My Goodyear Eagle F1s have gotten a few years old, and while they have tread left they have cracking in the grooves near the shoulder and I'm sure the rubber is aged. It was a great tire, but it lasted longer than I could use. I don't do much street driving, I autocross regularly, and go to the track for some fun about once a year. 10k miles would be fine. Something right in the area between treaded DOT R-comp and Ultra High Performance passenger tire.

Requirements:
- safe in rain at least through 50% tread
- maximum dry grip
- cost not a big factor
- don't want to deal with heat cycling or shaving
- 245/45-16 tire preferred (instead of 225/50-16)

What do you think about these tires?
245s: Toyo RA-1, T1-S, Bridgestone S-03, BFG g-Force T/A KDW, Yoko A032R H, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup

225s: Eagle F1 GS-D3, Yoko A048MH, Kumho Ecsta MX, Falken RT-615

Dave

 

The Pilot Sport Cup will probably be the best fit, but probably the most expensive of the bunch.

 

I was thinking the same thing - but at $900/set and treadwear of 80 might be a little too salty. I guess the real question is which one is second best? I have a feeling I'll get a lot more value and mileage with the next best tire.

Dave

 

The Pilot Sport Cup, RA-1, and Yoko A032R are all R-compound tires and won't do well in the rain, but depending on your definition of "safe", may be ok. If that's the case, I would go with the RA-1 any day.

If you want a non-R compound tire, it's possible that the 225 Falken RT-615 may be stickier than the other 245 tires available.

Time to get bigger wheels Dave so you can have more tire choices available.

 

The Eagle F1s are simply outstanding in the rain, and I'm not sure I want to give all of that up. I have to admit I get a smile on my face when it starts raining in my heat.

How do I know which tires are classified R-compounds? (I though there was a grey area in there)

Dave

 

A good starting place is to go to Tire Rack or each manufacturer's website and go to the "competition" category. Any tire in there will be an R-compound.

 

IMO, for a street tire, I don't really see the point in spending any more money than on a set of Kumho MX's. However, if you are looking for an AutoX/Street tire, then that's a different choice.

 

Definitely AutoX and Street. I consider the Eagle F1 to be a pure summer street tire, and I'm happy to part with some longevity, cost, and rain performance for more grip on the autox course. But not the kind of tire that isn't safe to drive on the street or wear out in one summer, which is probably what would happen to an R-compound.

I'm not sure when I'll be making the upgrade (and going to the hassle) of running a true R-comp for AutoX, so I'd like my tires to be as capable as possible for both. I'm still a beginner, so I think I'll progress better with the auditory feedback and slip of a street tire, plus when it rains on course I won't have to worry as much.

I did survey the mfrs sites and while many have a competition product line (like Kumho) many others are now specifying fluff categories like "sports car" and "tuner car". I see them mixing the UHP street and competition tires, I guess to help them sell UHP more. That's part of why I posted my list.

Thanks for the ideas. Even knowing which ones to cross off is very helpful.

Dave

 

Dave, here's a good link to read: http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com...5_tiretest.pdf

The top performance street tires right now are the Falken RT-615, the Michelin PS2, the BFG KD, the Kumho MX, the Hankook (tire in the article above), Yokohama Advan A07(?, also in article above). There are streetable R-compounds out there -- Toyo RA-1, Yoko A032R (very size limited and not good in the wet, and NOISY), Yoko Advan A048.

 

THANK YOU I was looking for that article and hadn't bookmarked it.

Dave

 

I love my BFG KDs, but they're not so great in the rain.

I don't think you'll be disappointed in the S03s, I ran those before the BFGs and my dad has them right now on his stock rims, and 20k miles later he still loves them. You might have a hard time finding them, I believe the tire rack closed them out a while back.

 

Recently installed the KD's and love them. As far as rain, WTF, I'm not goin fast then anyway

 

RA-1's are great dry, after you warm them up, but like riding on snot, in the rain. I got 6000 miles out of em with very little track time, maybe 75 miles. You won't be unhappy at the track but if you are looking for all around, I'd stick with what you had, or the KD's.

 

I have 245/45/16 RS2s on my car and they serve me well. I have yet to measure 225 azenis but according to Hankooks and Falken's specs, the 245/45/16 RS2s are a good bit wider than the 225/50/16 Azenis.

http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html
vs
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/produc....asp?pttn=Z212

If you want to go with a treadwear less than 140 then try RA1s. I personally like my tires to last at least a full year.

 

since cost isnt much of a factor, you might look into buying some used rims on the forum or something. your choices are a bit limited in those sizes. it sounds to me like a good tire for you would be the v700

 

edit. they are available in 245's

 

He might be staying with stock (or stock-sized) wheels to avoid getting bumped out of his class in autoX.

-Max

 

You could never run a V700 on the street!!!

 

For the cost I dont think you can get much getter than Hancook RS2s, I have them on the front of my car and I've been impressed thus far. I think I paid 100 a tire for 225/50/16.

 

I have a set of used stock rims with half-worn V700s on them. They are dangerous on the street. When I'm ready for real sticky R's, they're going on these rims.

I'm sticking with stock sizes because I want to run in SS next year and for cost reasons. When I said cost wasn't a big factor, that's simply comparing tire sets around $750-1000. Changing wheels is a huge jump.

I've also cut out almost all of the 225/50-16s since the width upgrade is almost foolish to not take advantage of, so there went Azenis RT-615, g-Force KD, and Potenza RE-01R.

I think I've narrowed it down that the best value in streetable R-compounds is the RA-1. But if cost is ignored, maybe the Pilot Sport Cup is better - I wonder if 80 vs. 40 treadwear means more than the heat resistance of the RA-1.

The best value in rain-capable streets is the R-S2. At under $100/ea and 245/45-16 sizing they really stand out. I guess the next best would be a g-Force KD, Ecsta MX or RT-615, but then you're back in 225 width.

Thanks for the input. While this horse gets old and beaten sometimes, I still have trouble finding good info when it's time to research it.

For the benefit of others maybe here is the chart of sizes available for stock rims:



Dave

 

It's interesting how the T1-R is so much lighter than the other tires. That is definitely a significant benefit in my book, esp with that weight being as far out from the hub as possible. I think a tire weight differential yields more performance benefits (or deficits) than the same rim weight differential. I remember years ago comparing the weight of my stock rim with s03 tire to the weight of a stock rim with T1-S and I couldn't believe the difference felt just hefting up each one back to back.

Dave, on ebay you can find the T1-Rs for as low as $135 per tire:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/16-in...spagenameZWD1V

With shipping you're still looking at a bit less than $600 out the door, not to mention much better treadwear (at the expense of stickiness of course) and great all weather capability.

 

I have the goodyear GS-D3's - although mine are 255/40/17 all the way around. They are an incredible tire for a mostly street/ sometimes HPDE car and I am 97% sure I will go with them again.

They have amazing traction both dry and in the rain. The 255's have more grip then my 275 yoko avs had. I only got to do 1 HPDE on this set (due to an extended set of circumstances involving several engines), but they did an awesome job on the track.

They are much quieter than the Yoko's were also. Smoother. The tread looks "mean" (I like it alot).

When these were new I was POSITIVE I would buy these for my next set. The only thing is I would have liked them to last a little longer. I didnt do a good job tracking it but I think I only got 10K out of them. 1K of that was breakin for the engines. If I had gotten 15K I would buy them again no question.

Keep in mind I am boosting to 16PSI and really have no reason to expect any tire to both have traction and stand up to the rwhp.

The traction is still good even at low tread.

I started writing this thread with a 90% estimate above but in typing this review I upped that number twice. As I am thinkning about it I think I may have talked myself into getting these again for sure.

 

Once you start comparing many different tires don't let width (within reason) be the only quality you judge. Wider is always better when you're talking the same tire. When you're talking different tires from different manufacturers the traction difference between Tire A in a 225 and Tire B in 245 may not even exist.

From the list you gave and with your use in mind the only tires I'd consider are the KD, S02, MX, and T1R.

I've found the T1R to have less stick than the MX and I've found the S02 to be pretty equal to the KD. The only one I've driven in heavy rain is the MX and it's wonderful. I can't comment on the others there but I seem to recall some drivers not caring for the KD in the rain? In my mind the three to consider are KD, S02 and MX. I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them.

 

The S02s really are badass tires. I miss running them--great in the rain, yet you can take them to the roadrace course and they'll perform. The treadwear rating is lower than in the S03s (140 vs 180 IIRC) and they definitely stick much better. Damon makes a good point, doesn't the tire rack list tread width as well? Look at those specs, if the S02s in 225 are close to any other 245 on your list, I say go with the S02s.

 

As you can see, I updated my chart some. Note that all 225/50-16 size section widths were measured on a 7" rim, and I added 0.4" to estimate the section width on an 8" rim.

I'm leaning toward the RA-1 at this point, but I'll wait until spring since I won't hardly use them before then. No point in mounting them and storing them in my icebox garage.

Dave