yes its another compare the turbos thread....

ive looked at compressor maps, etc, but am getting a headache and cant seem to find any info on here concerning the T61. in either case i am looking to use a 1.00 tang div exhaust. my concern is whether or not the T-61 will die off at higher RPM with that exhaust (ive only found one thread where a guy was using t61 with 1.15 housing). 2nd issue is im not sure t60-1 will give me the power i want without some very aggressive tuning.

goal: 400rwhp @ around 15 psi
minimal lag (of course)
ability to turn boost up past 15 and not break out of the turbo's efficiency zone...

use: street, little autoX, some drag and road race

engine being built will have an aggressive street port (engine builder using pretty much same ports that he uses to get ~230fwhp out of 12A street port with weber carb)

any help/info would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,

 

I have yet to see a 60 series turbo make 400 rwhp at 15 psi.

 

ive seen it done several times

 

I think your better off with a full ball bearing type. Quicker spool for AutoX and street use. I think there are a few proven units that come in Kits that will make the power you crave (400hp @15psi) Apexi IHIrx6 and the GT35/40 and even the T04E or S from XS. Just how high had you planned to turn up the boost? All of the Kits I mentioned call be turned up significantly. Also your fuel system will need to be matched to the boost you plan to run.

 

everything is prepped....i just cant decide between these 2 turbos
i dont want a ball bearing turbo just for reliability and rebuilding issues...

really i just want the power there at 15 for when i feel like screwing around. ill probably keep it at something like 12 or 13 most of the time on the street. i want the ability to turn it up to around 18 or so (no higher than 20) and still have an efficient turbo at that psi as well.

 

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/comp_maps/fig9.html
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/comp_maps/t61.html

for comparison.....

 

All they guys I see running t04's are making 360-380 rwhp at 15 psi. I'm not sure how extensive their porting is though. Isn't a 60 series the same size? It seams pointless to me to go single and make what can be made on twins. I mean there's gotta be a way to do it, I'm just speaking from what I've seen.

 

Btw, I made 358.7 rwhp and 289 ft/lbs at 15 psi on SR twins with a mild street port. If I switched to single and made the same power, I'd be pretty dissapointed. Maybe it has something to do with the trim size and a/r ratios, I dunno that much about this. I'm looking for 400+ @ 15 on my gt 35/40

 

this is the only thread that i found that had any real info on the T61: https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&highlight=t61

 

in there....Evil Aviator says:
A friend of mine had an FD with a T-61 (1.15 AR), Haltech E6k, street porting, and an FMIC. His turbo spooled around 3500-3700rpm, and made 442hp @ 15psig on the dynojet. He didn't have a problem with the lag, however his car was a real handful in the Florida rain.

T61 isnt a T04 housing...actually i was just flipping through sport compact car magazine the other day and saw an article on turbo selection. in there they compare a t04E with a t61 and the t61 dwarfs it quite a bit.
also have you forgotten about the people running the T04s setup???
i think when you say t04 and post those numbers youre getting caught up in people running mild setups and/or a T04E

 

First of all, go read some books on turbo design.&nbsp Compressor size dictates max power potential; turbine A/R dictates power-band.&nbsp It sounds like you're more worried about the turbine A/R versus the compressor size.

Silver93TT is right - the 60-1 isn't designed to produce 400hp to the wheels at 15psi.&nbsp BTW, 400hp to the wheels on an FC/FD is like 450hp at the flywheel.&nbsp The 60-1 is most efficient at 10psi.


-Ted

 

Keep in mind your twins were upgraded and are probably pretty equal in size to a T04E turbo. A lot of people go single to get rid of the complexity of the twin setup and to size up a turbo that is more efficient in the higher boost levels. In many cases, just going single will not produce anymore HP than upgrading the twins. It's just another route to take in making more reliable HP.

 

i have heard of and seen dyno charts of a few people making very close to 400 rwhp on a 60-1 at 15#
i realize the T61 has a higher power potential thats why im leaning more towards it. i just dont know whether or not to mate the 1.15 exhaust to it or the 1.00. i THINK the 1.00 would make for a fairly quick spooling single, but am not sure what would happen at the top end - if it would die off or not. thats what im asking.

400rwhp is more like 475 at the flywheel if you account for 15% driveline loss. and BTW i wouldnt post here if i hadnt already done my reading and research. i am by no means claiming that I am an expert (thats why im posting), but i understand the basic principles.

 

dude best thing to do is talk to a turbo company theyll know better than anybody on here. these ppl r just gonna go with what they know,like 35/40,or t78,or t04
talk to a turbo company and theyll make u turbos that ppl have never even heard of.like im goin with a t60-with a 63 exhuast and i want 400 at 15 psi same as u.but everyone is like no get a 81 and two step,if i was gonna do that i would just keep the t78.its like this my friend runs an 11 sec flat in his supra with a t66 and 58 exhuast housing which is even smaller than what im gettin.the ppl on here just look for big numbers or are magazine racers.go with what they have been told/i made that mistake with the t78 i will not do it again.

 

what?
read first post
im looking for someone who has run this setup or knows someone who does to get some real world info. or at least someone who has info on a comparable setup.
question is AGAIN: will t61 with 1.00 a/r die off at the top end?

and btw....i dont think taht .63 exhaust is a good idea at all. it will die at the top end. maybe the company you talked to thinks that you run a 1.3L piston engine that doesnt have the exhaust pulse strength that a rotary does. i would go with "everyone" and tell you to get a larger exhaust a/r. with the .63 dont be mad if the power falls off really early and you get boost at 1500 rpm or something ridiculous like that.
and no thanks on getting some turbo that no one has ever heard of before....how does that help me in any way??

 

this guy has been making turbos for 25yrs/he is known for the frank 1-6 series turbos ,i know the top end would die off on that small of a housing,but my friend that had his turbo made by this guy took 1 1/2 secs of his et and almost 2 secs of his 1/8 mile.he went smaller,but like i said it depends what u want.

 

I'd like to see proof.&nbsp I'm basing my experience with a 13B-REW that made just 385RWHP with a Turbonetics 60-1 BB center at 15psi.&nbsp bdc196 has done 424RWHP with a 60-1 Hi-Fi running close to 20psi *BUT* using an A2W IC that dropped intake temps under 60&#176F.&nbsp Both these numbers correspond that you're not going to hit 400 at the wheels short of some miracle.

Please, I'd like to see your proof on this...



-Ted

 

I hope you're not implying that you can compare rotary turbo power versus piston turbo power.&nbsp Typically, power figures are lower on a rotary by almost 20% compares to an identical turbo on a piston engine.



-Ted

 

In a quick search i found a thread ( https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&highlight=601 ) in which Eric Michel posted a few of his maps using a 60-1 and made 388 @ 16psi
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...&postid=651142
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...&postid=651111

i havent gotten a reply back from him or talked to him in a while, but i would assume that hes probaby running a mid 11 AFR and RP when tuning other cars usually goes a little conservative on the ignition maps (unless Eric was tuning himself which is probable). As I said in my first post: i dont see myself making 400 rwhp without some very aggressive tuning on the 60-1 with 1.00 exhaust and at 15#. I am not in a financial position to tune that aggressively.

My replies to Silver93TT were concerning him stating that he had never seen anyone make 400 out of any of the turbos i was looking at. I replied with a few posts concerning the t61 compressor which i know has 400rwhp potential at 15#.

from what i understand the hifi housing is smaller and limits power to 90-95% of what the standard housing provides. so equaled out taht way with your friend's data it would be something like 450 rwhp at 20 psi...?? I thought it would be more.....hm.

Really my questions were concerning my doubts between the power potential of the 60-1 b/c i have heard of people making 400rwhp @15# (i am willing to run more to reach that power, but wanted to stay around 15), but i didnt know how aggressive their tuning was AND my most important questions were concerning the T61. if you have info on the t61, i would be happy to hear it....especially with a 1.00 exhaust a/r.


As far as proof on the 475fwhp =400rwhp, i was using 15% driveline loss as a standard and just slapped some numbers in the calculator. If you want me to be more exact....
471-(471*.15)=400.35

 

Ted no offense, but why do you get so rude when people make incorrect statements? I so respect your knowledge, but sometimes you come off as sort of a *****, just because you know more than others.

 

sorry to rain on your parade but the turbo company's don't know ****. It is much better to talk to someone who has done it than some guy asking " So what size is your engine a 1.3 liter??" I have talk to alot of people and so far haven't had much help. I am leening twords magnus motorsports.

 

yeah well im sure he would know that spool up is different with a 1.3 rotary than a 1.3 piston otherwise he probably wouldnt recommend such a good sized turbo.he probably would of said go with a t3 or something drr.im sure a 1.3l piston wouldnt even be able to spool it?

 

Last time I checked, 388 <> 400 and 15psi <>16psi...


-Ted

 

I put money that 99% of the folks on here don't know...
1) How a turbo works
2) How a waste works
3) How to read compressor maps
4) What A/R stands for
5) How much air flow does a 13B do
6) Difference between boost and airflow
(And the list goes on...)

If they did, we would have a lot less questions.

Asking for help is a little different than claiming you know something when obviously you don't.

I've got a big ****** problem with that.



-Ted

 

I don't know how certain people can claim that 400 RWHP is not possible at 15 psi just because they have not done it!
I have seen it done many times by a number of different people.
Let's see back in 1996 just when the first dynojet came to town my first experience on the dyno at 15 psi with a 60-1/.96 yielded 330 RWHP with a stock TII motor. That same turbo later on the same motor that was modified and ported etc. went on to make 398 RWHP at 14.5 psi and 478 RWHP at 20 psi!
I have a buddy that made 500 RWHP on a 13B at 20 psi with a 60-1!
****, I know of a certain famous road racer down here who made 440 RWHP with the stock twins on his personal car but to some in here that is certainly not possible right!
The norm for a 60-1 at 15 psi is in the 350 to 380 RWHP range but like I've stated above people have done higher also!

crispeed
87 RX-7 TII
9.204@150.47mph
2600lbs
un-tubbed