Track Tested AVS I's in 255/40-17 with 9 x 17 SSR IA2s
05-02-02, 06:31 AM
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Track Tested AVS I's in 255/40-17 with 9 x 17 SSR IA2s
I had the opportunity to track test my 255/40-17 Yokohama AVS Intermediates this past weekend (26/27/28-April-2002) at the Central Indiana Region Porsche Club Drivers Education Event at Putnam Park Road Course. Notes on brakes--I have '99 FD Rx7 Type RS brakes with Porterfield R4E pads, Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development DOT SS flex lines, and Motul RBF 600.
Friday was a lapping day for instructors. Open lapping from 9 am to 5 pm. Weather was gorgeous and sunny. I had my Hoosier R3S03s with SSR Comps and pretty much toasted my track tires during this day, but my times were consistently quick. I logged 130 miles (~73 laps) for the day.
Saturday I had one dry/damp session with the Hoosiers (rotated L-to-R), as the rain began to fall toward the end of the 25-minute session. The rest of Saturday was wet, so I switched to my Yokohama AVS I's/SSR IA2s. Straight speeds during the downpour were pretty decent, but braking and cornering was "touch-and-go". I did spin once in the wet...it's hard to slow everything down, after coming out of a hot lapping dry session
Smoothness was key, and I managed to NOT go "muddin" again
Sunday turned out to be dry, so I switched back to the Hoosiers for the morning instructor session. I had a student with me, and we lapped the field. I did feel the Hoosiers starting to go away during that session, and I knew the Hoosiers were pretty much gone. Upon close inspection in the paddock the two front tires were flat-spotted down to the cord, and the shoulders were corded. The rears were not as bad, but were fairly worn.
Rather than ending the weekend early, I swapped back to my road tires (I'd have to swap back eventually since I drove TO the track), and I continued with the Yokohama AVS I's.
The first few laps were a bit slick as the AVS I's have never been heated up to that extent (the Yokes only had 3500 miles on them). I also had to get re-accustomed to the neutral handling with same-size tires all around. The understeer was gone, and I could NOT just mash the gas just after turning-into the corner...I had to squeeze on the power with the same size tires all around. BTW, I had no rubbing problems with 255/40-17s up front. The key is the 45-mm offset.
As the day wore on the Yokos got faster...I ran back-to-back sessions with the A, B, D groups, lapping the field with each run group. After pitting in, one instructor driving a 911 shod with A032Rs, was shocked to find out how fast the AVS I's were. He says--"I knew the AVSes were good tires, but DAMN that's f*ckin fast!" Of course, it could be that the FD Rx7 is f*ckin fast, but I didn't have the heart to tell him that
That about sums up my experience with the AVS Intermediates in 255/40-17 mounted on SSR Integral A2s in 9 x 17 all around.
The combo was so good, I may just run on that setup, if I'm too lazy to swap out tires
The sweetest part of all is the Yokohama AVS Intermediate's price in 255/40-17...$103 each from the Tire Rack. You can't get a tire this good for that cheap...Don't even consider the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s UNTIL you've tried the Yokohama AVS I's.
Trust me you WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE YOKO AVS INTERMEDIATES!
Friday was a lapping day for instructors. Open lapping from 9 am to 5 pm. Weather was gorgeous and sunny. I had my Hoosier R3S03s with SSR Comps and pretty much toasted my track tires during this day, but my times were consistently quick. I logged 130 miles (~73 laps) for the day.
Saturday I had one dry/damp session with the Hoosiers (rotated L-to-R), as the rain began to fall toward the end of the 25-minute session. The rest of Saturday was wet, so I switched to my Yokohama AVS I's/SSR IA2s. Straight speeds during the downpour were pretty decent, but braking and cornering was "touch-and-go". I did spin once in the wet...it's hard to slow everything down, after coming out of a hot lapping dry session
Smoothness was key, and I managed to NOT go "muddin" againSunday turned out to be dry, so I switched back to the Hoosiers for the morning instructor session. I had a student with me, and we lapped the field. I did feel the Hoosiers starting to go away during that session, and I knew the Hoosiers were pretty much gone. Upon close inspection in the paddock the two front tires were flat-spotted down to the cord, and the shoulders were corded. The rears were not as bad, but were fairly worn.
Rather than ending the weekend early, I swapped back to my road tires (I'd have to swap back eventually since I drove TO the track), and I continued with the Yokohama AVS I's.
The first few laps were a bit slick as the AVS I's have never been heated up to that extent (the Yokes only had 3500 miles on them). I also had to get re-accustomed to the neutral handling with same-size tires all around. The understeer was gone, and I could NOT just mash the gas just after turning-into the corner...I had to squeeze on the power with the same size tires all around. BTW, I had no rubbing problems with 255/40-17s up front. The key is the 45-mm offset.
As the day wore on the Yokos got faster...I ran back-to-back sessions with the A, B, D groups, lapping the field with each run group. After pitting in, one instructor driving a 911 shod with A032Rs, was shocked to find out how fast the AVS I's were. He says--"I knew the AVSes were good tires, but DAMN that's f*ckin fast!" Of course, it could be that the FD Rx7 is f*ckin fast, but I didn't have the heart to tell him that
That about sums up my experience with the AVS Intermediates in 255/40-17 mounted on SSR Integral A2s in 9 x 17 all around.
The combo was so good, I may just run on that setup, if I'm too lazy to swap out tires
The sweetest part of all is the Yokohama AVS Intermediate's price in 255/40-17...$103 each from the Tire Rack. You can't get a tire this good for that cheap...Don't even consider the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s UNTIL you've tried the Yokohama AVS I's.
Trust me you WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE YOKO AVS INTERMEDIATES!
Last edited by SleepR1; 05-02-02 at 06:43 AM.
05-02-02, 04:10 PM
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Re: Track Tested AVS I's in 255/40-17 with 9 x 17 SSR IA2s
Originally posted by SleepR1
all around. BTW, I had no rubbing problems with 255/40-17s up front. The key is the 45-mm offset.
all around. BTW, I had no rubbing problems with 255/40-17s up front. The key is the 45-mm offset.
A friend and I had problems with 255/40 17x9 45mm offset on the front, bad rubbing in several places.I'd say they key is ride height+tire brand+springs and shocks + offset...
Wade
05-02-02, 05:13 PM
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Interesting to know since I'm going to be buying tires soon. I was going to check into some SO3's but this will give me something else to look at.
do you have any idea how long they would last?
once again, good review.....They are appreciated
STEPHEN
do you have any idea how long they would last?
once again, good review.....They are appreciated
STEPHEN
05-03-02, 04:26 AM
#4
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Originally posted by SPOautos
Interesting to know since I'm going to be buying tires soon. I was going to check into some SO3's but this will give me something else to look at.
do you have any idea how long they would last?
once again, good review.....They are appreciated
STEPHEN
Interesting to know since I'm going to be buying tires soon. I was going to check into some SO3's but this will give me something else to look at.
do you have any idea how long they would last?
once again, good review.....They are appreciated
STEPHEN
05-03-02, 05:50 AM
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Stephen,
If I continue to track the AVI's during the season, I'll probably need to replace them in Dec or Jan, and that's including my rotating in the full-size spare! Honestly I don't expect much more than 12,000 miles out of a set of 5, but at $103 each, you could have fresh tires once a year!
If I continue to track the AVI's during the season, I'll probably need to replace them in Dec or Jan, and that's including my rotating in the full-size spare! Honestly I don't expect much more than 12,000 miles out of a set of 5, but at $103 each, you could have fresh tires once a year!
05-03-02, 05:55 AM
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OK Wade, I'll buy what you're saying. I guess my point was that I'm very confident that 25-inch overall diameter x 10-inch wide x 17-inch wheel diameter tires mounted on 9 x 17, 45-mm offset wheels will not rub at the left-front posiiton, EVEN if used on track with 8 right hand turns. Springs were H&R, shocks were Showa OE R1, sway bars are Eibach fr/rr.
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05-05-02, 10:27 AM
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BTW, the AVS Intermediates did NOT chunk DESPITE the tires being only 3500-miles old! I highly recommend the AVS I's as high-performing road/track tires for NOT very much money!
05-05-02, 12:06 PM
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i can't speak for the track experience manny has had...but i find the AVS I a bit difficult to warm up enough for spirited street driving.
i run 235 and 265/17.....obviously no rubbing issues on stock suspension, stock ride height. surprisingly on my car this setup oversteers when cold and gets more neutral when warm. i have a 93 with the stock rear sway bar(ie stiffer then 94-99). dynoed @270rwhp
just my .02
fabian
btw....i posted my oversteer problem a while back and got many recommendations to check rear bushings. i checked them myself, and had several other opinions as well....they are OK. probably gonna leave things be for now...another FD on the way...yippie.
i run 235 and 265/17.....obviously no rubbing issues on stock suspension, stock ride height. surprisingly on my car this setup oversteers when cold and gets more neutral when warm. i have a 93 with the stock rear sway bar(ie stiffer then 94-99). dynoed @270rwhp
just my .02
fabian
btw....i posted my oversteer problem a while back and got many recommendations to check rear bushings. i checked them myself, and had several other opinions as well....they are OK. probably gonna leave things be for now...another FD on the way...yippie.
05-05-02, 02:31 PM
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Fabian,
Yeah, the AVSes took about 3 to 4 laps to really come in on the track, so I don't doubt they do take some time to warm up on the road for some spirited driving down Pacific Coast Highway 1!
Yeah, the AVSes took about 3 to 4 laps to really come in on the track, so I don't doubt they do take some time to warm up on the road for some spirited driving down Pacific Coast Highway 1!
05-05-02, 07:44 PM
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SleepR1 - I know you've mentioned the Pirelli P-Zero's as being really good street tires to take on the track... how do the AVSes compare to the P-Zero? (granted the P-Zero is a bit more expensive, but still on the cheaper side of performance).
05-05-02, 10:39 PM
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Hmmm...tough to compare because the AVS I's are 255/40-17 on 9 x 17 SSR IA2s, while the Pirelli P-Zeros were 225/50-16 on 8 x 16 SSR IA2s. The AVS I's wider contact patch certainly helps, but I can't make a fair comparison unless I had 255/40-17 Pirelli P-Zeros on the car.
Taking into account the size differences, and given the price of the AVS I's ($103 each for 255/40-17) the AVS I's are superior track tires...but that opinion could easily change if I had Pirelli P-Zeros in the 255/40-17s...
Taking into account the size differences, and given the price of the AVS I's ($103 each for 255/40-17) the AVS I's are superior track tires...but that opinion could easily change if I had Pirelli P-Zeros in the 255/40-17s...
Last edited by SleepR1; 05-06-02 at 06:10 AM.
05-05-02, 11:36 PM
#13
If you like the Intermediates the Sports are even better, more expensive but they also have a much better size selection. The last Yokohama tire I used was the Sport, they were the best wearing sport tire I have ever used. After several track days and several thousand miles there was no sign of chunking, very even wear and they still had plenty of tread left. The only problem is that after 4-5 track days the rubber begins to harden, I dropped two seconds on my lap times even though they still had half the tread left. I replaced them even though a good amount of tread was still left. I switched to the SO2's because of there dual compounds that was supposed to keep them soft as they wear.
I was able to get similar lap times with SO2's and the AVS Sports (when they were new). I am also happy to report that the dual compound on the SO2's does seem to work. I am past the wear indicators right now and I can still pull almost identical lap times from when they were new. The down side is of course they wear much faster/unevenly and chunk a little.
With so many wonderful products out there it is difficult to choose, but the far superior wet road capability of the SO2/3's has won me over. If I was on a really tight budget and it was my daily driver the Intermediates would be my first choice.
IMO the difference between the Max performance street tire and the R compound DOT tire has narrowed so much, that unless you are in some sort of competition I cannot see going through the added expense and hassle of separate track tires. Plus if someone is faster you can always say "yeah but I am on street tires!"
Regarding the 255's up front, what ride height are you using?
Kind regards,
Eric
I was able to get similar lap times with SO2's and the AVS Sports (when they were new). I am also happy to report that the dual compound on the SO2's does seem to work. I am past the wear indicators right now and I can still pull almost identical lap times from when they were new. The down side is of course they wear much faster/unevenly and chunk a little.
With so many wonderful products out there it is difficult to choose, but the far superior wet road capability of the SO2/3's has won me over. If I was on a really tight budget and it was my daily driver the Intermediates would be my first choice.
IMO the difference between the Max performance street tire and the R compound DOT tire has narrowed so much, that unless you are in some sort of competition I cannot see going through the added expense and hassle of separate track tires. Plus if someone is faster you can always say "yeah but I am on street tires!"
Regarding the 255's up front, what ride height are you using?
Kind regards,
Eric
05-06-02, 06:22 AM
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Eric,
The attraction of the AVS I's is their $103/tire price (Tire Rack) in 255/40-17. True--the AVS I's are new, so in fact the laptimes could increase as the tires heat cycle after successive track sessions.
Going with a more expensive road tire (AVS Sport) begins to defeat the purpose of choosing really good, but inexpensive road tires to burn up on track
The S-02/S-03s do have superior wet traction, no doubt...
I wrestled with the idea of just doing road tires for my track wheels (SSR Comps), as I'm not in any formal type of road course competition. After many hours of thought, I decided on another set of Hoosiers.
I know myself too well; I'm extremely competitive with other well-driven (high HP-to-weight ratio) cars on track (eventhough we're not actually racing)...I want the best traction available (to assure a good ***-kicking), and Hoosier R3S03s reign supreme in that regard; no other tire can match the Hoosier's dry/damp grip.
I've been gentlemen's racing too long. Anyone who IS ANYONE shows up at the track with Hoosiers. Going slower is NOT AN OPTION with the men I "race" with
Having said that, it WAS FUN to STILL lap the field on the AVS I's and I RELISHED the look on the 911 driver's faces after they inspected my road rubber in the paddock area
The attraction of the AVS I's is their $103/tire price (Tire Rack) in 255/40-17. True--the AVS I's are new, so in fact the laptimes could increase as the tires heat cycle after successive track sessions.
Going with a more expensive road tire (AVS Sport) begins to defeat the purpose of choosing really good, but inexpensive road tires to burn up on track
The S-02/S-03s do have superior wet traction, no doubt...
I wrestled with the idea of just doing road tires for my track wheels (SSR Comps), as I'm not in any formal type of road course competition. After many hours of thought, I decided on another set of Hoosiers.
I know myself too well; I'm extremely competitive with other well-driven (high HP-to-weight ratio) cars on track (eventhough we're not actually racing)...I want the best traction available (to assure a good ***-kicking), and Hoosier R3S03s reign supreme in that regard; no other tire can match the Hoosier's dry/damp grip.
I've been gentlemen's racing too long. Anyone who IS ANYONE shows up at the track with Hoosiers. Going slower is NOT AN OPTION with the men I "race" with
Having said that, it WAS FUN to STILL lap the field on the AVS I's and I RELISHED the look on the 911 driver's faces after they inspected my road rubber in the paddock area
Last edited by SleepR1; 05-06-02 at 06:30 AM.
05-07-02, 12:38 AM
#15
Be somebody! buy Hoosier Tires! I know exactly what you mean but I still got a chuckle out of that. Maybe Hoosier will want to use that comment in there next add My situation is a little different, with the Ranch in my back yard I get an awfull lot of track time and most of it is not that eventful. If I am doing an event and there is serious competion I would also switch to Hoosiers. The real heavy hitters down here don't even bother with DOT tires, they run all out race slicks, dam rich boys. You know what they say "speed is money, how fast you wanna go?"
I am organizing an RX7 event at the Ranch July 27th if anyone is interested check this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=75643
If you can't make that and would like to come check it out another time, I can always bring guests.
Kind regards,
Eric
I know exactly what you mean but I still got a chuckle out of that. Maybe Hoosier will want to use that comment in there next add My situation is a little different, with the Ranch in my back yard I get an awfull lot of track time and most of it is not that eventful. If I am doing an event and there is serious competion I would also switch to Hoosiers. The real heavy hitters down here don't even bother with DOT tires, they run all out race slicks, dam rich boys. You know what they say "speed is money, how fast you wanna go?"I am organizing an RX7 event at the Ranch July 27th if anyone is interested check this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=75643
If you can't make that and would like to come check it out another time, I can always bring guests.
Kind regards,
Eric
05-07-02, 06:36 AM
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Eric,
Hmmm...I'll have to see if I can get a bigger Hoosier Racing Tire discount with my new ad campaign
I see your situation as well. Why bother with DOT slicks when the rich boys are using full-on racing slicks!
FWIW, I priced a set of Pirelli D5 compound race slicks in 245 and 265 widths, 17-inch diameter, 25-inch OD...$300+ each, with a minimum order quantity of three sets directly from Pirelli Motorsports...I'm not ready to play that hard....YET
As for the AVS I's. They performed so well, I may just run them and slap on the Hoosiers when the big guns come out to play (per your strategy)
Good luck with your Rx7 event at the Ranch. I organize events at my home track (Putnam Park Road Course), and it's not an easy task pulling of an event at "break-even"!
Hmmm...I'll have to see if I can get a bigger Hoosier Racing Tire discount with my new ad campaign
I see your situation as well. Why bother with DOT slicks when the rich boys are using full-on racing slicks!
FWIW, I priced a set of Pirelli D5 compound race slicks in 245 and 265 widths, 17-inch diameter, 25-inch OD...$300+ each, with a minimum order quantity of three sets directly from Pirelli Motorsports...I'm not ready to play that hard....YET
As for the AVS I's. They performed so well, I may just run them and slap on the Hoosiers when the big guns come out to play (per your strategy)
Good luck with your Rx7 event at the Ranch. I organize events at my home track (Putnam Park Road Course), and it's not an easy task pulling of an event at "break-even"!
05-08-02, 09:31 AM
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So I'm thinking that the best tire for the money is going to be the AVS I's. What about the best street and little track time tire when money isnt the concern (well to a point, you know how it is)???
Lets say I need to get a really good street tire from my daily drivin 7 that sees some track time. What tire would you suggest for under $200 a tire??? The S02/3???
Thanks,
STEPHEN
Lets say I need to get a really good street tire from my daily drivin 7 that sees some track time. What tire would you suggest for under $200 a tire??? The S02/3???
Thanks,
STEPHEN
05-08-02, 11:56 AM
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Stephen,
I'd still probably get the AVS I's...just cause I'd rather dump my money into Hoosier R3S03s instead of S-03 Pole Positions To me--going fast means more at the track than on public roads
Besides, as sticky as the S-03s are you'll probably ruin your investment by running over a screw or nail--thereby nullifying your Y-(186 mph) speed rating If you run over a road hazard with the AVS I's you say "eh--no big deal...only $103 to buy a new 255/40-17"
Kevin,
My butt-lap-timer says 2 to 3 seconds slower than WORN Hoosier R3S03s. Regardless, I still lapped at a very good clip considering the AVSes were road tires
I'd still probably get the AVS I's...just cause I'd rather dump my money into Hoosier R3S03s instead of S-03 Pole Positions
To me--going fast means more at the track than on public roads Besides, as sticky as the S-03s are you'll probably ruin your investment by running over a screw or nail--thereby nullifying your Y-(186 mph) speed rating
If you run over a road hazard with the AVS I's you say "eh--no big deal...only $103 to buy a new 255/40-17"Kevin,
My butt-lap-timer says 2 to 3 seconds slower than WORN Hoosier R3S03s. Regardless, I still lapped at a very good clip considering the AVSes were road tires
05-14-02, 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Nathan Kwok
Wade,
Just curious, do you know what the shock/spring/swarbar combo your friends that had rubbing problems were using?
Wade,
Just curious, do you know what the shock/spring/swarbar combo your friends that had rubbing problems were using?
SSR Integral 17x9" 45mm offset
Yoko a032R 255/40
PFS Springs
Tokico shocks (tried all settings)
I think the PFS springs might have lowered the car more than usual, and the A032R tires seem to be slightly larger than some others in the same sizes.
Wade
05-14-02, 11:25 PM
#22
Stephen, I am thinking of selling my s02 pole position tires. Since I will be needing 17' tires. The s02 are the best tire I have ever used. Mine are about 85%new. I was thinking of keeping them but if I sell them I can get some nice tires instead of the Kumho 712's. Later, Mike
05-18-02, 10:56 AM
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SleepR1.......Im sorry if Im being repetitive....I read all the posts and I still have a question or two.
How were the AVS I's on a dry track?
And can the Hoosiers (you seem to swear by) be used on the street?
Excuse my ignorance, Im just out of the loop w/ this whole sportcar tire thing! If you ever have sportbike tire questions Im ur guy!
PS-I have a set wheels coming and I want the BEST street tires possible but not at the expense of treadwear and/or excessive cost. TY!
How were the AVS I's on a dry track?
And can the Hoosiers (you seem to swear by) be used on the street?
Excuse my ignorance, Im just out of the loop w/ this whole sportcar tire thing! If you ever have sportbike tire questions Im ur guy!
PS-I have a set wheels coming and I want the BEST street tires possible but not at the expense of treadwear and/or excessive cost. TY!
05-19-02, 02:49 PM
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The AVS I's were as good as any other ultra high performance street tire I've used on a track. The only road tires I wouldn't recommend on a dry track are the Kumho Ecsta 711s or 712s. Road tires that I've had great results with in stock FD sizes are: RE71s, P-Zero Asymmetrics, Expedia S-07s. With a Plus-One 255/40-17 fitment (on 9 x 17 SSR wheels), I'm enjoying the Yokohama AVS I's.
Hoosiers are strictly RACING TIRES. The R3S03s are not meant for the public roads at all! They are made with very lightweight construction materials, that allow the Hoosier R3S03s to be the lightest of all DOT rated racing tires. Because the R3S03s are so light, they are also quite FRAGILE, and will not withstand an encounter with a road hazard at highway speeds.
Hoosiers are strictly RACING TIRES. The R3S03s are not meant for the public roads at all! They are made with very lightweight construction materials, that allow the Hoosier R3S03s to be the lightest of all DOT rated racing tires. Because the R3S03s are so light, they are also quite FRAGILE, and will not withstand an encounter with a road hazard at highway speeds.