I have read a lot but am still completely lost on a suspension choice.

Is being rebuildable in the US such a big feature? Cost & time comparison?

How often are they going out that one would need to even consider a rebuild on a street car?


What is the range of adjustment in comparison to the OEM suspension and popular systems? Like a scale of 1-10 soft ` stiff, where does OEM suspention rate in comparison to say a standard set of TEIN Flex

Essentially where does “stock feel” fall into the range of a standard coilover setup?

Can anyone recommend a good line compatible with EDFC in the tein brand to research for normal street driving?

Tein flex seems to be the popular choice with my considerations, but I dont feel confident about any thing I have seen.

Anyone with experience using the EDFC setup have any advice?



Are there some good threads that would help me understand which coilover setup might be right for me?

Any information I could give that might help aid in advice given?

TIA

 

I'm interested to see what people think about the flex's i'm about to purchase some coilovers for my car. If i remember correctly flex's are 10/8 spring rate.

 

What do you want to gain from your street driven setup that you don't get from the stock suspension with a fresh set of good (koni, bilstein, etc) shocks?

 

Just adjustability to put it bluntly.

I dont know what I am doing, and all the reading just confuses me because generally speaking its not for my intended purpose.

I would love to be able to go from a very comfortable ride cruising in a strait line down the highway, instantly back to the stiff stock feel and even beyond when I get on a nice backroad, and feel confident that the suspension will perform better than stock.

Having the adjustability would also allow me to experiment with the damping and rates, and maybe learn a little about what all the fuss is about.

I have been asked on many occasion to take my car to the track, and other than suspension, I believe it would perform quite well. It would be nice to have the hardware to meet my needs, and support the conditions if I do ever answer the call to track it.

 

After reading through the Colman FD Chassis thread I figured the 8/6 spring combo on the Flex would be closer to stock as far as spring rates. Not sure if that's the best way to go for a mostly street driven FD though..

I too am looking at the flex/edfc but cash ran low so later this spring.

 

Partly because your dampers should be tuned to the stiffness of your springs. Once they are adjusted to match your springs, you don't need to touch them. In other words, you should be adjusting the stiffness of the suspension with springs and sway bars - not shocks.

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

After you are dialed in, if you turn up the damping, the suspension will then be over dampened. It will feel stiff, but will not be optimally controlling the motions of the car. If you turn down the damping, the car will bounce instead of settling immediately. Both situations are sub optimal and reduce traction.

Just get your shocks set to the sweet spot for your car. When you deviate from that sweet spot, you are giving up comfort and performance.

Example: The main difference between suspension in a luxury car and a sports car is spring rate. Both a luxury car and a sports car have dampers that are tuned to their spring rates- The luxury car's spring rate causes the car to bounce slowly instead of rapidly. You could not make the sports car feel like a luxury car or vice versa just by changing the damping. One possible exception is the magnetic shocks in GM vehicles and Ferraris, but only because those blur the line between spring and damper.

 

So by using a duel/tri rate system you could not change the stroke damping to mask road roughness and/or uneven surfaces?

Even a little?

So then what would be the point of having the onboard adjustable damping once you have the damping sorted for a particular spring?

 

because it sells..


There is no perfect damping for everything, but you can get decently close. Comfort and grip do have different needs, altho they aren't that different. Comfort is about reducing transmissibility to the car, while grip aims to reduce tire load variation, transmissibility be damned. The typically accepted "best" damping ratio for grip is ~ .5-.7 (as you'll find in Dennis Grant's page), with a rebound/comp ratio somewhere between 1.5-3. The ideal setting depends on ratios of sprung to unsprung weight, spring rate, surfaces roughness, etc. Things get extra fuzzy when you look at digressive dampers, which rely on excess damping to help turn in. Ideal damping ratio for comfort is ~.15-.3

For a race car, adjustability is used mainly on compression to maximize grip on different surfaces (one track to another). For non competitive cars, set it and forget it. Most fiddling by avg joe's wont yield anything useful. The best grip usually comes from a car that feels too soft, not super firm (over damped).

If you really want good shocks, your best bet is to hire a real shock guy to design the curves for your car, then get your shocks revalved to match. Bilsteins are a great choice for this, since theyr'e only $65 each. Chris Billings @ Shockshop.com comes highly recommended from real race folk.

Or you can buy adjustable crap and click away to your hearts content.

 

like everyone says, you really want to change stiffness with springs, but playing with dampers is actually valid too.

i have found that once the damper is "right" the car rides AND handles really well.

so yeah part of tuning, is finding out what the fuss is about....

 

And that is kind of one of the reasons I was thinking about getting something that was adjustable, even if not optimized or cheapest for my application.

An experiment of sorts. A learning platform.

It would allow me to play with the settings and actually get some hands on experience , rather than just reading about the topic, which is not doing a lot for me without context.

Then I can get different recommended springs and make my own judgments about how it feels and what I desire in suspension.

Because right now I would have a hard time differentiating between a leaf spring setup and the most high end suspension.


I suspect my stock suspension is OK, but it could definitely use a refresh.

The only thing I fear is making something that works fine, worse.
I like to think of myself as one of those people who don't consider the OEMs to be brain dead idiots in every respect.

 

well part of playing with the suspension IS making it worse, its part of how you tell the difference. or more accurately, you want to go thru the range of adjustments, and see what the car does, once you now that it'll be pretty clear what the car really wants.

there are a lot of people who bolt on the bling bling parts, and then just go to the track, half the point of the bling bling parts is that they are adjustable.....

i agree with the OEM thing the sharpest tuner i've ever met was some random fellow mazda sent to try and fix the Cx7. he knew his stuff!

in the suspension dept though, they usually do the ride tuning based on comparing the new car to its competition, IE ford buys a BMW mercedes, and a honda, and tunes the tarus to match.

the second consideration is that the OEM alignment/supsension setup has to work for EVERY DRIVER, so it needs to understeer in any situation. so the rear will ALWAYS have more negative camber than the front.

when we go to the track, the OEM alignment isn't right... although the spring/shock is ok

 

If you decide you want the Tein Flex with EDFC, I have a set of low mileage Tein Flex's with brand new EDFC's that I will sell. I moved to Penske triple adjustables last year.

 

Still have those teins?

 

Does the EDFC Motor kit fit on the FD without having to cut the hood?

 

^ Never mind, I found my answer. You don't need to cut the hood after all.

 

Just jumping in here... I've got flex with 8/6 rates and love them. Comfy enough to drive cross country, yet stiff enough for amateur autox and road race on slicks. Obviously not the best at any of that but certainly better than a street car with race springs for a road trip and better than stock at autox

 

Did you purchase them with 8/6 installed from the get go?

Or did you have to pay for the different springs and valving?

I dig that you guys want the perfect setup but it almost seems like it would be overkill for a guy like me. I have ridden in many cars with the FLEX (S14s, S13s) and the ride was nice.