There was a yellow FD on Ebay last week which had a Porsche Brake system which was on the car. He was not including them with the car in order to keep the price down but he was going to sell them seperately from the car for $2000 I think for the brake system.

I agree pagids work well, if youre interested in a "big red" set up give my dad a call maybe he'll suggest something for you.

GT Performance
410-538-3400
ask for Gennady Soykher

Thanks Manny. Good reference!

as for the brake bias, cant you do the mod that robinette did? the brake balancer

What kind of adapters do you need for the porsche brake upgrade. A friend of mine was telling me you can get complete Porsche brake kits, with rotors, clalipers and pad for like $1200

Ummmm, like the guy said above...big red + FC?????????

To do the kit at "cost" would probably be $1200...but everyone effectively doubles the price. Porsche OEM rotors are great and cost effective, about $130 each. Calipers are anywhere from $250 to $350 each. The "ones" to get are not necessarily the Big Reds but the GT2EVO calipers which can be used on 388mm disks. These 388's are the same rotors used for the Mclaren F1, FYI. A set of four(w/hat) weighed about the same as a set of stock RX7 disks. The problem comes in having someone design the bracket to connect the caliper to the suspension and the hat as well. Figure about $250 to $350 for a billet aluminum hat and about $150-$200 for brackets. That doesn't include the cost of designing them. Throw in a set of braided lines as well along with a 929 master cylinder. Oh yeah, brake pads too. :-)

I can attest to the front brake bias. I have N-Tech's AP Racing 4-pot kit ($2700 I believe) and they're simply amazing. They will be balanced out by 2 rear kits he's designing. Both feature RS-sized rear rotors which are slotted and plated. You can either use the RS caliper (w/parking brake) or a Wilwood (w/o parking brake) for track cars. IMO, it's much safer to have a more forward brake bias. Brakes that are too strong in back can make things pretty squirrely while trail braking late into a corner. That being said, the rears with just a front upgrade do need a bit more rear balance. Porsche big red-equipped RX7's brake very well from extreme speeds. The "old" Movit kits were too heavy as they used a steel hat. I believe they've been discontinued. The other option for a hat is to use the Wilwood hat and a spacer for the hub.

I think the M2 4-wheel package was closer to $4k, not $7k. Not bad, but still a lot of dinero!

For FC owners, I know N-Tech does have an FC kit with the AP's. To do a kit with the Porsche setup, you'll have to take the rotor to a qualified machine shop/engineering facility. Sometimes racing shops do outside engineering work and you may want to contact one in your area.
Michel
95RX7

Manny, M2's website quotes $3995 without the parking brake. Did M2 tell you that the parking brake option adds $3000 to the price of the kit?

well, if you really want the 'porsche' brakes, look at this site. ultimate-garage.com.....i do not know if this is the exact link, but this is who sells it. mov-it (move it) is the company that does them, or calls them the 'mov-it' brake kits....

the kit sells for 2795.00, and there is some fabrication to be done. the red caliper does not simply bolt on. i am buying one next month....plus they look great...

-louis

They've discontinued that kit so I'd call to find out availability.
Michel

And for that price you could get N-Tech's AP Racing kit which is 6lbs. lighter per side.
Michel

Track tested '99 FD Rx7 Type RS brakes fr/rr with Porterfield R4E pads fr/rr, Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development SS flex lines, and Motul RBF 600.

Wheels/tires used were:

8.5 fr, 9.5 rr x 17, 42-mm offset SSR Comp
245/45 fr, 275/40 rr x 17 Hoosier R3S03s (3 heat cycles)

9 x 17, fr/rr, 45-mm offset SSR Integral A2
255/40-17 Yokohama AVS Intermediates (3500 miles)

Track is Putnam Park Road Course, 10 turns (clockwise, 8 right-hand, 2 left-hand), 1.77-mile long course. http://www.putnampark.com/

I expected to lap at 9/10th speed potential for 20 to 25 minutes x 3 to 5 sessions per day. The new brake setup did not disappoint. I was finally about to stay out the entire sessions, without pitting in early due to brake fade.

The larger brakes induced ABS early and I ended up flat spotting my front Hoosiers down to the cord despite the ABS electronics on Day 3 (Sunday). FWIW the Hoosiers were fairly used up after Friday's all-day sessions, and so they were questionable on Sunday.

After burning up the Hoosiers, after the first morning Sunday session, I switched to my road wheels/tires (I wanted to test those anyway), and finished the event on the SSR IA2s/Yoko AVS I's.

All day of Day 2 (Saturday) was wet, and I'm happy to report that the Porterfield R4Es are usable brake pads in the wet. The AVS I's provided good straight speeds, but did not provide much cornering stick in the wet, despite the 10-inches of full-tread depth contact patch all around.

In the dry the new AVS I's were about a click or two slower than worn Hoosier R3S03. I did need to get reacclimated to driving the car with same size tires all around, as the car turns in much more easily with power oversteer easily inducible when the secondary turbo reaches full boost.

One of the spectators was monitoring my lap speeds (without my knowledge), and he was surprised to know that I had been lapping at a faster mph average than his buddy (my A-student) in a '99 C5 Vette (quite modified). The spectator was excited to report that I lapped at a 79 mph average, while the C5 lapped at a 78 mph average. Converting mph to laptimes yields: 1:20.658 for me in my R1, and 1:21.692 for my A-student in his trick C5 Vette.

Sadly I was not able to break into the 1:19s (80-mph average) like I'd hoped.

In all the Type RS brakes fills my need for reliable brakes at the track with the convenience of standard parking brakes for daily driving use.

BTW, the Porterfield R4Es ARE usable on the street. I have not switched back to my road pads--EBC Green Stuffs--and I still have the R4Es fr/rr on the car from this past weekend's DE event. The R4Es' cold stopping power is great, and I plan to leave the R4Es on until my next event at Mid Ohio, next Wed/Thurs/Fri (May 8/9/10).

New Hoosier R3S03s are on order, as well as new Porterfield R4Es...can't mess around at Mid Ohio...gotta have brakes and tires for THAT course! http://www.midohio.com/

Thanks fo rthe feedback, I am glad to hear you didn't get rained out all weekend. I will probably end up putting this kit on my car also, what was the total cost? From your last post it sounds like your saying there is still a need for biasing adjustment even with the 99 rear brakes?

Manny that was a great review.
Is it safe to say that the RS brakes can hang at the track?
Did the RS rotors show any signs of warpage?
We all know how easy it is to warp the stock rotors on the track.

Eric,

I actaully don't remember the cost, because the parts are all bought separately from Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development. I can say the RS brakes are MUCH cheaper than M2's 4-wheel brake kit, and the Type RS brakes are every bit is good as the M2 kit, if not better, considering the RS pieces are factory Mazda parts...fitment is ASSURED. No biasing was necessary. The bias was just right IMO.

The RS brakes with racing brake pads, and Motul RBF 600 easily ran with Porsche 993, 996, club race prepped cars. I ran full 25-minute session with no hint of fade...hard brake pedal through the entire 3-day weekend. Rotor warpage is not an issue, even if there was no REAL cool down lap (like when a session is black flagged). FWIW I've never had Mazda rotors (US spec FD rotors) warp on me. The Brembo replacments HAVE, though...

Changing the pads fr/rr was a snap. Took me an hour (I know I'm slow). The new front pads retaining spring is much better design than the US spec retaining spring.

Overall I'm thoroughly satisfied with the RS brake retro-conversion. I highly recommend the RS brakes for FD enthusiasts who need big track brakes but want the daily drivability and convenience of a parking brake.

Best of luck to you all doing the retro-conversion!

For some reason I thought you had the AP kit up front and just did the rear brakes. After reading the first page of your post I see you did the entire kit and also included the cost:D I was thinking about just doing the rear since I already spent all that money on the AP front. I would not be suprised if 99 brakes work just as well or better than the AP kit and all for a lot less money. It's just like computers, if you wait around long enough things keep getting cheaper and better.

Thanks for all the info,

Eric

Eric,

Hmmm, I didn't know the M2 4-wheel kit was an AP kit?

Anyhow, good luck!

Sounds like a great set up!!!! I'm glad there is finally something that doesnt cost a fortune (well its still expensive but not like the "kits")

do you think the Porterfield R4E's are actually better than the greens on the street? I know you said you havent switched back so does that mean that they are in fact better cold than the greens are? Sounds like the R4E's would be a great daily pad in that case. What about rotor wear and dust from the R4E's compared to the greens? Have you had them on long enough to say?

Awsome review, thanks for taking the time

Later,
STEPHEN

Yes, I think the R4Es are quite usable on the road. Cold stopping power is amazing and much better than the EBC Green Stuffs. Stab the brakes and the ABS doesn't have time to work as you'll squeal the front tires on dry pavement!

Dust has been minimal after having cleaned the wheels yesterday. I do expect some dust, as the R4Es are racing pads afterall!

You'll have to be sure to install the factory pad shims with your R4Es, as the R4Es do squeek a little bit. They'd squeal more without the shims, guaranteed! The shims are available from Mazdaspeed Motorsports Develepment as a front pad hardware kit. The rear shims are available by purchasing rear factory pads (sadly enough).

IMO, the R4Es are the ideal pad for FD enthusiasts who are regularly tracking or autocrossing his/her car during the motorsports season, but also drive on the public roads. The daily usability of the R4Es makes pad changes unnecessary at the track.

As for rotor wear, my rotors have been worn smooth, with no deep grooves left behind as would occur with Hawk Black compounds.

Cost is quite reasonable for the R4Es. $208 for a complete fr/rr set.

Porterfield has an explicit warning that the R4Es are not meant for the road. I found that after 3 days of hard use at the track, they are perfectly roadworthy pads, as I've been using them in stop'n'go traffic all this week.

OTOH Hawk Blacks are NOT usable on the public roads (go ahead--ask me how I know):) There is very little cold stopping power, and rotor wear with cold Blacks or Blues is unacceptably HIGH!

Porterfield R4Es need to bedded in, so DO FOLLOW THE BEDDING PROCEDURE, as the R4Es do NOT come pre-bedded like Hawk pads do.

Now that I've discovered the R4Es are roadworthy, I'll probably leave them in during the season, and won't switch back to EBC Green Stuffs until this winter!

For those of you who've tried Performance Friction PF-90s, I'd liken the R4Es to the PF-90 compounds--race pads that are road worthy too!

BTW, my new Hoosiers have already been mounted on my SSR Comps (kept the old rears, as they still have some life left). Still awaiting the new R4E pads--I always run full pad thicknesses for high speed track events, and use the old pads as spares. Mid Ohio awaits:)

Um, yea, I don't think it is either, where did anyone mention the four wheel kit? I mean it looks nice but its expensive and theres no parking break, that won't work for me. I currently have the AP 329MM front kit with stock rear, 929 master, and a bias valve. I have been running it for almost two years now and it works quite well. My setup did not work well without the bias valve though, I am just trying to decide if the 99 rear brakes would be a worth while expense for me. At the momment I am leaning towards yes.

Thanks again,

Eric

If you havent figured out by now, I dont know shit about brakes so please excuse my stupid questions as I've never changed brakes before.

The stock shims your talking about, can they be used over and over or do you have to replace them each time.....hopefully not since you have to by stock pads to get them. I still have all the factory brakes down to the pads that my car rolled off the line with so the shims should be there unless I have to change them each time.

How bad is the squeeking? Is it like a squeel? Is it something you just hear or have to listen for? I'd hate for my friends so always think I need new brakes. lol

Thanks,
STEPHEN

The shims can be reused if they're not too badly corroded.

The noise level's quite low for racing pad. I don't have shims installed in the rear R4Es, but do have them installed up front. The noise is only slightly apparent with the shims in place...you have to listen closely for it.

IMHO, if you don't plan to drive hard on the track, or autocross on long courses, I suggest you get the EBC Green Stuffs.

The R4Es are meant for endurance racing and HOT lapping over multiple 25-minute sessions.

If you never plan to do either, then don't bother with the R4E pads. Stay with the EBC Green Stuffs.

Having just switched back from EBC Greenstuff to Hawk HPS I can say either is an excelent choice for the street and can stand Light track or Autocross use, however the HPS can generally be had for $10-20 less per set.

Sleep,
Wow. Putnam must not have much in the way of straights! I warped my stock fronts (OEM Mazda disks) the second session out at Moroso. Then again, I was braking pretty hard coming down from 135mph on the back straight, same on the front.

N-Tech is working on rears that are plated and slotted too btw...for use with the stock RS rears or Wilwoods (sans parking brake). Wilwoods may be a better match for some of the bigger brake kits like the Brembo F50's, N-Tech AP, M2, etc....
Michel

120-mph into Putnam Park's Turn 1 every lap. Actually shorter straights are actually worse for rotors, as there isn't enough time on the straight to cool the brakes. Black Hawk Farms is notoriously hard on brakes. Ask any racer, and they'll concur.