Black91n/a

On the TeamFC3S forum someone put 245/40/17's and even 255/40/17's (not reccomended for a 17x8) on some 17x8 30mm offset wheels and they at least fit in a static test. He did have rolled fenders and CG coilovers on KYB AGX's. I don't know if he ever drove it like that. Increased steering angle WILL cause you to have increased rubbing problems, but these will be obvious in a static test (ie rubbing on sways, etc).

A 235/40/17 should be fine with a 5mm spacer. Good news is that the studs are easy to replace in front (take the hubs off to not damage the bearings from hammering the studs out). I'd go with the shorter 2.5" ARP Corvette/Camaro ones, they don't give much more length than stock, but should be ok with 5mm and should allow for closed end nuts and hub caps. Personally I run the 3.25" ones up front, but I use a thicker spacer on my track wheels and want as much thread engagement as I can get to be safe.

Understeer can be overcome with enough power to get power on oversteer, but that's not the same as having a balanced chassis, but it's enough for most people. Depending on the situation though it might just end up pushing you wider then let go, maybe suddenly, whereas on a balanced chassis it'll be more progressive and easier to balance. You can always play with spring rates and swaybars, alignment and tire pressure to get the handling back to a more neutral balance if you're finding that it has too much understeer. Most racers would say that a SLIGHLY oversteer biased chassis is fastest, at least on slower courses, slightly understeer biases are more stable and sometimes that's better for high speed courses.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

i had 255/40/17 on 17x8 +30 up front with tein flex's. it was really close, but it fit without any rubbing. i did have to roll the fenders of course..
i wouldnt recommend it unless you can test fit first, considering different susp setups offer different amounts of clearance.
try finding cheap used tires and test fitting them to see how wide you can go. thats how i made my way from 225's up to 255's up front (20 dollar tires w/ 2k miles of life left in them)

owen is fat

TweakGames, if I were you I would run a 235 front and a 255 rear Azenis RT615. thats a nice setup for your car/power/wheels/etc. Ive run it with a different tire but the car felt great!

if you want more grip you can always move up to a 255f/275r tire setup but then you would need to roll the rear fender lips flat, possibly run front spacers, roll the front fenders or maybe even run 20mm wider aftermarket front fenders or bolt on the panspeed replica overfenders (like Turbo23 ? ) from corksport.

the 235/255 setup is amazing on a nicely suspensioned FC.
the 255/275 setup is great too but gets heavy and costly and requires work/mods/rolling to fit with enough clearance if youre really going to romp the car hard around a track.
also some guys run a 255 all around, on the same wheel setup/offset you have with good results.
but a lot depends on your tire choice and what exact real world dimensions those tires will have on your wheels... the RE01R is a great tire and comes in 245/40R17 and may be a great fit for your frotn setup but I dunno if they offer a 255 or 265 or 275 for the rear for you.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

TweakGames
It would be hypocitical of me then to say 255 street tire is going to be enough traction as that is the turbo I have and was daily driving 245 DOT Rs to get roll on traction in the higher gears. Heavier wheels and tires will help alleviate wheelspin quite a bit though.

Understeer is the "safe" bad handling trait :P Drivers notice understeer quicker and unlearned instinct is to get off the gas/on brakes for any panic situation which will stop understeer. It is just annoying and usually slower for any performance driving.

There is NO room for wider tires with anything near stock offset to increase steering angle. My 245/45-16 on a +30 rim rub the chassis at full lock w/ stock steering. You can dent out the chassis to correct this if you are into that stuff.

The Drifters get away with more steering angle with skinny tires on low offset rims, which is exactly what you do not want for performance as there is less traction and terrible bump steer/brake steer/trammeling/etc.


That will work up front with negative camber and a moderate fender roll/pull. Buy the spacer last so it can be as thin as possible.

Now, 245 F and 255 R is good stagger and when you get the BNR your next set of tires may be 275 R (they don't last forever )

Use a good rear shock tower brace to dial back understeer and quell wheelhop. this works better than one would think at first glance, there is apparantly a lot of chassis flex due to the rear hatch opening.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

owen
Exactly, I had 245 all around with the DOT R on stock fenders and even with the higher cost of DOT R and limited life it would take several years/many miles of driving on them to recoup the costs of wider rims wider front fenders/paint/etc just to keep with street tires and have the same traction.

I found a deal on wider TE37 to replace my current TE37, but 17" rim still weighs 2 lbs more and tires another 2-5lbs more. Now considering front fenders. See the $lippery $lope? :P

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Would, you (all of you) recommend I get a very expensive front 235 tires (my front NEVER wear down as fast as my rears, I have had the same front for 2 years!) and keep the falken 255s in the rear? If so, what 235s would you recommend?

I like this idea, then I don't have to pay for the $450 30mm fenders, paint and such that you mentioned! I will still need a spacer, and to make room for the higher steering angle.

Thanks!

Black91n/a

I took out my rear shock tower bar and didn't really notice any difference. They're not struts, so there's not the same forces in them, it's just up and down, there's no side forces like in front.

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

I am looking at some "TOYO PROXES R888" 235x40x17 but man that is a LOT to chew off. Are there any others you would recommend for just a little cheaper by chance?

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

Wait, people are runnning 245s up front with rolled stock fenders? What offset? What tires?

Black91n/a

Those are R comp tires, they'll be good and sticky, but will wear out much more quickly than a street tire. They'll also be liable to get hard and loose grip long before they wear out, which isn't so good. They'll also not tolerate cold temperatures, giving up tons of grip and potentially damaging the tire.

I'd look into the Dunlop Z1's if I were you. In Tire Rack testing they matched the performance of the Bridgestone RE01R's, but are a bunch less expensive.

owen is fat

/\/\/\/\/\ yeah what Black91n/a said.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

17x8 +30 (mustang wheels) fit 245's well up front. with tein flexs (i dont have experiance with any other struts, to include stock) i would say +30 is about perfect with stock fenders. the lip of course needs to be folded up.
17x9 w/ 245 offers less clearance, due to the bead being pushed in an extra 1/2 inch. its not just the tire/offset that matters in tight fitment, but also how rounded/stretched the tire is on the wheel. heres my super cool mspaint example ->

below (front tire) is 255/40/17 on 17x8 +30 with like 1.5 degree camber. (not the best pic, but its all i have with the 8" wheel). when i went to 17x9 +24 with the same tire, i lost both inside and fender clearance.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

TweakGames
I personally would not want to mix and match w/ R comps as they will have normal street tire grip when cold and then go to damn sticky when warm. I would try to eliminate as many variables as possible for good handling.

If R comp is what you mean by very expensive tires??

Rather, if you have sticky rears that aren't always spinning they will last as long as the fronts. When I was running 200 treadwear street tires 3 sets lasted ~5,000 miles each in the rear since there was no traction. R comps have last over 10,000 miles for my mixed daily driving/racing.

Black91n/a
Hmm, I was surprised how they quelled wheel hop and let the chassis over steer some on throttle lift right when I installed mine.

Do you have a roll bar already shoring up the rear of the chassis? Did you do the rear bar addition/delete with your current coilovers or before? Is your engine/trans/rear solidly mounted?

I ask because even though it does not shore up suspension directly like the front bar it does reinforce the chassis a great deal right near an area of great flex (hatch opening).

TweakGames
Black91n/a
Unfortunately $$, Toyo RA1, R888 and Nitto 555R/555RII all share a special tread compound and are the only R comps that I have heard of that can stand the constant heat cycling of daily driving and NOT harden up. I think the Nittos are cheaper, but they do take more to warm up (don't know if that is %compound/tread/carcass related or what).

Most people get 5-20,000 miles out of a set of above R comps depending on whether they race them too and whether they replace them when they hit the wear bars or use them all the way to slicks (or cord).

If the pavement is colder than ~40 deg F they do not warm up with normal driving like usual so they ONLY have extreme performace summer tire levels of traction instead of the usual R comp traction.

First morning I learned this is when I accidentilly drifted the undivided to traffic cloverleaf in my commute with a Semi comming at me. Sure I stayed in my lane at less than 20 deg slip angle but I heard about it at next Auto-X as it was one of the racers co-workers in the semi. I haven't had a problem w/ cold traction since then :P (ie I dun learned good.)

TehMonkey
I do with no rubbing and using full suspension travel. Fender edges just rolled under at top, look totally stock unless your head is in the wheelwell.

16x7.5 (or 8) +30, JIC FLTA2 at ~3 1/4 deg neg camber, Toyo RA1 (RA1 are actually medium wide in this size). Looks like my new 17x8.5 +30 front will be able to run 245 as well without issue.

With mixed daily driving and racing the tire wear is even at this camber, wears insides a bit in offseason. Toyo recommends 2-5 deg with RA1.

Black91n/a

I'm trying to remember, and I think it may have been the same weekend that I installed my roll bar, maybe earlier. I've got Mazda Comp engine, tranny and diff mounts (diff came after though), so stiffer than stock. I've never really had a problem with wheel spin or hop though, since I don't have that much power at the moment. The coilovers definetely came after.

The roll bar compromises cargo room enough already, I can't afford to loose any more for the bar or I wouldn't be able to get all the required stuff (tools, jack + stands, race rubber, luggage, etc) to the track.

That's a funny story about the tires, I once had a similiar experience in the rain on some brand new tires (damned mould release!), but I spun 180, no one was coming either way though.

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

Hmm, do you think 18x8.5 +30 would clear a 245 then? Assuming i do run coil overs?

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

18x8.5 +30 with a 245 should work depending on the chosen tires section width and whether or not the rim outer edge ends up hitting the spring perch/adjuster (see Josh18_2k's illustration).

Worst case scenario, you have to loosen the strut housing to hub carrier bolts and pull the slop to positive camber to make room or buy a couple mm thick spacer or use camber bolts. It is good to have choices.

Yeah, I was wondering if your roll bar was already doing the stiffening (and more of it) that the rear shock tower bar did for me. I know when we put a roll bar in my GF's Miata it really helped in the same way (though its 57Lbs up high probably accentuated the affect.)

Stock(ish) shocks/springs may have also softened transfer of forces enough that rear bar didn't make as much difference?

Dunno, guessing here.

I did all my suspension stuff (bushings, shocks, solid links, rims/tires etc) and then added the rear bar last because I put off cutting the carpet/speaker surrounds. That is why I am so sure it made a difference on my car. I may try taking it off to confirm it though.

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Ok, yeah I am thinking those would be a good idea also. Would you recommend I still keep the 615s in the rear, or go Z1s all the way around?

Args, I need to get these tired ordered soon!

They only offer 255/40WR17 for the rear, but they have

235/45ZR17
and
235/40ZR17

for the fronts, what one would you recommend? My guess is going to be 235/40ZR17.

255 x .4 = 102
235 x .4 = 94
235 x .45 = 105.75

hmm 45 is closer actually, but maybe the lower profile would mean better steering response, and less chance I will have issues with greater steering angle?

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Personal preference is always run 4 of the same tire. You don't want your back end capable of one thing and your front end capable of another. So, that being said, 4 Dunlop's all around.

I would go with the lower sidewall, hopefully, it will lower total sidewall flex experienced by the tires in corners.

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

awesome, ok, we have a tire rack in yakima, so I am going to head home today for the weekend, I hope they have them in stock!

THANKS ALL!

have a great weekend!

danegerous

iTrader: (10)

Blackfc3s91! A little off topic but I promise I will redeem myself when my wheels get installed. I've got a set of works on the way and I want to get some decent lugs, its this the proper size aswell as type? Also what difference does it make it they are open or closed ends? Thank you my good man.

Made by Gorrilla btw, Lug Nuts, Conical Seat, 12mm x 1.50 RH, Tuner, Gold Anodized Steel

danegerous

iTrader: (10)

I totally butcherd your username sorry bout that Black91n/a

owen is fat

TweakGames you should order up some 255/40WR17 for the rear and 235/40ZR17 for the fronts, because you will want that shorter sidewall to give you a smaller o.d. and more room to spare for steering, etc.

here is a ton of pics of my stock S4 FC on tein flex with 17x8/17x9 both +35 and the 235/40f, 255/40r tire setup-
(you can see how a 245 would fit similarly and note how a 255 might on the same wheel but its damn close and getting into tall O.D.s that have less clearance than 235/40's)

http://homepage.mac.com/owen_the_soy...toAlbum36.html

Black91n/a

Running two different kinds of tires is a bad idea, because each will have a different drip/temp curve, so when cold they might cause understeer, then when warm they're neutral, then when hot oversteer or something like that. They'll also likely have different breakaway characteristics. Basically it'll make for much less predictable handling.

+1 to getting the 235/40/17's in front, it'll leave more room for steering, lowering and so on without rubbing.

Those would be the right nuts, but you can't annodize steel.

bergrx7

iTrader: (1)

I just bought (4) 8 x 17 +32 wheels today with 225/45 tires. I am going to install Racing Beat convertible springs (1/2" lower, 120#, Bilstein) Could I go 235 on front with no issues? Thanks in Advance

Black91n/a

Most likely, no guarantees though.