eage8

iTrader: (9)

I don't know how long they are... get someone to measure one. my ASNs are coming off in a bit to change rear springs, I can probably measure how long they are if you want (they're actually still slightly too long)

Logitikes

Yeah that would be awesome. I couldnt find any info directly about the shock, but according to amazon, the give Product Dimensions 68.1 x 9 x 9 cm. Im pretty sure this is just the box's dimensions, but I was hoping that the length of the box would give an indication of how long it might be. Its listed as 24-012140 but its actually a b46-1214-h0

Logitikes

Also would the 3kgt struts fit into a fc strut housing?

eage8

iTrader: (9)

I don't think so.

specs I got from this page:
It's not that bad: Bilsteins for S14's

R36-5022-H0 insert

OD 45.8mm (1.8")
Extended Length 480mm (18.89")
Collapsed Length 380mm (14.96")
Body Length 266mm (10.47")

Logitikes

Just for anyone who wants this information, heres the specs for the bilstein rear fc shocks
Heavy Duty Series (B46-1214-H0) Rear (24-012140)

Collapsed Length (IN): 13.72
Extended Length (IN): 21.59
Collapsed Length (MM): 348.5
Extended Length (MM): 548.5
Lower Mount Type: Eye 20mm
Upper Mount Type: Stem
Internal Design: Monotube
Finish: Yellow Paint

Boot Included: No
Mounting Kit: No
Spring Seat: E4-FT7-Z002A03

Now my questions with this is, why would this shock be too long? According to josh on the first page, he says that these shocks were too long for his taste? Is he talking about the stroke of the shock? Because these shocks overall are shorter than stock length by half an inch according to monroe oem replacements. He mentions that he switches to 6" stroke nascar and according to these specifications, the bilsteins have about 8" stroke? (21.59-13.72=7.87") Would this be a problem?

Now heres something else I found. According to JRX13, a member on this forum, the olds school mazdaspeed setup uses porsche 914 rear shocks from koni. So when his koni's blew, he replaced them with bilsteins for the same car Heavy Duty Series (B46-1214-H0) Rear (24-012140) Here's the specs.

Collapsed Length (IN): 13.25
Extended Length (IN): 21.02
Collapsed Length (MM): 336.5
Extended Length (MM): 534
Lower Mount Type: Eye 18mm
Upper Mount Type: Stem
Internal Design: Monotube
Finish: Yellow Paint

Boot Included: No
Mounting Kit: No
Spring Seat: E4-B46-371

Now what I want to know is, is it worth the extra effort to get awr rear shock studs for these shocks or are the fc bilstein more than enough? Physically they are about the same dimensions, both with about 7.8" of stroke, but I dont know how they are both valved compared to each other. Any input would be appreciated.

Logitikes

Sorry, the rear 914 struts are Heavy Duty Series (B46-0179-H0) Rear (24-001793). I cant seem to edit my post for some reason...

eage8

iTrader: (9)

most stock replacement shocks are too long for lowering. The shock becomes fully compressed when the tire still has more room to move. Ideally you want the bump stop to be fully compressed when the tire hits the fenderwell.

I'll try to measure my ASNs tonight

Logitikes

Yeah I understand, but why would someone choose a 914 rear strut over the fc's if they are the same dimensions with the same stroke? Would the valving of the 914 struts help compensate for this problem? I'm not looking for a dramatic drop since I will be running bigger tires, maybe an inch to an inch and a half of drop compared to stock is what I will be doing.

eage8

iTrader: (9)

Mazdaspeed used to recommend 914 dampers on the back. I think they were bigger and possibly valved better. I think it was more of a koni track fade thing. The bilsteins are probabl pretty much the same.

monty11ez

The FC Bilsteins should be fine, but if you are going to lower your car a reasonable amount I would order the 914s. You may even need to get the shock body shortened a little.

eliminster

My guess is while they may have the same specs you have toe remember the 914 is a mid engined car and it has to deal with the extra mass of an engine above it.

monty11ez

Looking on Tire Rack the 914s are special order and cost a little more than the FC model.

Logitikes

Just wondering if anyone knows the ID of the coilover sleeve that ground control kit comes with for the front? Just wanted to make sure they fit over 2' Dom Tubing before I purchased them.

eage8

iTrader: (9)

ground control wouldn't tell me, so I bought an allstar kit instead of much cheaper. I had to clearance out the inside a bit, but now it's a nice press fit which is nice.

1NSIGHT

iTrader: (3)

Do you guys have a comprehensive list of parts that someone (ME) could buy and put together myself.
I have read through this and none of the items and their descriptions seems to be definite. I'm sure alot of guys would like to try this.

I actually ran into some guys at a yearly rotary meet here in Atlanta and we talked about this thread specifically. Money wasn't even any issue for one of the guys but he just couldn't figure out what to get for his car.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

Send me $3000, and I'll send you the complete setup ready to bolt in.

There is not really a "parts list" to make this work. You can get most of what you need off the shelf, and then need to have a machine or fab shop make some custom parts to get everything mounted up properly. You are going to need to have front strut tubes custom made (or purchase some). Some machine work will likely need to be done on the front strut insert and/or the camber plate. You will also need rear upper and/or lower mounts made, and those depend on what rear shock you choose.
In all seriousness, if all of you bought the same struts/shocks front and rear and the same camber plates, you could save some cash by having everything made as a group if you have competent machine shops locally.

This whole build process, and then then the subsequent spring rate changes and shock revalving is what steered me away from this setup initially, but this is a setup I will probably go to eventually.

1NSIGHT

iTrader: (3)

3k isn't exactly budget. Unless your doing some dedicated track car. For which I wouldn't choose my FC for. Anyway. I'll probably just get Ground Control. Too much effort.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

$3k is cheap compared to Penskes or Motons.

I said $3k because that would involve me running around and making the kit. Keep in mind that this setup is meant to be a budget competitive suspension setup, not a budget coilover setup. If you are going to build something you know will have to be revalved, Bilsteins is the way to go because revolving them is relatively inexpensive.

I ended up with Fortune 510s, mainly because I wanted to figure out what spring rates I wanted to run and not have to revalve. Fortune builds them with whatever rate you want and valves them accordingly. I'd go that route given that the GC kit with the two way Konis is no longer available. I've done custom valved Bilsteins on other cars and the Fortunes are very competitive for the price. That said it is not an all out motorsport setup either.

eage8

iTrader: (9)

This is a budget setup if you do the work yourself... all the parts are laid out in this thread with part numbers for everything.

If you want a easy button one-click buy, either go with ground control, fortune auto, or call up AWR. The AWR setup is very close to this, but not as good and more expensive.

1NSIGHT

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I was hoping that I could put something together that didnt require any fab work. The opportunity cost just isnt there for me to have to make things fit. I thought GC still had the adjustable konis. Thats my problem with the Cusco Im on now, beside one of the shocks starting to leak and I don't think you can get them serviced in the US. The ride is good on high speed bumps but the springs are alil stiff and the low speed dampening is ok at best.

The Fortune Auto seems good. I dont do anything competitive with my car so they will be more than adequate for my usage. Re-valving is something i wouldnt do.

If its not top secret would you mind sharing the spring rates and settings you got for Fortune Auto?

eage8

iTrader: (9)

GC still has adjustable konis. LOF said they don't offer the double adjustable (independent compression and rebound adjust) upgrade option anymore. Last time I saw someone ask they still did though, so I don't know.

1NSIGHT

iTrader: (3)

Ok if GC does have that option would you suggest them over Fortunes?

eage8

iTrader: (9)

it depends on how much tire you want to fit up front. the GC's ears are pretty short so you can't fit a lot of tire on the front (probably limited to 235s). with fortunes you can fit a 255 because the strut ears are longer.

single adjustable konis are still way better than most things, including fortunes.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

While I agree, I'd take 255s in front with Fortunes over 235s on Konis any day of the week.. and twice on Sunday. The Fortunes have a TON of front tire clearance. I easily ran 255s under stock front fenders.

And if you are trying to get a truly track ready setup on track tires the Koni singles will need a revalve to support stiffer spring rates needed up front. That issue could be lessened if you decided to go with a custom speedway front sway bar that would necessitate less spring rate. I don't know how high you can go with the Koni single adjustables out of the box.

Both solutions are significant extra money over and above the cost of the GC coilover kit.. Which leads us back to this thread and Bilsteins.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

I inquired and was told no on the Koni DAs, but give them a call, perhaps things changed since then.