Einheri

Question about a GT35r vs GTX35r ...

https://i.imgur.com/4lU9sWI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oN314XO.jpg

I have the option to install either or, I really won't have to change my build at this point...

Can someone give me some opinions about either/or considering the rest of my planned build and which might work better in the long-run?

1,000 cc primary/secondary fuel injectors (ID1000s)

4th gen Supra fuel pump

PowerFC tuning to run off e85 (might need a datalogit for 93 octane/e85 switching since there aren't a lot of e85 stations out here. But in all honesty I'm not doing the tune, so I don't know if that is something that would be safe to do or not)

3mm apex seals, with a mild street porting done- compression is crap right now though, might need to rebuild it soon

V-mount IC...custom plumbing hasn't been fabricated yet, so I could still go bigger on the turbo than a gt35r or gtx35r

Downpipe- no emissions equipment left on since I'll just run e85 when I need to pass emissions, some weird custom exhaust I bought the car with that sounds amazing. (If anyone can name the exhaust that would be awesome here's a pic http://imgur.com/Gejcg )

The car was being built for decent spool time (close to stock twins, which is why I initially wanted a gt35r and nothing bigger) for the purpose of auto-cross.

Opinions on either turbo?

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I am running 650cc primary and 2000cc secondary for my GT3574R turbo. That is 5,300CC of fuel available. I wanted the injectors to run at a max of about 85% duty cycle.

I went with bosch EV14 and I chose to update the whole fuel system because its old and it needed it IMO.

Now you only have 4,000CC of fuel and E85 is 85% the energy content I believe. So if you want to be safe, you should have 6,250CC or so.

you will need a lot more fuel if you want to go E85, and I am not sure if the supra pump can push that amount.

I chose to run the amount I am to ensure I don't push the injectors. I left the primaries with 650CC since I didn't want to run lag in the primary injectors to have a good idle on the powerFC (limit is 1.9 Ms on-time).

I am unsure of the exact differences between the GT35R and GTX35R but I think the GTX35R has a wider map, and can push more air than the 35R. So you are going to need lots of fuel if you run E85.

JBF

iTrader: (13)

I think there is a single turbo section...

Einheri

I will move it if a mod asks me to, but since I'm just asking for opinions on a build in general and not just for the single turbo (hell if you think I should go BNR twins for what I want then give me some good arguments for it)

Supra fuel pumps are over engineered as heck, so I'm not worried about those...but you do bring up a good point about the injectors.

The guy who helped me plan the build swears that the PFC can make the ID1000s work for what I need, but that was when we were considering pump gas + aux injection. -Now- what I'm trying to do is get a datalogit with a pump gas tune and an e85 tune so I can switch on the go. Bad thing about that is I have to run out of pump gas and mix e85 with e100 until my ethanol gas meter reads 85... This just might make tuning the car complete hell, also

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Datalogits themselves don't hold tunes any more that a power cable creates energy. They are just the device that allows you to interface your laptop with the ecu.

You're def gunna want larger injectors though.. you can get away with mid-300's on pump gas with the 4x ID1000's, but that is as far as I'd push it...

If you want sequential twin response, and lower power, for auto-x than stick with twins.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I guess I have a different philisophy when building a car. I want a clean idle in the parameters of what the ecu can do without adding negative lag. I also like simple systems.


So I see that E85 has only 71.7% energy BTU's as gasoline. So you are going to need way more fuel.

The GTX35R can push 70+lbs of air.

New Garrett Turbo Series | Irrational

If you want to push 70lbs flow or 1,008 CFM or 525WHP you are going to need 5,000CC's of fuel at 85% max duty cycle. if you run E85 and only E85 you will need 6,975CC of fuel.

The supra pump will flow around 4,200CC of fuel (450WHP) but in your case it will flow 322WHP. You will need a dual pump system and bigger injectors.


What are your goals? I set up mine to handle mid 400's WHP with good overhead and run it mainly in the low to high 300WHP for reliability purposes on 91 octane here in CO. It depends on what you want to do. I think E85 is a big headache and didn't go that route. The drivetrain doesn't really hold up well when the WHP gets above 450+WHP. your call.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

This would be the better option;

Garrett GTX3576 Turbocharger

If you don't want that one, then I would just get the regular GT35R

I would advise running the Adaptronic plug and play with the E85 flex sensor

Adaptronic Series 6/7 Rx-7 Plug and Play - Turblown Engineering

Zeitronix ECA : SEMA Award Winning Ethanol Content Analyzer and Flex Fuel Sensor for E-85 and E-85/gasoline Blends

You will also want ID2000s secondaries for the E85

Injector Dynamics ID2000 - Turblown Engineering

You will definitely want a bigger fuel pump and one rated for E85;

Walbro 400lph fuel pump - Turblown Engineering

Einheri

Yep, the e85 tune was a new plan just so I could pass emissions- so I'm ordering the ID2000 fuel injectors and am currently looking for another salvaged Supra that I can harvest for its fuel pump.

My goal for the car is 380-420 whp on e85 (to pass emissions testing) and nothing more. Maybe once I pass emissions and decide it's too big of a hassle to fill up on e85 every time I want to drive it I'll switch the tune back to pump gas- so I want a setup that will allow me to do that pretty much on the fly.

Is that flex fuel analyzer compatible with a PowerFC? From what I heard they aren't and all I really have to do is empty my fuel tank and pray the gas station is actually pumping out e85 and not e70 or something.

I've decided I'm going with the gt35r since I talked a co-worker into going bigger and selling me his unused one at a discount. So that part is definitely set in stone as of now, but keep the suggestions coming for fuel pumps. Will I really have a problem at all running dual Supra pumps on e85?

Einheri

So for fuel pumps how about something like

DCR Dual 044 Fuel Pump Assembly - $799.00 : *** Performance, Inc., *** Performance, Inc.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

Why not run a supra pump rewired with pump fuel and run water injection for safety? That should easily handle all your wants of running high 300's, low 400's WHP. its also the most simple. You can still run those 2000CC secondary injectors and be just fine with pump fuel. the pump can handle in the low to mid 400WHP.

I am running that exact set up on my car with no water injection right now. (GT3574R)

Einheri

Ah, I actually do have a Coolingmist set up for running pump gas. I figured it would just be redundant when I'm using my e85 tune, but I'll definitely need it when I'm running pump. I just want to future-proof my build in case I decide to redo the porting and go with a half-bridge/bridgeport when it comes time for a rebuild and upgrade to a gt42r. But I'd rather have an autocross car than a drag monster.

Also yea haha, BNR stage 3/99 Efini twins are expensive, so GT35r/GTX53r are the closest in terms of spool speed and are almost $1,000 less...so I had to economize. And I guess what I mean about the datalogit is I would have a tuning map saved on my laptop and I could switch between the two using the datalogit- I have the commander but there's only so much I can do with that... Thanks for all the input so far guys, love being able to bounce ideas around

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

The single turbo itself may be cheaper, but you'd still need to factor in the cost for the DP/MP plus any additional items you would want/need with the single upgrade.

On the other hand, you can buy a pair of BNR stage 3's, get a custom/upgraded solenoid set, bolt both those in and run it all day in the mid/high-300's with excellent response.

my89turboII

My friend just put the.gtx35r on his built honda made 470whp on 11psi on pump 670whp on race with 30psi. Spool time is way faster then the gt35r. Spend the extra for the gtx35r. Good $2,500 though ha

JBF

iTrader: (13)

Do you need a turbo manifold?

Einheri

Holy crap are you serious? Is the spool time THAT much better on the GTX? I'm not that power hungry yet though haha, I figure once I get bored of the gt35r and need a rebuild I'm going half-bridge/bridge port gt42r when I can afford it.

I forgot to add that I have every supporting mod for a single turbo track car. I bought the car and it already had just about everything I could dream as far as needed upgrades- widefoot clutch, adjustable TEIN coilovers with an EDFC, 3mm apex seals / street ported, bigger radiator, bigger intercooler (gotta get rid of this old thing now that I have this beautiful v-mount), 12 row twin oil coolers...etc. BNR stage 3's were extremely tempting but I figured a $1,300 turbo that can get more whp with only a slightly worse spool time was worth it. Also no one down here likes/knows how to tune BNR stage 3's well, I think it's mostly people don't want to- and before you say "learn how to do it yourself" - that is a dream of mine that will have to wait until after I finish graduate school

my89turboII

Dead serious lol I have pictures of the dyno sheets if you would like to see. A/f 12.06-12.22