H&Rs are too low so let's discuss what to replace???
#26
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When I did my suspension I replaced the parts that Rynberg referenced above also. I got them from Ray at Malloy for the same price. I believe they are called "upper strut bearings" and "spring pads".
Replacing those parts made a nice difference for me. It quieted down the suspension quite a bit when going over bumps. Highly recommend replacing that stuff when doing the suspension. Mine were all cracked and looked very worn.
As for upgraded suspension - I am running Koni adjustables with the PFS comfort springs. I got them b/c I didn't want to go too low. IMO it is a great setup for the street especially if you have to drive over crappy road surfaces like we do here in the NE.
I highly recommend the Koni dampers over Tokicos. I feel they perform better overall on the various cars that I've owned. As for springs its up to you how low you can tolerate. If it is a big issue, go PFS or maybe even keep stock. You can always adjust height on the Konis if you feel the need to drop the car slightly.
One further word of caution about the Tokicos - Shortly after I did my suspension another forum member contacted me. He had just installed Tokicos with the PFS springs and was having a problem with rubbing. We both run stock wheels with 245/45/16s. When we compared ride height measurements, he was 1/4 - 1/2" lower than I was with the same springs. My Konis are currently set at the middle perch and my ride height measure out to 25"-25.5" from the flat garage floor to the top of the fender.
As for the swaybar mount, I think Damon recently posted a replacement part number from MazdaSpeed in the 3rd gen section or maybe he posted here...
Hope that helps. Pm me if you need any other info.
one last thought regarding pricing:
If the Tein's come with upper strut bearings/pillowballs then the price of the Konis, Springs, pillowballs and spring pads might be very similar to the price of a set of Teins coilovers. It might be a stiffer ride though due to the spring rates. Maybe Howard can comment on that.
Replacing those parts made a nice difference for me. It quieted down the suspension quite a bit when going over bumps. Highly recommend replacing that stuff when doing the suspension. Mine were all cracked and looked very worn.
As for upgraded suspension - I am running Koni adjustables with the PFS comfort springs. I got them b/c I didn't want to go too low. IMO it is a great setup for the street especially if you have to drive over crappy road surfaces like we do here in the NE.
I highly recommend the Koni dampers over Tokicos. I feel they perform better overall on the various cars that I've owned. As for springs its up to you how low you can tolerate. If it is a big issue, go PFS or maybe even keep stock. You can always adjust height on the Konis if you feel the need to drop the car slightly.
One further word of caution about the Tokicos - Shortly after I did my suspension another forum member contacted me. He had just installed Tokicos with the PFS springs and was having a problem with rubbing. We both run stock wheels with 245/45/16s. When we compared ride height measurements, he was 1/4 - 1/2" lower than I was with the same springs. My Konis are currently set at the middle perch and my ride height measure out to 25"-25.5" from the flat garage floor to the top of the fender.
As for the swaybar mount, I think Damon recently posted a replacement part number from MazdaSpeed in the 3rd gen section or maybe he posted here...
Hope that helps. Pm me if you need any other info.
one last thought regarding pricing:
If the Tein's come with upper strut bearings/pillowballs then the price of the Konis, Springs, pillowballs and spring pads might be very similar to the price of a set of Teins coilovers. It might be a stiffer ride though due to the spring rates. Maybe Howard can comment on that.
#27
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I have bilsteins with racing beat springs. I really like the set up. After 1 year of use, now I am having a problem where the drivers side front sits much lower than the passenger side. When ever I hit any sort of bump, the tire jams up into the liner.
I had every sort of test done to see whats going on and everything checks out??? Spring tension check, srung/unsprung length etc... So I am very interested in the rubber mount issue. Now I found out that the only other person in the area with the same set up as me is having the exact same issue.
Any other bilstein racing beat guys having this issue? I have been told that every fd sits slightly lower in the drivers side front?? Any comments on that?
I had every sort of test done to see whats going on and everything checks out??? Spring tension check, srung/unsprung length etc... So I am very interested in the rubber mount issue. Now I found out that the only other person in the area with the same set up as me is having the exact same issue.
Any other bilstein racing beat guys having this issue? I have been told that every fd sits slightly lower in the drivers side front?? Any comments on that?
#28
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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the upper shock rubbers are about 3/8 inch thick. how much is your car from lateral level? measure from the ground to the top of the wheel well arch and let me know. the fd most assuradely was designed deal level laterally. it sounds like your springs are the culprit depending on how much droop you have. please come back w a measurement.
howard coleman
howard coleman
#29
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Originally posted by howard coleman
...but given your wheels/tires (somewhat similar to mine, Enkei 18X8.5 fr 18X10) you probably would be much better in the long run to buy a set of Tein HA coil-overs. ...
the Tein spring rate works just fine on the street and track 566 fr and 422 rear. the shocks have 16 adj settings. i run about 40 % from full soft front and 2 clicks from full soft rear. i have dynoed all 16 settings on the shocks at 10 different speeds and they are very nice. build quality and appearance is first rate. and they are inexpensive for what you get... around $900 for the set. i have run them for 4 years and love them. (BTW, don't buy any other Tein coil over as they have way too much spring rate.)...
...but given your wheels/tires (somewhat similar to mine, Enkei 18X8.5 fr 18X10) you probably would be much better in the long run to buy a set of Tein HA coil-overs. ...
the Tein spring rate works just fine on the street and track 566 fr and 422 rear. the shocks have 16 adj settings. i run about 40 % from full soft front and 2 clicks from full soft rear. i have dynoed all 16 settings on the shocks at 10 different speeds and they are very nice. build quality and appearance is first rate. and they are inexpensive for what you get... around $900 for the set. i have run them for 4 years and love them. (BTW, don't buy any other Tein coil over as they have way too much spring rate.)...
#30
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If i measure straight up through the center of the wheel, the passenger side it's 25 3/4 to the bottom of the fender.
On the drivers side it's 24 1/2
As best I can tell, my garage is level.
The garage I go to has given up and racing beat says since thier springs check out, they have no opinion. There was only a slight difference of 1 lb tension during the compresion test. So Im still at a loss. My friend says he's getting new springs---some thing I dont want to pay for just yet.
On the drivers side it's 24 1/2
As best I can tell, my garage is level.
The garage I go to has given up and racing beat says since thier springs check out, they have no opinion. There was only a slight difference of 1 lb tension during the compresion test. So Im still at a loss. My friend says he's getting new springs---some thing I dont want to pay for just yet.
#31
I have been runing the RB and Bilstein now for 4 months.
No rubbing the liner, the ride is slightly stiffer than my original R1 suspension, but not by much.
17 x 8 (235/40)front 41mm offset and 17 x 9 (255/40)rear 44mm offset Volk Racing III(mesh) .
I will start autoX this season with them, so don't know how they will handle yet.
As far as the height goes, I have not measured it, but it looks the same to me from memory.
No rubbing the liner, the ride is slightly stiffer than my original R1 suspension, but not by much.
17 x 8 (235/40)front 41mm offset and 17 x 9 (255/40)rear 44mm offset Volk Racing III(mesh) .
I will start autoX this season with them, so don't know how they will handle yet.
As far as the height goes, I have not measured it, but it looks the same to me from memory.
Last edited by Radical Rotary Avantgard; 03-23-04 at 10:28 AM.
#32
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Originally posted by Radical Rotary Avantgard
I have been runing the RB and Bilstein now for 4 months.
No rubbing the liner, the ride is slightly stiffer than my original R1 suspension, but not by much.
17 x 8 (235/40)front 41mm offset and 17 x 9 (255/40)rear 44mm offset Volk Racing III(mesh) .
I will start autoX this season with them, so don't know how they will handle yet.
As far as the height goes, I have not measured it, but it looks the same to me from memory.
I have been runing the RB and Bilstein now for 4 months.
No rubbing the liner, the ride is slightly stiffer than my original R1 suspension, but not by much.
17 x 8 (235/40)front 41mm offset and 17 x 9 (255/40)rear 44mm offset Volk Racing III(mesh) .
I will start autoX this season with them, so don't know how they will handle yet.
As far as the height goes, I have not measured it, but it looks the same to me from memory.
Last edited by SleepR1; 03-23-04 at 07:33 PM.
#33
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Originally posted by keynote22
If i measure straight up through the center of the wheel, the passenger side it's 25 3/4 to the bottom of the fender.
On the drivers side it's 24 1/2
As best I can tell, my garage is level.
The garage I go to has given up and racing beat says since thier springs check out, they have no opinion. There was only a slight difference of 1 lb tension during the compresion test. So Im still at a loss. My friend says he's getting new springs---some thing I dont want to pay for just yet.
If i measure straight up through the center of the wheel, the passenger side it's 25 3/4 to the bottom of the fender.
On the drivers side it's 24 1/2
As best I can tell, my garage is level.
The garage I go to has given up and racing beat says since thier springs check out, they have no opinion. There was only a slight difference of 1 lb tension during the compresion test. So Im still at a loss. My friend says he's getting new springs---some thing I dont want to pay for just yet.
Last edited by SleepR1; 03-23-04 at 08:02 PM.
#34
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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thanks for your reply and the measurements. assuming that the tail of the spring was fitted to the proper indentation on the upper and lower perches, and you have approx equal air pressure in your tires... it has to be the springs. i doubt that they are equal as to rate. i would love to evaluate them on my longacre digital spring machine. and i will not be surprised by what i find. the car sits on the spring. the upper and lower perches are a given. the only other factor is the shock which is pressurized but so little that it would only change the ride height less than a tenth of an inch. i'll bet the car is a piece of work to drive... let me know about checking your springs. i am sure lots of people are curious.
howard coleman
howard coleman
#35
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howard coleman, fwiw, my old Racing Beats (purchased new in 1997) were also sagging after 3 years of use. It's the main reason I switched to H&R springs (in 2000). I sent the RB springs back to RB in late 1999, and they shipped them back to me claiming they were fine. As has occurred with Aron Hanson's RB springs (keynote22's post above), my drivers side was also about an inch lower than the passengers side (I thought it was because I am a heavy driver). I also recall the springs being too soft on track. I always got a slight amount of rubbing when the car would compress on the springs (not necessarily through the turns either), and this was with stock sized wheels/tires! Anyhow, the H&Rs have been fine since 2000. I highly recommend the H&Rs for those who drive their FDs daily, but do open track events on the weekends--like I do. Thanks for your input on this forum!
#36
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Radkins, the other guy near me with this problem has ordered a set of HR to replace his racing beats. We shall see if the problem corrects itself. I am very distressed to read in the other thread that some one has the same issue with HR that several of us are having with racing beat. I will keep you posted if the problem is resolved by radkins.
Radkins has larger rubber on his wheel than I do...but he put his wheels on sleepr1s car with no rubbing issues...so the rubbing is not a tire combo issue.
I'll take some pics once I get back into town.
Radkins has larger rubber on his wheel than I do...but he put his wheels on sleepr1s car with no rubbing issues...so the rubbing is not a tire combo issue.
I'll take some pics once I get back into town.
#37
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Originally posted by keynote22
Radkins, the other guy near me with this problem has ordered a set of HR to replace his racing beats. We shall see if the problem corrects itself. I am very distressed to read in the other thread that some one has the same issue with HR that several of us are having with racing beat. I will keep you posted if the problem is resolved by radkins.
Radkins has larger rubber on his wheel than I do...but he put his wheels on sleepr1s car with no rubbing issues...so the rubbing is not a tire combo issue.
I'll take some pics once I get back into town.
Radkins, the other guy near me with this problem has ordered a set of HR to replace his racing beats. We shall see if the problem corrects itself. I am very distressed to read in the other thread that some one has the same issue with HR that several of us are having with racing beat. I will keep you posted if the problem is resolved by radkins.
Radkins has larger rubber on his wheel than I do...but he put his wheels on sleepr1s car with no rubbing issues...so the rubbing is not a tire combo issue.
I'll take some pics once I get back into town.
During the install radkins noticed the H&Rs were actually shorter than Racing Beats, but to his surprise (and relief) the static ride height was about the same as with the Racing Beats (actually slightly higher with the H&Rs IIRC?).
H&R Sport Spring rates must be higher than both Racing Beat's and Eibach Pro Kit's (based on NukeGenius' experience with rubbing up front as well)?
Last edited by SleepR1; 03-25-04 at 10:45 AM.
#38
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During the install radkins noticed the H&Rs were actually shorter than Racing Beats, but to his surprise (and relief) the static ride height was about the same as with the Racing Beats (actually slightly higher with the H&Rs IIRC?).
I'm going through the same delimma with my RB springs and Koni yellows (highest setting). Slight rubbing, running 17x8 42mm offset, 235/40/17 up front. Trying to gain more confidence that the H&Rs will solve my problem before I spend the money on them.
Tony
#39
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Originally posted by zeravla
I'm going through the same delimma with my RB springs and Koni yellows (highest setting). Slight rubbing, running 17x8 42mm offset, 235/40/17 up front. Trying to gain more confidence that the H&Rs will solve my problem before I spend the money on them.
Tony
I'm going through the same delimma with my RB springs and Koni yellows (highest setting). Slight rubbing, running 17x8 42mm offset, 235/40/17 up front. Trying to gain more confidence that the H&Rs will solve my problem before I spend the money on them.
Tony
#40
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A spring will not sag unless the steel in the spring has begun to yeild.
New springs do not settle; once the car is bounced to settle the suspension what you see is what you get.
New springs do not settle; once the car is bounced to settle the suspension what you see is what you get.
#41
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I replaced the RBs in my car two years ago with H&R sports. That solved my rubbing problems. My stock wheel/tire combo rubbed the inner liners under hard cornering when I hit a bump. The H&Rs give me about the same ride height but are a bit stiffer, so I don't get rubbing. The car also feels more stable, I think, though it was never "unstable". I'm still using the stock shocks, and they are still just fine.
#42
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David-
I'm glad you posted. So how is the ride with the stock shocks and H&Rs? I never considered the stock shocks as a viable alternative with aftermarket springs, as I come from the Miata world where stock shocks are not up to the task. I'm looking to lower the fd a bit, a smooth ride for the streets, and no bouncing at highway speeds. More info about your experience with this setup appreciated.
I'm glad you posted. So how is the ride with the stock shocks and H&Rs? I never considered the stock shocks as a viable alternative with aftermarket springs, as I come from the Miata world where stock shocks are not up to the task. I'm looking to lower the fd a bit, a smooth ride for the streets, and no bouncing at highway speeds. More info about your experience with this setup appreciated.
#43
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If the stock FD shocks are the Showa R1 or R2 shocks, you will be fine with H&R Sport Springs. They're a good match with the spring. Stock FD Touring, PEP, or Base shocks might be a bit "soft", and not control the H&R spring swell enough. Another good shock match with H&Rs are the Bilstein HDs which radkins has on his FD. AFIK, he's enjoying the setup? With stock Showa R1 shocks and H&R springs, the ride is firm, but not jarring. radkins describes the ride as "tight".
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