line fitting refused to budge. Luckily Nick had one off of his white third gen which I used.

First impressions? Simply amazing. My stock brakes were pretty warped due to ahem, a few track events. I have Hawk street pads in there at the moment and I can definitely say that the car needs better tires. The Kumho 712's are great in the wet and for a moderately modified car, but with 400 flywheel hp and big brakes, it's time to move on to something a little more capable. I can easily engage the ABS at any moment, and with the 929 master cylinder there's instant bite with light pedal pressure. I find myself looking in the rear view mirror before braking to make sure a "blue hair" (or q-tip as I like to refer to them as) isn't following too close. As Max said with his SE37K's, the SE37A's have TONS of clearance. I could easily fit a 15" rotor (thicker too) and much larger caliper to boot.

Thanks to Nick and Sergio for their "technical" assistance (and laughter) during the installation well into the night. Can't wait for that first track event!

So I take it you punted on designing your own kit? :)

Why do you think i'm trying to get rid of the check valve :)

Ok, I didn't know it was in conjunction with a line from the engine. I still wonder why you havn't gone with the ballance bar with correctly sized master cylinders for your application?

How do those water pumps do in terms of reliability? If I remember correctly they make a kit for the rx-7. If the reliability is good it sounds like it could be a good idea, no cavitation, constant speed, run after car is turned off...

Matt

Maybe, possibly. The place I was working with may still be interested in doing it with a Porsche GT2 Evo caliper and 380mm disks (same disks that come on the McLaren F1). Thing is, most of those kits will be heavier per corner. I needed something fairly soon so I went with Nick's kit which is well made and works exceptionally well. I highly recommend his kit, especially with a 929 master cylinder. I'll be balancing out the rear with a set of the 99 spec RS brakes.
Michel

I'm not using a dual master cylinder setup because the stock system is adequate (with the 929 master cylinder) for my purposes, and those that have switched to a dual master cylinder setup have had to eliminate their ABS to eliminate problems revealed with the elimination of the power brake booster.

It would also require running pads with a higher coefficient of friction to improve "bite", according to Mark, and that's not something I'm willing to do on a street car. I definitely don't want squealing or dust, and I'm not willing to replace my rotors every time I change the oil. :)

I believe the Meziere electric pump is rated at 2,500-2,700 hours of use. If you used your car an average of 2 hours a day, that's an expected lifespan of about 3.5 years at the 2,500 hour rating.

When will you hit the track with the new system? I'll be pestering you for a review, since you have headed down the route I am considering. :)

Looks like the replacement rotor prices aren't too bad (from Nick). I thought it would be worse than that....

I am hoping it'll be April 7, although I may be too busy potographing the event. We'll see. I'm also in desperate need of better rubber. The car is just so capable now that the Kumho's don't seem to be the "smart" choice. I may try their new max performance dry tire however.
Michel

artowar2, I am local to you (I see Willow Springs in your avatar pic!) and have the same 13" AP-4 brakes. I won't be tracking my car again until June (need an engine rebuild) but you can check them out at some event after that if you are still thinking about it. I usually run with Wurth, TCC, or NASA. I am still driving the car now, and will probably be at an upcoming SoCal7s event if you'd like to come out to that.

Did you ask Nick about the replacement rotor prices? If you are going on the $130 price that I guessed, I could be way off. I was just thinking that the prices are probably similar to the RS front rotors. But I haven't actually checked the prices, so don't take that as gospel. I am very interested if you know the real price (too lazy to ask myself, I guess ;)).

-Max

Max, we've never met, but we do know some of the same people. I live up in the Valley. I used to go to 3 or 4 TracQuest events per year, but in the last couple of years I only managed to go to a couple of events a year. I did try a Wurth event earlier this year at Buttonwillow. It may be a while before I can get to the track again though-- we're expecting a baby in the next week or so, and he's going to be eating up some of that free time (until I can get him to hand me tools...)

Heh, I was wondering if anyone would recognize my avatar. That's me before I got the new suspension :)

And yep, I tagged you (and Manny) to pester as well. I'm curious about the whole front/rear bias thing, and I am hoping that going with just an AP front kit is okay. If I'm going to need to upgrade the rears and MC as well, then I want to know before I get started.

Oh, about the rotor prices-- I think I made a mistake. Nick has the brake kit prices on his website, and some replacement rotor prices on the same page. When I posted earlier, I thought they were replacement rotors for the AP kits, but now I think he's talking about stock rotor replacements. Oops.

I'll ask him the next time I see him. Naturally, AP replacement rotors will be more expensive, perhaps $300 or so but that's a guess. I'm sure Coleman AP-style rotors would be more affordable however.
Michel

Max,

Replacement rotors (13") for the N-Tech/AP Racing kit are around $160 each. I'm guessing this is just for the rotor so you would have to remove the hats and replace the rotors yourself.

A 330mm x 32mm AP disc is about $400 from Brits. That's ONE. It's the only reason I haven't bought an AP brake kit from M2 or N-Tech. Brembo's are the same price. I cannot understand why someone doesn't make a brake kit with nice calipers (AP 5200's work) but have discs that are more around $150. The 5200 calipers are "only" $400 each. I refuse to believe it costs as much to make a disc as a caliper. The caliper will at least last a 100,000 miles (or more).

Jim,
The feedback I've gotten from Brad and the local
(Boston area) owner who are now using the Wilwood
NDL 4-piston calipers and my adapter bracket with '99
rear rotors is that it's working great. And you're quite
right, they'd been battling balance problems for quite
a while.

If anyone's interested (Jim ;-), I've got these adapter
brackets in stock at $160/set. They're made from *real*
aircraft aluminum (7050-T7451, chosen for it's good
elevated temp properties), and are light, strong, and
protected with a clear hard anodize (Ti-like color).

This is for the hard-core racer, as the NDL caliper has
no provision for a parking brake, and is probably best
for those that have gone to manual brakes, as it may be
overly sensitive with power assist. Some mild cutting of
the mounting ears on the rear upright and on the
caliper must be done for clearance.

David Breslau (dbreslau@mit.edu)
Widefoot Racing

Try contacting Coleman. I'm positive their disks are at a minium half the cost of the AP rotors. It all comes down to actual material and treatment. Not all iron is created equal I guess. I did get a chance to really test the brakes today thanks to a rather stupid U-turn maneuver by the ubiquitus q-tipitis that seem to multiply at will in SW Florida. If not for the brakes, I would have surely needed a new front facia at the very least. Can't wait to hit the track and try them from 140+.
Michel

I think our kits came with the "AP-style" Coleman rotors, so that keeps the price reasonable for replacements, while keeping the door open to get AP rotors if you win the Lotto or find the Coleman rotors lacking in some way. $160 isn't bad, as they should last a lot longer than the stock rotors did. I am sure that is just for the rotor and that you'll have to re-use the hat. The size is 330 x 28. I would guess that the hats themselves are more than $160 each.

-Max

I just found some pads on clearance if anyone is looking for some:
http://www.essexparts.com/clearance/...?cat=BrakePads

HB110 and PFC776 pads will fit the AP calipers we got.

-Max

Just talked to Nick....there are Coleman replacements avalible, but the originals that came with the kit are not Colemans. Something of higher quality apparently. I'll know more shortly.
Michel

Does anyone have/know the location of pictures of these parts?

No pics.

The parts are all available from Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development. They're completely stock parts from a 1999 Mazda FD Rx7 Type RS.

I'm still awaiting one LF brake backing plate, and the hard lines for the fronts. I haven't done anything with the spare tire yet...