My Lesson...417rwhp@19psi
10-13-07 | 09:45 PM
#51
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Union, NJ
I know Atkins offered a regular seal and then a cryogenicly treated seal.
Their regular ones are weaker then oem ones and I personnaly would not run 19psi with them, unless they changed recently.
I have one example where one failed with no apparent obvious reason and when customer called Atkins for a replacement they were nice to send him 3 new ones at no charge.
As far as the cryo treated ones I have no info. Ernie has used them and mayne he will shed some light on them.
JD
10-13-07 | 11:02 PM
#52
Sorry, did not mean to blame the seals alone.
I know Atkins offered a regular seal and then a cryogenicly treated seal.
Their regular ones are weaker then oem ones and I personnaly would not run 19psi with them, unless they changed recently.
I have one example where one failed with no apparent obvious reason and when customer called Atkins for a replacement they were nice to send him 3 new ones at no charge.
As far as the cryo treated ones I have no info. Ernie has used them and mayne he will shed some light on them.
JD
I know Atkins offered a regular seal and then a cryogenicly treated seal.
Their regular ones are weaker then oem ones and I personnaly would not run 19psi with them, unless they changed recently.
I have one example where one failed with no apparent obvious reason and when customer called Atkins for a replacement they were nice to send him 3 new ones at no charge.
As far as the cryo treated ones I have no info. Ernie has used them and mayne he will shed some light on them.
JD
not sure if they have changed but I am running up 26psi so far on them.
10-14-07 | 12:46 AM
#54
The first weak-link is the fuel. It almost always is, without exception, on these street-driven cars that aim for and exceed 400hp when sticking to using pump gas. I was thinking about this on the way home today, actually. The problem is the compromise of the charge temperature that shoots up into the stratosphere during the compression stroke. Pump fuels are notoriously volatile and unstable and what happens is that fuel, during compression and prior to spark, essentially explodes on its own due to the heat created. The replies given here regarding intercooling and intake air temperatures (IAT's) will have an effect, but not a substantial enough one to counteract or workaround the problem with the fuel itself. In plain English, it's just not designed for the highly-modified RE environment that we regularly subject it to.
B
B
10-14-07 | 06:00 AM
#55
Coyote
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 953
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From: Malta. Europe
more then boost its more an issue of flow....As Karack ^ stated.....i blew my engine on a ported non sequential engine.....at 21psi.... ran my to4r to 21PSI WOT and no problems.... so flow is very very essential in boost and detonation issues.
ps. same fuel and ignition map.....no mods in split... just the turbo. Fuel system as is.1680/1000
ps. same fuel and ignition map.....no mods in split... just the turbo. Fuel system as is.1680/1000
10-16-07 | 03:41 PM
#56
well, 18 PSI is as high as i would ever tell anyone to push on pump fuel without knock suppression. and that is damn near pushing the limits of pump fuel even with a nice flowing IC with low intake charge temps.
10-17-07 | 01:47 PM
#61
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 930
Likes: 13
From: Slidell, LA
Between the stock map sensor and the stock ignition you didn't have a prayer.
13 psi was my limit on the stock ignition.
17 psi is the limit on the stock map sensor.
Your plan for the HKS Twin Power is sound. Add the 3 bar sensor.
Spraying AI of some sort might eliminate the need for both the extra fuel and the V-mount.
Barry
13 psi was my limit on the stock ignition.
17 psi is the limit on the stock map sensor.
Your plan for the HKS Twin Power is sound. Add the 3 bar sensor.
Spraying AI of some sort might eliminate the need for both the extra fuel and the V-mount.
Barry
10-17-07 | 03:54 PM
#62
That right there sir, is one of your problems if not the biggest, As stated the stock map sensor can(should) only be used up to about 17 psi. And thatis already pushing it. Any more than that and you are asking for serious trouble.
Good luck with your next motor
Good luck with your next motor
10-17-07 | 07:40 PM
#63
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Union, NJ
You then later switched to black seals (from Kenny) and now you're running Atkin regular seals, whatever happen to the black seals ?
JD
10-17-07 | 07:47 PM
#64
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From: Union, NJ
Oh damn! that's gonna be a problem.
Stock map sensor reaches its max voltage @ 17-17.5psi (like someone else mentioned) therefore any higher boost you will be lean and too much ignition advance..........recipe for failure no matter what seals you run.
JD
Stock map sensor reaches its max voltage @ 17-17.5psi (like someone else mentioned) therefore any higher boost you will be lean and too much ignition advance..........recipe for failure no matter what seals you run.
JD
10-17-07 | 09:05 PM
#65
Living life 9 seconds at a time
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From: Abingdon, Md
Let me explain how it all went down to date. My first motor didn't have the 2 piece shaft in it when i made 643rwhp on a sp. When I got the E-shaft, Ray put in the black seals. I made 713rwhp, but warped the apex seals on the dyno. After that we have used nothing but regular old apex seals from Atkins, even in the bridgeported motor. So Im not a fan of the black seals. Ray and I have changed a few things to prevent warping so in the end it probably doesn't matter what seals you have if your setup is money. I've had my bridgeport since July 4th and she's still running strong after MANY dyno pulls and about 15 or so passes down the track. Now Ray is throwing a 50shot on it for the last race just for kicks. So if it blows to high heaven I've got all winter, lol..
10-17-07 | 09:13 PM
#66
Let me explain how it all went down to date. My first motor didn't have the 2 piece shaft in it when i made 643rwhp on a sp. When I got the E-shaft, Ray put in the black seals. I made 713rwhp, but warped the apex seals on the dyno. After that we have used nothing but regular old apex seals from Atkins, even in the bridgeported motor. So Im not a fan of the black seals. Ray and I have changed a few things to prevent warping so in the end it probably doesn't matter what seals you have if your setup is money. I've had my bridgeport since July 4th and she's still running strong after MANY dyno pulls and about 15 or so passes down the track. Now Ray is throwing a 50shot on it for the last race just for kicks. So if it blows to high heaven I've got all winter, lol..
So, did you have your current atkins cryo'd ?
10-17-07 | 09:35 PM
#68
10-17-07 | 09:42 PM
#69
Living life 9 seconds at a time
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From: Abingdon, Md
Rich knows more about those, but supposedly they are VERY soft and were deemed "defective". I may be wrong, its been along time and I would rather forget that time period, lol..
10-17-07 | 09:44 PM
#70
10-17-07 | 10:03 PM
#71
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
10-17-07 | 10:40 PM
#73
10-18-07 | 01:06 AM
#74
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 867
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From: Union, NJ
Let me explain how it all went down to date. My first motor didn't have the 2 piece shaft in it when i made 643rwhp on a sp. When I got the E-shaft, Ray put in the black seals. I made 713rwhp, but warped the apex seals on the dyno. After that we have used nothing but regular old apex seals from Atkins, even in the bridgeported motor. So Im not a fan of the black seals. Ray and I have changed a few things to prevent warping so in the end it probably doesn't matter what seals you have if your setup is money. I've had my bridgeport since July 4th and she's still running strong after MANY dyno pulls and about 15 or so passes down the track. Now Ray is throwing a 50shot on it for the last race just for kicks. So if it blows to high heaven I've got all winter, lol..
I've had a set of black seals to try out, since no one knows how they would behave in a daily driven motor.....I may just leave the OEM seals alone.
3-17-07
ernie,
if you don't mind telling us, i'm wondering this as well. i assume you're using the ra super seals, if so how do like them so far?
JD
Last edited by Boostn7; 10-18-07 at 01:31 AM.
10-18-07 | 03:27 AM
#75
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Malta. Europe
hmmm may sound stupid, but is the apexi 3 bar the same one that comes with the Apexi AVCR kit? the round black plastic sensor with the brass nipple at the bottom????....
I mean do you wire that up to give you the voltage needed for the ecu????? it looks so puny compared to the GM 3 bar...
sorry for hijacking.... but its on the same lines.
I have used the RA seals for a while and the Atkins apex seal springs....
no issues yet ... will dyno a GT45 6 port next friday... will try to get some prints....