At this moment, I'm running a LM-1 wideband. The question I have is if there is anyway I can extend the life of a sensor while running leaded fuel. The reason I ask, is that I have a friend who works at an airport. From what he said, when a plane lands, and it has any fuel left over, its pumped out of the plane and into drums. Well....guess what? He can get it to me for next to nothing.

Would the placement of the sensor in the DP effect the life of it? Or is there any other tricks that would extend the life of it? CJ

 

As far as i know leaded fuel ruins o2 sensors pretty quick. I really dont see any way to extend the life of it.

 

Make sure to determine what fuel this is exactly, as there are several different kinds of aviation fuel(including kerosene which you absolutely don't want). The most common is 100LL. This is used exclusively in piston powered aircraft. Given the cost of the fuel, I have never heard of anyone practising this procedure on any aircraft. When a plane lands it retains its fuel load and is topped up.

Now, I've run 100LL in my car a few times. It leaves white/gray deposits on tailpipes and O2 sensors. There doesn't appear to be any short term effects on sensor accuracy.

 

hmmmm weird..... no leaded fuel in aviation industry....no one pumps it out..... and definately no one or airline gives fuel for free.... fuel is good to be used for the next sector, and with the fuel surcharges and cost cutting the airlines are going through no one is gonna give you his black gold as a favour....

ps... i have been commercially flying for 10 years now also in the US apart europe middle east africa and eeu...and this procedure was never adopted! your friend is playing you for dumb to say the least!

 

Since when is there no leaded fuel in the aviation industry? 100LL <low lead> has been around for years. I would stay far away from 100LL though, its only low lead in comarison to older aviation formula, I believe it still has MORE lead than most leaded automotive fuels. Also its oxygenation and other characteristics are designed for high altitudes, it's far from an optimum fuel to use in a car, and our cars are awful touchy to risk using whatever dregs of fuel you get out of a plane. And regardless of how he's doing it, getting 100LL isn't exactly hard, some kids around here that work at the airport routinely "borrow" 5 gallons to run in their cars or their friends cars.

 

.bad post

 

5 gallons of Leaded 100 LL are not enough to totaly much up the wide band.

pumped out of planes into drums (45Gal ones right?).... yeh right.... since when is this practice? I never said you cant get fuel occasionally... even i do.... but its never from pumped out fuel from landed aircraft....

why do you throw away the fuel in your car prior to top up at the station???

drums of it then.... good luck bro.... i will buy some off you if its ok...

appologies... I made some reseach on the TEL level... and you are right. i bow my head. But still the arguement holds for the 'drums' and defueling.
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/187232-1.html

I prove you right with regards to the level of lead.

Regards

G

 

The sensors I use are BOSCH LSU 7057. See this page for information regarding use with leaded fuels: http://www.wbo2.com/lsu/lsu4.htm

Their lifespan is shortened, but still useable. Besides, all you need is to tune with the wideband every once in a while. No need to drive around town with the wideband sensor plugged in all the time.

I plan on doing more testing with this fuel, assuming prices remain reasonably low.

 

No where did I say that it was free. And, the guy I know is a very reliable person. I'll have to get in touch with him again, and see what he has to say about it.

CJ

 

I work for a company that produces 4 place sport aircraft. They are all piston engines. Some FBOs do not reintroduce fuel into air crafts for fear of contamination. There are a few grades of fuel and there would be too much cost in having a containment unit for each type of fuel. Also there is no way to identify what the owner has added to the fuel. The amount of lead in 100LL is less then what was in leaded pump gas when it was available. Here are some other facts about av gas. It will coat the O2 sensor. but not as bad as C16.

Aviation gasoline, avgas, is required to be an all hydrocarbon product. That is, its components must be chemicals that contain only carbon and hydrogen atoms. The use of oxygenated, chemicals that include oxygen atoms, compounds such as alcohols or ethers, is not permitted. Only a few select additives are permitted and their use is strictly controlled and limited. The primary ingredient in avgas is isooctane. This is a special component produced in the refining process by specialized equipment. Small amounts of isopentane and aromatic (ring) compounds are also used. The isopentane allows the correct volatility to be achieved in the final fuel blend. Aromatics are used to improve the rich mixture ratings. However, these aromatics must be limited to achieve other specifications. Grade 80 avgas may also contain straight-run gasoline but this component's lower octane rating makes it unsuitable for higher octane blends. Approved additives include alkyl-lead anti-knock additives. Other additives are also used to then control lead deposit formation. Color dyes are required in most grades for safety identification. Another common, and required, additive includes oxidation inhibitors to improve storage stability and inhibit gum formation. Theses anti-oxidant additives also help prevent lead compound precipitation (separation). Other additives such as corrosion inhibitors, fuel system icing inhibitor and static dissipator additives may also be included by agreement with the user, by the military or by some foreign specifications. All other additives are forbidden.

 

So, the question is, how long a life should I expect with LL100? CJ

 

See the page I linked a few posts ago. It gives lifetime estimates for BOSCH LSU sensors, which I think the LM-1 uses.

I've also run this fuel with narrowband sensors. Unheated sensors work, but the 4-wire heated sensor I use provides much quicker readings after starting. Again no short term damage to the sensor as with the wideband.

 

Got a MSDS from work today on 100LL ESSO AVIATAION GASOLINE. Aparrently the lead content is so low that it is not even considered a health risk. It is not even mentioned in any of the three pages.

 

I ran 10 gallons of 112 leaded fuel and it killed my wideband. I mixed it I ran 5 gallons to a tank full. Did this twice and it killed my 02.

Johny

 

Well Johny you beat me to it. I've always found that 100+ will eat an 02 before a full tank is empty. I can tell you FOR SURE that most tuning shops will bill you for a new 02 in your tuning charges. (if you use theirs)

 

some comments from afar...and potential use of the Bosch sensor with a LM-1 setup for extended life with leaded fuel

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...&highlight=lm1

 

I killed a wide band in about 7 seconds running C 16.