My first question is for the people that have them. What is your impression of the wideband? What series did you get? I recently bought this one here: http://wbo2.com/2a0/default.htm , the led readout, the wideband unit, cables, sensor, and while I was at it I bought an external datalogging system that has a 0-5v output signal for my megasquirt ecu. It is the LabJack U12. More info on the LabJack can be seen here: http://www.labjack.com/labjack_u12.php?prodId=27 , I guess I am just curious as to peoples results and opinions. Now the last big burning question is, where have you mounted that sweet led readout? This is going in my FC, btw.

 

His products are complete and utter garbage !

Long story short I threatened to take him to consumer affairs to get my money back for three units I purchase from home hobby shack industries that is tech edge, after being fucked around and treated with zero respect i said ii would happily pay 10k out of my own pocket to has his pieces of **** taken to test standards australian and proven them to be very un accurate and not within ANY claim they make on their web site.......... after this thread i got my fucken money back from the snake oil sales men that are wbo2.com

Peter gargano is a ****, his produt is ****, and heaven help you if you proove it to be so to him and ask for your cash back as he will treat you like dirt....

BE WARNED stay away and save your money adn buy a real AFR instrument !

 

Why hold back your real feelings, tell him how you really feel!

 

I have had very good luck with my 2B0 and display.

 

Wow, I guess I have never heard that about their products.... What was the problem with the WB02? Model??

 

What wideband do you use?

 

I only use Autronic B model meter with either NTK sensor or LSM-11 (have both harnesses - vehicle fuel specific)...... its the industry standard here and unlike the rubbish made by tech edge it WORKS without flaw or fuss.

My secondary meter is a Blitz unit
And another I have is a Innovate *rare to use it now days*

I have had numerous units form tech edge (2CO) and also a dyno operator down the road has had the top spec one (multiples) and they have all been **** period, either failed or not been accurate..... with all excuses under the sun offer by the clown "quality control issues" to "you must be doing something wrong with it".

they are a sad sad sad joke !

5 years ago I went and visited him with an Autronic A model I had at the time and he was rabbiting on about how it was **** as it was a full afr or more point out different to his latest spec "wide band", I said to him how did you test this?? he said on our test car (which was equiv to your ford pinto!) his version of gas calibration was using a cigerate lighter gas to show me how responsive his meters were !!!!...... anyway he opend up my Autronic unit in a vain attempt to reverse engineer it and also understand how they make a LSM-11 work so accurately v's his certified pieces of ****. he was able to do not such thing at the end of the day. I gave him one more try 5 years on as I though he would have made something decent by now and sadly all that has improved is his own ego and self worth and little else

Man is a joke as too are his products !

At least an innovate works if you must by a low end low cost meter, it has its issues operation wise which is not tollerable for a professional tuner such as myself but for the money they are hard to beat

yeah Peter Gargano what an **** clown ! ..........

 

I did end up getting the WB02 system. After reading through some threads and some pretty good searching on the net I think I will be happy with it. I recieved it in the mail pretty quick. It was pre-assembled and looks like a pretty good overall quality piece. When the time comes for tuning I will compare my WB02 to the tuners WB02 AFR results and let people know how accurate or inaccurate the system is.

 

As I have said before my 2B0 gave me the same readings as a Motec standalone unit and was within .2 of a dynojet unit. I can't remember seeing an obvious error in any of the datalogs either. My experience seems consistent with a post by Peter on the Yahoo Board (note he also compares it with the older Autronic A unit:
"I never like talking about the competition (do I?), but I thought I'd
give everyone some feedback from one of my customers who is using 2D0
with 6066 (Cost less than AU$500) and comparing it to a MoTec using a
6066 (PLM model maybe AU$2,000) and an Autronic with LSM-11 sensor
(their Model-A that's about AU$1,800 here + $250-$300 sensor)

----
The MoTec unit with the 5 wire sensor tested the same as your
unit although it was a bit slower and more dampened .. therefore
your unit may be better to pick up a miss-fire.

The Autronic unit is giving a richer signal by .02 on Lambda and
is heaps slower. This was with new sensor and new unit.
----

So, for a quarter the price, we're producing better results. The 2Do
uses the same basic technology as our other models.

What may be significant is the Autronic result. Perhaps the Autronic
model-A (which most people use) really does have a problem and their
autotune software works around this to the detriment of other sensor?

Peter"

-FWIW

 

^ FUCKEN BULLSHIT !

I tested three units all at the same time in a common gas manifold bench test, then on a car

Autronic B model (two seperate sensors and harnesses *available on B model)
*LSM-11
*NTK


Innovate LM-1 (two seperate units)
*LSU

TE **** heaps (two of them, sis not waste my time further opening third unit !)
*LSU

^All with new sensors

The Autronic with either sensor and the Innovate LM-1 were identical from 10.0:1 to 16.5:1 and the LSM-11 was just as fast as the Innovate, I have my own data logging that shows when the LSM-11 installed in the dump pipe of a turbo it responds VERY quickly !!!

The TE was out everywhere (both units) by over 0.5AFR !!! not only that but it suffered from numerous over heating errors and glitches, just as the Innovate, but unlike the innovate it was no where near the manufactures *** claims of accuarcy ***

Like I said I was very happy to spend many thousands of dollars to send 3 different units of his all brand new to testing stds Australia and have my findings made official by an independant body after he treated me like a total **** after i told him of his units inaccuacy and faulty operation. In the end he gave me money back after this threat of action.

TE is a hobby electronics set up working from his residential house making very ordinary AFR gadjets, they are not within his claims, nor are they stable in operation when used on cars with high performance.

The dyno operator down the road as most in Australia ! all use the basic Autronic A model (that only runs on the LSM-11) and they NEVER have any operational problems with it, like I said I have the upper end model and it reads 100% identical figures to the NTK high end sensor and harness all the way to 10.0:1 as does a motec PLM when fitted with the NTK option. The cheap **** LSU set ups ALL **** themselves with high heat (have experienced this with multiple Motec's be they the PLM or M800 ECU with lambda enabled) the ONLY LSU set up I have seen that does not suffer as badly is actualy made by Blitz in Japan .....

Like i said the SNAKE OIL salesman was saying 5 years ago that the Autronic is junk, he hates it when he is shown up to be the liar and hype talentless merchant that he is, his products are rubbish, they always have been and given his attempts and excuses this year probably always ******* will be.

Stay away from the **** and buy a decent AFR instrument not a toy made by a nobody.

 

Peter
Have you tested the TE units recently or are your findings based on the early products only?

 

I had three brand new 2CO minature units and sensors in April, the dyno bloke I quote had MULTIPLE other units (none of them worked correctly).

I know of others but these are the ones I can state my own personal experience on and thus 100% share my own testing results in total confidence

He is a snake, he hated me for showing him up so much that he made a complaint about me to my work (after I sent responce of threat of legal action through work email + a promise that I would not let up on getting my money back fro all three units) hahaha what was realy funny was i work in a university and they said this person is obviously a **** so nothing will come of it, just make sure you use your own email address next time LOL

Like I said his first units years ago he was hyping up then and nothing has changed and probably never will, I have no time for the clown.

 

Peter Giljevic (RICE RACING), your posts in this thread have just come to my notice. You know that what you have written here is largely untrue and that you have been a reseller of both Autronic and Innovate equipment in the past (and still are as far as I know) and therefore your posts about our products, on this basis alone, cannot be trusted.

I think most people reading your rantings would take them for what they are, but it does concern me that some people will get a one-sided view of our products. I'll say just one thing about one half truth you mentioned. Your quote:

"I threatened to take him to consumer affairs to get my money back for three units I purchase"

The fact is that for one weekend you had one unit, you were so please with it that you bought some more. Then, after the next weekend, without consulting me or asking for advice or explanations of anything you didn't understand, you asked if I could take back all the units you purchased. I said yes except that you'd have to keep the one sensor you used as we have a policy of never refunding sensors once they have been screwed into an exhaust. So, you rang up Consumer Affairs and made a complaint. I also rang Consumer Affairs and discussed the issued with them. They organized a meeting to resolve the issue, and you didn't want to turn up - why was that Peter, did you think they would find adversely against you? And then, in an email (as in - in writing!), you physically threated violence against me if I didn't do exactly as you demanded, so I called the police and showed them the email. You also sent that email from your government work address (adfa.edu.au). So, as a tax-payer (and an ex-teacher), is it any surprise to you that I would contact your work and complain to them?

If anyone is wondering about the accuracy of our units, and Giljevic's claims about his comparison tests, let me say that we own two Etas LA4 units. These $7,000 professional units (as used by GM & Ford) are manufactured by an offshoot company of Bosch and when we test a properly free-air calibrated WBo2 unit against the Etas they are within 0.1 AFR down to an AFR of 10.0 (the Etas reads only to this point). We believe what the Etas tells us, not what Autronic, and certainly not what Innovate reads. If you really wanted to, we have the ability to modify our displayed AFR to match the Autronic or the Innovate - but you would have to be seriously twisted to want to do that!

It's not totally reasonable to compare an LSM-11 4-wire sensor against a 5-wire LSU. The LSM-11 is designed to be used in a tailpipe sniffing position (it has a 19 Watt heater) but the LSU has a relative puny 9 Watt heater as it's designed to be used closer to the motor - it will not work in all conditions that an LSM-11 will. It's worth noting that Tech Edge are one of the few companies that produce a controller that will tell you when its operating conditions are outside the optimal. We do this to both educate users about repositioning their sensor (or using a redesigned tailpipe sniffer) and to avoid inaccurate results.

When a totally independent test authority, who knows what to test for, comes along and offers to test a range of controllers, then I'll offer our products for testing. Until then, I would warn anyone against believing much of what Giljevic says about the accuracy of our or anyone else's wideband unit(s). And after the experience of one of my employees who owns an RX7, and a couple of years ago paid Giljevic for advice/work on his car, I wouldn't even trust him near any of my cars either.

Lastly, Giljevic makes a number of other claims against me and Tech Edge that I have ignored for the present. I'm happy to air more dirty laundry should he wish to continue disparaging Tech Edge and our WBo2 products. I live in a fairly small city and news travels around, so be warned Peter. As we say in Australia, "don't trust anyone who plays the man and not the ball".

 

^ Your products are regarded as garbage not just by me, make no mistake about it. No one of any note in the tuning/racing industry uses them in your own town or country but I suppose your within your rights to try and convince not so wise people with your crack pot theories and opinions and web page full of amazing insights and tech specs LOL

Have you tried to reverse engineer the ETAS unit yet???? LOL

Oh yes I totaly forgot I will be around to collect my Innovate motorsports HBX-1 heat sink that I left for you to reverse engineer. Expect a visit real soon

 

Let it be known that Peter Giljevic didn't let me borrow the heatsink in question, but he gave it to me.

Now I'm not one to go back on my word, and I expect the same of the people I deal with. So, Pete, it's mine now, you gave it to me, and I've lent it to others a few times now to demonstrate that the position they have chosen for their sensor is less than suitable.

So is Giljevic going to ring up consumer affairs and claim I stole his heatsink. And will he back-out this time too when I call his bluff and ring them to arrange a three party mediation session?

Or will Giljevic threaten to come around at any time of the day or night to collect it. That's what he did last time he didn't get his way, so I called the police.

For the time being I'll ignore the other rubbish Giljevic mentions, but for everyone else, it is worth mentioning that Tech Edge sells both wideband controllers, and also single chips, to many people who integrate our technology into their own products. Business ethics precludes me from naming any of our customers (I can hear Giljevic saying "yeah, sure, that's convenient") but just last week I was fascinated to learn that one of our US manufacturing customers sold a well known local tuner a Lambda setup for around $2,500. He knew it was ours and I reminded him it was designed in Australia. I also had to tell him that we sold the same thing in a different box for around 20% of the price he paid!

In fact many professionals in both industry and motor sport use Tech Edge equipment, it's just that many are not aware of it because it's sold under a different name. And we're happy about that! And we have always had an international focus. I'm sure Giljevic will remember he first heard about us from a US based forum - probably this one. The fact is that we have never advertised anywhere, least of all locally. All sales we have ever done to date has been by word of mouth and professional people searching for us on the web. Sure, we many not have the same visible presence we had 5 years ago when very few people were selling low cost Lambda equipment, but that's primarily because we have not marketed ourself like Innovate, PLX and others have done. Also, being based in Australia, it's more difficult to sell in the US because people expect next day delivery rather than the 5-7 day delivery we usually achieve.

In case anyone is unsure, Tech Edge is alive and strong and maybe we'll even start advertising, and, heaven forbid, maybe open an office in the USA!

 

I've been running a TechEdge 2A0 wideband since 2004 and have had ZERO issues. I've used it to tune my own personal cars (FC, FD, 240SX with SR20, MR2 with 20 valve) as well as friends & customers. I've compared it against the wideband equipment on a DynoJet, Superflow, and another AWD dyno that ESX runs (can't remember the name). All were within the same range down to .1. Just my personal experience. Mine was the DIY kit which I built myself. It has been awesome considering the price.

 

ebattle all you want, I'm done with you

 

ebattle over

 

Not taking sides, but i have dealt with peter (RICE) a couple of times. He always came back to me with solid arguments and opinions. I trust his judgment.

I personally got an LM1 and LMA2. I tried it out and it was spot on as with the dyno jet. Unluckily, I cant say the same for the tech edge. Was using an LSU sensor, and I guess that was the problem. It wouldn't read very low AFRs and was not very accurate. It was .5 to .8 off in the region of 11.3 when it should read 11.6. The LSU was purchased new. Maybe the hardware needed some form of upgrade i don't know. But we sure did not use the unit. The owner was not very pleased, and opted for the innovate unit. Once again, Peter (RICE) for what i know of him is a very blunt person but one hell of a straight guy. I vouch for him and our dealing together, and if he sometimes delivers the message bluntly doesn't mean he ain't being straight.

Sorry to come in on this, but in no way can I allow a person who gave me sound advice be slapped in the face and I turn away.

I am just giving a feedback that i personally witnessed. Also, for the record, Though RICE may be blunt, he sure knows his stuff.

 

Just so you know, the problem you may be seeing is a problem with the TEWBLOG software which is not owned or maintained by techedge. I have an LA1 gauge and a 3A2 unit. I noticed around 11:1 the gauge read .3 richer than the unit. The linear output from the techedge also agreed with the gauge. After some emails to Techedge, it appears that the problem is in TEWBLOG. They changed frame formats and the author of the software never updated it to use the new format.

I'm not going to take sides here, as open debate like this about a product is generally a good thing. It would just be nice if it was focused more on the product at hand and less on personal dealings.

On another note, I haven't had any overheating issues or failures with the techedge and the lsu4 sensors. I don't run leaded gas so this obviously prolongues the sensor life. I notice the sensor to be very responsive. There is virtually no lag in my datalogs.

I'll put the car on a dyno with a sniffer shortly and post the comparisons. If all goes well I should be able to do this on Monday. Hopefully this can bring some actual evidence to the debate.

 

Thanks Rob on your insight on the matter. I personally do not have dyno figures since i do not use the unit. I will definitely suggest that the unit be updated. As i mentioned earlier, i assume it might be a software or firmware muck up. Anyhow, thanks for your input on this. Yes i believe open product debate should and is healthy especially in a specialized community such as this.

Best,

G

 

^ I have provided more than enough evidence

dont waste your time, buy a decent AFR instrument and leave the home hobby ones to people who know no better

 

My feedback

Gargano is a liar, a snake, a childish little boys under developed brain in a fully grown mans old burnt out body !
When he does not get his way (i.e not refunding money !) he tries to get revenge, little does his simple mind realize he would be better off Trying to make a decent AFR gauge rather than making constant excuses and fabrications when he is exposed for the talentless opinionated clown he excells at in reality v's his virtual dream world *opinions given to me by his close friends and ex workers*

Your experience of TE home made Gargano products is not isolated, but what can you expect from someone who has no idea of cars, does no actual testing on cars, has no decent customers who can give them the feedback needed to develop a proper meter.

His only retorts are to attack the only person with the guts to stand up to him and his excuses ! as i have always said some actual evidence and decent applicable referals would go a long way more than a pissing match, but when you have ZERO then what else would you expect

 

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/what-wideband-use-w-single-race-gas-691702/

^ List of decent AF meters as used by professionals in the real world on real cars, you'd be wise to take advise of these people and their recommendations and leave the *opinions* to the childish net warriors like Gargano

 

well I ran it on the dyno tonight. Unfortunately I'm having some kind of ignition issues, but the AFR was spot on from the techedge to the dynojet readings.