New 60-1, bad bearings? Help!
01-05-03, 02:52 PM
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New 60-1, bad bearings? Help!
Hey guys,
Well, I finally got my new 60-1 on the car with the manifold i've been making, got the exhaust fab'd up and everything, and now I'm having some problems. The turbo oil feed line is straight from the stock location, and is a -6 line. The drain line is -10, going back to the front cover. The turbo itself is a run-of-the mill 60-1, standard shaft, no ball bearings, etc.
Anyways, When I start the car up, the turbo barely creeps around at idle, and it sortof looks like it's binding up a bit occasionally. Sometimes when the car is off and you spin the blades by hand, they will spin freely, and sometimes it seems to 'catch,' then spin freely as something is worked through (?). i tapped the block for the AN fittings, but then vacuumed out all the shavings. On top of this, the turbo oil feed looks like it comes directly from the oil filter, so I would not imagine that contamination is much of a problem. When I pull the feed line off the car after it is shut down, some oil drips out, so the turbo is certainly getting some lubrication.
I haven't really run it much yet, because I don't want to damage anything. the old turbo failed from what I though was low oil pressure all around (the front cover o-ring blew out, and I ran it for ~1000 miles before I noticed it). The end results were similar - it barely turned at idle, and only made 7 psi of boost with the wastegate tied shut.
Any ideas on what this could be? I'm pretty worried that there's something big wrong here. the line is not kinked, and I can blow through it easily, so I don't see what could be wrong. Is it possible that the oil filter is clogged somehow???
Help!,
Manolis
Well, I finally got my new 60-1 on the car with the manifold i've been making, got the exhaust fab'd up and everything, and now I'm having some problems. The turbo oil feed line is straight from the stock location, and is a -6 line. The drain line is -10, going back to the front cover. The turbo itself is a run-of-the mill 60-1, standard shaft, no ball bearings, etc.
Anyways, When I start the car up, the turbo barely creeps around at idle, and it sortof looks like it's binding up a bit occasionally. Sometimes when the car is off and you spin the blades by hand, they will spin freely, and sometimes it seems to 'catch,' then spin freely as something is worked through (?). i tapped the block for the AN fittings, but then vacuumed out all the shavings. On top of this, the turbo oil feed looks like it comes directly from the oil filter, so I would not imagine that contamination is much of a problem. When I pull the feed line off the car after it is shut down, some oil drips out, so the turbo is certainly getting some lubrication.
I haven't really run it much yet, because I don't want to damage anything. the old turbo failed from what I though was low oil pressure all around (the front cover o-ring blew out, and I ran it for ~1000 miles before I noticed it). The end results were similar - it barely turned at idle, and only made 7 psi of boost with the wastegate tied shut.
Any ideas on what this could be? I'm pretty worried that there's something big wrong here. the line is not kinked, and I can blow through it easily, so I don't see what could be wrong. Is it possible that the oil filter is clogged somehow???
Help!,
Manolis
01-06-03, 12:21 AM
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Red-Rx7: I think it's an oil supply problem now. I'm going to run outside and check to see if it's getting decent pressure outta that fitting. Lol, yeah, my brother mentioned that he told someone my SN on the forum 
I'll be back inside in a few minutes... off to go make a huge mess
-manolis
I'll be back inside in a few minutes... off to go make a huge mess
-manolis
01-06-03, 01:05 PM
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Bah, had a long message all typed out yesterday evening after figuring everything out, and, of course, the forum lagged and then the power went out... beautiful..
Here's a summary of it though!
Everything seems to be working OK. I took the oil feed line off last night and stuck it in the oil inlet (the main one for the engine), and fired the car up (after making sure the turbo couldn't spin), and it spat out a healthy stream of oil. I then reconnected everything and fired it up. At first it sortof moved around really slowly, but once I revved it up a bit (~1500 rpm) it kicked into motion and stayed spinning quickly / smoothly at about an 1100 rpm idle. I think I broke my throttle position sensor, but even so the engine revs up quite nicely -- a definite improvement. And I think i figured out what the problem was with the engine 'hanging' around 2000 rpm (when i revved it lightly it wouldn't drop down, but would rather rev up a couple hundred rpm before dropping back to idle)_. I think that was caused by some funky smog thing that I botched (oops).
Anways, It may have just been some junk in the lines or something that made it hard to spin. We'll find out! I'm going to change the oil / filter today hopefully and keep a close eye on things.
Thanks,
Manolis
Here's a summary of it though!
Everything seems to be working OK. I took the oil feed line off last night and stuck it in the oil inlet (the main one for the engine), and fired the car up (after making sure the turbo couldn't spin), and it spat out a healthy stream of oil. I then reconnected everything and fired it up. At first it sortof moved around really slowly, but once I revved it up a bit (~1500 rpm) it kicked into motion and stayed spinning quickly / smoothly at about an 1100 rpm idle. I think I broke my throttle position sensor, but even so the engine revs up quite nicely -- a definite improvement. And I think i figured out what the problem was with the engine 'hanging' around 2000 rpm (when i revved it lightly it wouldn't drop down, but would rather rev up a couple hundred rpm before dropping back to idle)_. I think that was caused by some funky smog thing that I botched (oops).
Anways, It may have just been some junk in the lines or something that made it hard to spin. We'll find out! I'm going to change the oil / filter today hopefully and keep a close eye on things.
Thanks,
Manolis
01-06-03, 01:35 PM
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The reason I asked, is I had the same problem.
My turbo would sometimes spin freely, but other times seem to "catch" on something... It would only "occasionally" spin @ idle. Other times, it would sit there like the car was off.
Sure, you rev it it would turn, but.... I was curious anyways. My turbo is long gone.
Mike
My turbo would sometimes spin freely, but other times seem to "catch" on something... It would only "occasionally" spin @ idle. Other times, it would sit there like the car was off.
Sure, you rev it it would turn, but.... I was curious anyways. My turbo is long gone.
Mike
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01-06-03, 02:25 PM
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Hey mike,
When you say your turbo is 'long gone,' do you mean the bearings are fried?, or did it work OK and you just got rid of it
The thing was working great last night. I had to rev it just once (<2k rpm though) and then it stayed spinning for like 10 minutes until i shut things down.
Is that something I should be concerned with? I've still got to make some braces for the manifold, amongst some other stuff, so I won't be driving it for a few days anyhow.
Thanks,
Manolis
When you say your turbo is 'long gone,' do you mean the bearings are fried?, or did it work OK and you just got rid of it
The thing was working great last night. I had to rev it just once (<2k rpm though) and then it stayed spinning for like 10 minutes until i shut things down.
Is that something I should be concerned with? I've still got to make some braces for the manifold, amongst some other stuff, so I won't be driving it for a few days anyhow.
Thanks,
Manolis
01-06-03, 04:39 PM
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Well, I settled for the same thing you did.
It was a 60-1 "p" trim, with a 1.15 AR exhaust housing.
I just figued it was suppose to be like that.... but others advised against it. At the time I was so excited about the single turbo, it didn't bother me.
Well, the turbo did have problems. Not sure if it was do to me or not.
1) What kind of restrictor are you using for your oil line to feed the turbo? ** I hope you are using one! ** I didn't at first, and thought this may have been the problem. The stock oil feeding lines on the FD3S is like 120 PSI or something. The turbos were only suppose to be fed at 45-60 PSI. This was what I was told. I figured this was causing it to be sluggish.
I also had a seal problem with mine. It seemed like the oil was being fed in both directions. I did all kinds of stuff to alieveate and "proposed" oil pan pressure. But the turbo was definatly burning oil.... ONLY when I let off the gas.
My engine ended up grenading, and destroying the turbo. I never found out what the problem was. I created my own restrictor, using a holly carb.
Not sure either way. I was curious, because it sounded like the same deal.
Oh yeah! One other thing. It seemed like the Exhaust housing was putting a bind on the turbo. I did a test where I had a buddy push on the exhaust housing (a very small amount), and this caused the turbo to spin freely.
I took it all apart 100 times thinking there was a binding problem. I was able to find nothing, and just lived with it.
If I were you, I would look into it further.
Mike
It was a 60-1 "p" trim, with a 1.15 AR exhaust housing.
I just figued it was suppose to be like that.... but others advised against it. At the time I was so excited about the single turbo, it didn't bother me.
Well, the turbo did have problems. Not sure if it was do to me or not.
1) What kind of restrictor are you using for your oil line to feed the turbo? ** I hope you are using one! ** I didn't at first, and thought this may have been the problem. The stock oil feeding lines on the FD3S is like 120 PSI or something. The turbos were only suppose to be fed at 45-60 PSI. This was what I was told. I figured this was causing it to be sluggish.
I also had a seal problem with mine. It seemed like the oil was being fed in both directions. I did all kinds of stuff to alieveate and "proposed" oil pan pressure. But the turbo was definatly burning oil.... ONLY when I let off the gas.
My engine ended up grenading, and destroying the turbo. I never found out what the problem was. I created my own restrictor, using a holly carb.
Not sure either way. I was curious, because it sounded like the same deal.
Oh yeah! One other thing. It seemed like the Exhaust housing was putting a bind on the turbo. I did a test where I had a buddy push on the exhaust housing (a very small amount), and this caused the turbo to spin freely.
I took it all apart 100 times thinking there was a binding problem. I was able to find nothing, and just lived with it.
If I were you, I would look into it further.
Mike
01-06-03, 08:14 PM
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Hmm...
I called Innovative today (that's where I bought the turbo) and they agreed that a -4 line was the proper one to use. Is there an effective way of reducing the flow of a -6 line (preferably getting as close to -4 flow as possible).
They also said that at this point it's probably best just to run it to see what happens. If there is excessive lag or anything, then to give them a call back. We'll see!
When your buddy pushed on the housing, which way did he push it? Did he push it 'in' towards the compressor housing, or sideways?
-Manolis
I called Innovative today (that's where I bought the turbo) and they agreed that a -4 line was the proper one to use. Is there an effective way of reducing the flow of a -6 line (preferably getting as close to -4 flow as possible).
They also said that at this point it's probably best just to run it to see what happens. If there is excessive lag or anything, then to give them a call back. We'll see!
When your buddy pushed on the housing, which way did he push it? Did he push it 'in' towards the compressor housing, or sideways?
-Manolis
01-06-03, 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Manolis_D
Hmm...
I called Innovative today (that's where I bought the turbo) and they agreed that a -4 line was the proper one to use. Is there an effective way of reducing the flow of a -6 line (preferably getting as close to -4 flow as possible).
They also said that at this point it's probably best just to run it to see what happens. If there is excessive lag or anything, then to give them a call back. We'll see!
When your buddy pushed on the housing, which way did he push it? Did he push it 'in' towards the compressor housing, or sideways?
-Manolis
Hmm...
I called Innovative today (that's where I bought the turbo) and they agreed that a -4 line was the proper one to use. Is there an effective way of reducing the flow of a -6 line (preferably getting as close to -4 flow as possible).
They also said that at this point it's probably best just to run it to see what happens. If there is excessive lag or anything, then to give them a call back. We'll see!
When your buddy pushed on the housing, which way did he push it? Did he push it 'in' towards the compressor housing, or sideways?
-Manolis
But anyways...thats not the problem at hand. You need to restrict the turbo some way with a orifice. It's real simple to do if you have a drill and a pipe tap. What size fitting do you have going into your turbo? 1/8" pipe? 1/4" pipe?? You can see what I did you my banjo bolt that goes into my turbo. I would just do the same to your fitting that you have going into your turbo. I just drilled with a 1/4" bit, used a 1/16" pipe tap, drilled a socket head pipe plug to .081" and screwd it together. It's simple and cheep
plus you can "tune" your oil supply by swaping out different drilled plugs But I would ask Innovative what size hole to drill in your orifice if you do it like I did. My turbo may have different oil demands than yours.oh yeah, lets see some pic's of the install!
-Cam
01-07-03, 12:11 AM
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1FastT2: Thanks for the heads up! I just came back inside from idling the car / monkeying around with the haltech a bit. It idled for about 20 minutes at ~1200rpm, and the turbo is definitely spinning faster than before. If i stop it at idle now w/ my finger (takes some care... it's moving quickly) then it still sortof creeps around slowly until you blip the throttle (or give it a little flick), but that may just be the way they work.
Setzep: Heh, don't worry... I just came off of christmas break from school (weeeeee... senior in high school, no more work), during which I worked on the car no less than 3-6 hours a day, including christmas . I've got a 1/8" pipe fitting going to the turbo from a -6 line, and a 1/4" pipe fitting coming off the block in the stock location. Innovative recommended going to a -4 line today, but I'll call them back tomorrow and ask what size orifice to use, as I can't really afford buying another line.
I'll work on getting some pics tomorrow. Things are almost done. I have to pick up some more hose clamps for the IC piping, make some actual mounts for the IC, get a smaller battery (running off the stock one jammed in there at a funky angle now), weld up some braces for the manifold (one from flange to flange, the other to the motor mount), and pick up some vacuum fittings for the wastegate. I also have to connect the smog pump back up / fudge that whole emissions thing, and then buy another TPS for the Haltech (dropped the TB and broke it... DOH!)
Then, after changing the tranny fluid (it's eating my syncros, argh!), my 1680cc injectors should have arrived, so I'll have to tear it apart again to install those
hehe... it's not quite there
Thanks!
Manolis
Setzep: Heh, don't worry... I just came off of christmas break from school (weeeeee... senior in high school, no more work
), during which I worked on the car no less than 3-6 hours a day, including christmas . I've got a 1/8" pipe fitting going to the turbo from a -6 line, and a 1/4" pipe fitting coming off the block in the stock location. Innovative recommended going to a -4 line today, but I'll call them back tomorrow and ask what size orifice to use, as I can't really afford buying another line.I'll work on getting some pics tomorrow. Things are almost done. I have to pick up some more hose clamps for the IC piping, make some actual mounts for the IC, get a smaller battery (running off the stock one jammed in there at a funky angle now), weld up some braces for the manifold (one from flange to flange, the other to the motor mount), and pick up some vacuum fittings for the wastegate. I also have to connect the smog pump back up / fudge that whole emissions thing, and then buy another TPS for the Haltech (dropped the TB and broke it... DOH!)
Then, after changing the tranny fluid (it's eating my syncros, argh!), my 1680cc injectors should have arrived, so I'll have to tear it apart again to install those
hehe... it's not quite there
Thanks!
Manolis
01-07-03, 01:43 AM
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Im not using a restrictor in mine for the last 2500 miles. been fine, but i will look into again. mine took a bit for it to free up and spin like its supposed to and not "hang up" anywhere.
Jason
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01-07-03, 07:26 AM
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I have the same T60-1 turbo as you guys and mine kinda did the samething where the car would be idling 5-700rpm's (cold) and the turbo would hardly spin, and this was right out of the box new... When that was going on I had just installed a stand alone ecu so I was trying to get it to idle faster and once it was around 700-1000rpms it was just fine.... I did think that was odd at first though.....As I said now the turbo is fine so give it some time to break in......
Brad
Brad
