If I'm concentrating I can most certainly 'outbrake' my ABS, and I'm not even a phenomenal driver. It can be, however, a life saver in panic stops. If you're willing to take that chance then go for it.

Also, to those that are capping on the original poster after he mentioned that he is sure he wants to remove the ABS as well as quoting unfounded numbers, you're fools.

 

So, let me get this straight. You are able to outbrake a computer that modulates brake pressure at the very point of lockup? I doubt it. Not without flatspotting your tires.

 

And that 20yr old system is still better at thresh hold braking than pretty much everyone short of an F1 driver.

 

Please stop posting. It's obvious now you don't know what your talking about.

thewird

 

ABS only interferes upon lockup and not before. It is a wheelspeed based system. If you're locked up you are losing time and tires. Therefore you can not go faster without ABS.

Refute that, plz. For my education, if for nothing else.

 

Thewird - ease up. You have posted nothing but opinion and conjecture to support your desire to not use ABS. If you like it, fine. But understand that its your opinion and your personal preference.


I'm w/ Barban on this. He is the only one that is posting based on fact vs. personal preference.

I'm much faster on track w/ ABS. It helps keep me from locking up and flat spotting tires. There is no way any human can modulate the brake pedal faster than computer controlled ABS. Doesn't matter if its 20 year old ABS design or not. That is why when you watch Formula 1 or Grand Am or Rolex racing, you see professional race drivers lock up and miss a corner. Racing is racing. Street driving is a whole 'nother thing.

Try modulating your brake pedal when your tires loose traction in the rain on a bumpy road and regaining control. Won't happen w/o ABS.

And yes, I have driven both ABS and non-ABS cars on track. I'm 40 and starting track driving when I was 18 and ABS didn't exist.



Pros of removing ABS: None

Perceived Pro of removing ABS:
cleaner engine bay? I don't understand how that is a pro. Its not like you can see it unless you open the hood. Why not just remove everything underhood then in the quest for a "cleaner engine bay"....

Cons:
Less braking consistency in bad weather condition and rough roads
Flat spotting your tires
Risk of accident when your mad tight skillz don't measure up to computer controlled ABS and you rear end someone

 

after putting up w ABS modulating the brakes for me for a number of years i ditched it 5 or 6 years ago on my dual purpose car. the car is faster without it for me. i was also looking to remove front weight and engine compartment clutter. win win.

i am delighted without ABS.

that said, others certainly may run what they wish and i have no problem with that. i did retain, BTW, the factory brake proportioning valve which is part of the system. you do not want to run without it or you will encounter (even more) rear lockup.

the FD has a 68/32% static brake bias front to rear. as the longitudinal Gs go up under braking more and more of the rear weight shifts forward eventually locking up the rears if the proportioning valve is not in the system. so do retain it.

this is another reason why FD trackers should make a major effort to to add rear weight and decrease front weight. the more rear weight the more brakes you can put into the chassis in the rear... rear braking limits ultimately define the overall brake system performance.

ABS, just another item that can go in the trash barrel along w PS. i could go on

good luck,

howard coleman

 

Most racecars/pure track cars have ABS removed, and I'm willing to believe that an experienced driver can get more out of the car without it, though I think you'd have to be pretty good to do so consistently lap after lap. If you're doing lap days as a precursor to racing, you might also view it as good training for the day when you won't have it in a race car.

That said, you should be realistic about your actual skill level and goals. The weight and clutter aspects are pretty minor compared to the safety margin it provides—particularly for a car that sees any street time. You can always get caught in a rain storm, or be confronted with an incident (not of your own making) that requires a panic stop (that can happen on track too, especially with varying skill levels at HPDEs), and you should consider the risk involved in potentially writing off your FD (or yourself) to save a couple pounds or a tenth or two for lapping days—it's not like you're gonna be buying a houseboat in Monaco and dating Nicole Scherzinger for smoking the guys at your weekend track day.

 

All makes perfect sense....for a track car.
But by removing PS, AC and ABS from a streeted car your also reducing refinement, safety and re-sale value. Gaining a little room and very marginal weight bias that will remain unfelt within the limits of sane street use. But as you indicated, it's their car. Their choice.

 

too much to read in the thread.... idc what anyone says but i deleted my abs "even if its stupid" but i love it. it gives you a lot better feel IMO

and i didnt know how to remove my abs either but search its not that hard.. either buy a wilwood proportion valve or reuse your stock one.... double flaring the line is a bitch so i got my mechanic to do it for me

and i dd my car with all the mods you shouldnt have on a dd...
no ac
no ps
no abs
no airbags (93 with aftermarket steering wheel)
HBP
4" exhaust
R compound tires
super pro bushings all around..........

 

Yes, but can a person modulate the brake pedal better? AFAIK, ABS uses all-or-nothing modulation. Really slow PWM in essence. A skilled driver can back out just a tiny fraction when a wheel locks; this is hard to beat if the bias is set well. ABS temporarily removes all braking from at least the locking wheel. In the FD, locking a rear wheel eliminates all rear-wheel braking for a while.

Even with ABS, you can't always trust the brakes blindly. I've seen an FD's ABS go out to lunch during an autocross, and that driver (victim!) plowed right off the track with locked fronts. That's a fringe scenario, but locking the wheels is much easier to anticipate & correct when you know you're responsible for it. (Having said that, I'd want a good traction-control system on a 600rwhp FD...)

Various ABS systems have designed-in weirdness as well. For example, my Chevy cargo van has a lot of rear bias. It's appropriate when loaded but locks the rears when the van's empty. Even when the van was new, hard braking would lock the rear wheels briefly before the ABS kicked in. This has made the rear step out on dry corners!

There's lots of room for improvement with all technology.

 

with a cleaner engine bay trouble shooting problems is a cinch there won't be any abs sensor problems or random buzzing from the thing our cars are old and i think the abs removed the right way is better than an abs that migh **** on you randomly. i'm sure there are fd's out there with an abs that doesn't work and the owners doesnt know it.

my opinion of course.

a lot of people freak out when they hit abs and take there foot off the pedal because of the vibrations from it i've witnessed it plenty of times from other drivers.-just a little side note.

 

ABS is not really trouble prone. But if it does fail, you still have brakes. That's just a rationalization. Owners also should know if it's not working, there is an idiot light on the dash for it. And if you panic from the vibrations of ABS, you need to turn in your license. It's been around for almost 20 years. I'd venture that most Grandmothers know what it is, and feels like, by now.
This cleaner engine bay argument is true. But I think most just get the idiot light and instead of bothing to fix whatever is wrong, they pull it out. Finding rationalization for it from owners who track their cars regularly and really can justify it's removal.