Find me the point in the bits I quoted from Justin where he says there have been no problems with the Ks. Find me the part that says there have been problems?

Of course there are problems with ANYTHING!! I know there was a run of ECUs that had a dodgy diode in them. They had actually been labelled with the wrong resistance from the factory Haltech bought them from. I know of 2 mates cars that had this happen. I know another flaw in early release ones was they clapped out if you ran a battery charger on them, it spiked the ECU. This has also been fixed after it happened to me.

Bottom line? Don't jump to conclusions. You want to hear something from Justin? Ring +61 2 9525 2400 and ask for Justin, he is the most up front guy I know and will gladly tell you everything you need to know about Haltechs, be it good or bad.

And if you are talking about Romeos car, sweet! Great car and I can't wait till it runs 9s!

 

Dodgy diodes, wrong resistors and ....... This doesn't seem too upfront to me. This was not mentioned in the earlier post blaming everything else.

This happened to you as well? I thought it was all EMI RF noise, improper installation, etc. This is what I'm talking about. Now we are finally getting somewhere. Now what were the effects of the dodgy diodes and incorrect resistance in the circuit, thats what I want to know. I would like to know if there is any thing else that any one has experienced.

I would like to save time by knowing all possible issues that could occur.

Steve, thank's for you honest reply and best of luck with your first gen. Remember the secret recipe, if you can't beat them turn up the boost, just be sure to add the right amount (and kind) of fuel and ignite it at the right time.


--Wayne

 

Wayne - The original post before any of this, was about innacurate ignition on Haltechs. Justin answered this question. If the post had been about issues experienced by Haltech users and any factory based faults, he would have answered those questions.

The faulty diodes just fucked the ECU and killed it. The ECU stopped giving signals out, so if it happened while you were up it, unless I am mistaken, the car would stall as there would be ZERO fuel going into the engine and no spark to fire it anyway. So no engine blow up.

The wrong resistors fried the ECU when a charger was applied. If you are doing a quarter mile pass with a battery charger attached, well youdeserve what you get

Thanks for the encouragement! I am turning the boost up, lots of C16 is going in and it will be fired at the right time. I just have to find an MSD 6A that I can use to make sure the spark is the right size and strength! So if you know anyone that could lend me one till the end of June, it would be appreciated I will pay shipping of course and yes I am serious....

 

DoH!


-Ted

 

This thread did stray away from the main topic. I did get a little off topic with the issues I've seen. As for the original question, I have never seen "very inaccurate igniton timing" or I would not even bother tuning a haltech unit. The issue still lingers as to why some racers do not want to use Haltech to control their ignition. Still waiting for you distributer guys to respond..

 

I think it might come down to they don't fully know how to use it?

As someone else said, and Justin agreed, ignition control in alot of these cars is overkill!

 

Try this: Put a timing light to a rotary's ignition that is using a factory distributor, or a stock ECU at anything from 6k-11krpms and at least 15psi, then go try the same thing with any rotary using Haltech to control igniton timing(E6S,K,etc.) and see which one fluctuates the timing light, what you'll see from the Haltech will surprise you(it did me). (BTW, try this with the timing locked on the Haltech so that you make sure you're not getting any adjustment from the unit.) Anthony NYC, I posted this for you since you asked me to respond about it.

 

Tell us the results!

 

Would you like your timing to fluctuate about 2-3 degrees(from what I saw with my eyes) and getting worse the higher the rpm you go? That should answer your question.

 

That's what I figured. I just wanted to be sure that's what you meant. Thanks.

 

Okay, I'll bite...
WTF were doing doing boosting up to 15psi with the timing locked???
WTF were you doing spinning past 9kRPM???&nbsp The stock ECU won't even go past 9kRPM, so how can you claim it'll run up to 11kRPM with the stock ECU?

I'd like to know exactly WHAT Haltech ECU you "saw" this on.&nbsp The E6A (and I've heard E6S) had some ignition inconsistency issues, but the E6K has supposedly cure all of those problems.&nbsp Stop making blanket statements if you can't back it up...it sounds like you have a big beef against Haltech to begin with.



-Ted

 

Thanks for the reply Rx94.

THis entire thread started because numerous people have mentioned issues with Haltech and timing. I just wanted to see if everyone would speak out and sure enough, many have.

I did have to return a brand new Haltech. THe issue with that E6k was it would not communicate with the laptop via the serial port. I believe it was the rs232 chip or something to that nature.

I've been following this thread closely Rx94 stated exactly why he thinks Haltech has issues with timing. He has seen it first hand.

I wonder if all the guys running E6's and K's but with distributors for timing are reading this!!! If you are, i'm just curious why you went that route.

**This thread is no way any flame against Haltech ECU's, I have a K in my car and it works flawlessly. For the price and features, you cannot beat the K. I have heard all these claims about Haltech and timing issues and I wanted to hear from all the non-believers on why and their proof***

Thanks for all replies.

Anthony

 

I don't have any beef with ANY programmable ECU's, I'm just writing what I saw firsthand on my friends E6K controlled drag car(now converted to dist.), and what I wrote about the stock ECU, I meant a reprogrammed one(sorry for not writing that), and you're asking what I was doing with the timing locked? well you can only really be sure that the ignition isn't told to move by locking the timing, that's the only way to tell if it moves. As far as the rpm, well this was a drag car ya know. The only reason we tested this was because we wanted to see how much the timing moved around, that's all, I'm not bashing anything, just stating what I saw. Haltech works for how much it costs, and the simplicity of tuning the unit, if you took this the wrong way, well then sorry, you do what you want, I'm only telling you what I saw.

 

I've never seen more than 1&#176 of spark scatter myself with an E6K, if there was any inconsistencies.&nbsp I've seen waaaaaay too many BADLY installed EMS's (not just Haltech) that contributed to badly firing ignition system.&nbsp Some were obvious (input wires too close to spark plugs)...some were not so obvious (bad engine ground)...&nbsp I think it's safe to say that 99% of the time, the problem is with the install and not intrinsic to the unit performance itself.&nbsp It's the same thing with car audio electronics - too many bad installs with misinformation flying that lead to bad raps.

I know that Haltech ECU's do go bad.&nbsp I know of a number of them which have died (no response), no connectivity (like AnthonyNYC mentioned - actually quite a FEW), or sporadic ignition input readings (bad resistor on IC board) that Haltech USA will quickly fix and turn around.

When someone mentions extreme spark scatter (i.e. inconsistent ignition timing), I'd blame the inept install over the unit design (not just Haltech) itself first...&nbsp Hell, it could've been a defective unit, for all we know...




-Ted

 

From the Haltech Support List....This all started after the car died instantly in 3rd gear......


> Sorry about the last one. I hit the enter key....
>
> I'm having a stalling issue with my 10th AE,Serie's
> V Jspec and new E6K.
> A week ago I raced my little brother and on the
> second run the car died instantly in 3rd gear. I
> coasted to a stop and it fired back up. I was low on
> fuel and guessed that must of been it, although that's
> a pretty scary way to find out.
>
> I didn't drive it much this week but this morning me
> and a buddy drove 30 miles to get some exhaust work
> done. On the way back cruising on the highway the car
> died again. This time it wouldn't restart at first. I
> have a mechanical fuel pressure guage and pressure was
> fine. We checked for spark and had none on either the
> leading or trailing coils. Tried again and it fired
> right up. It went another mile and it did it again. So
> this time we let it idle and sure enough, after a
> couple minutes of idling the car dies, and INSTANTLY!
> Doesn't matter if the e-fans on or not. Car runs
> perfect otherwise with temps ranging from 186-190. I
> ended up towing it home since it was too dangerous to
> try and drive in traffic with it stalling.
>
> I got it home and put a new CAS in hoping that was
> it but of course it wasn't. I'm thinking it's either
> a defective Haltech or something with the stock
> relay's that power the coils since that's the only
> stock wiring left in the engine management. I'm going
> to put a VOM on the coil+ and see what happen's when
> it die's tomorrow. Problem is I had to idle it for 30
> minutes after putting the CAS in before it would stall
> again. Seems to be a heat related issue. My E6K
> reading's look all normal and it appears to function
> fine while the car doesn't. Ecu is mounted in the
> stock location.
>
> Any suggestions from the expert's?
>
> Thanks, Scott


Well guy's I've found the problem with it stalling.

It shut off again today several times while idling.
I had a buddy came over and we switched his Hal for
mine. It fired right up. Then we switched it
immediately back and it wouldn't start. After it set a
few minutes it would start and run for a little while
again before shutting down. I called Ari and I'm
going to send it to Haltech for service. Hell, what's
a few more weeks at this point??? Maybe I'll get to
drive it before winter.....

I thought these things were reliable enough that
they put them in airplanes? I'd hate to be a pilot
that got mine. ;/ Not meaning to be ranting here, I
know overall they are a pretty reliable ECU. It's just
been too long of a project for this guy. My patience
is wearing thin.

On the upside, I guess they can sort out the O2
reading problem. Maybe they're even related.

Scott

 

Damn, those dodgy diodes.
Never mind being the pilot, imagine tuning at high altitude playing with the barometric compensation and then all of a sudden.....and then after three minutes after coasting and sweating it finally starts again. I love happy endings.

 

Hmmm, since AnthonyNYC pasted my email from the Haltech list maybe I should set the record straight based on the topic of this post.

I've had NO timing problems and my car runs perfect, when it runs.;/

I don't think this problem is the norm because I know many people with reliable Haltechs. My only fear is what I've seen many in the electronics industry do. They'll build a great product and build a customer base, then to increase profits they go find a cheap mfg'r to pump 'em out and to hell with the quality.

I do know Haltech severely need's to increase the body count at their Dallas facility. They are woefully behind. They can't keep the units on the shelves either so you'd think they'd want to support a hot seller both by building more units and supporting the ones out there???

My .02

Scott

 

Sorry Scott, but I'm partly to blame for taking the subject on a tangent. Anthony originally inquired about haltechs accuracy in the ignition department.

The post was seeming to come to a close with a sarcastic statement ,with a smile, about blaming the ECU when in doubt.

Having seen several different issues, including your own, I went off on a tangent with issues I've seen. non related to "inaccurate timing"

 

waynespeed - Go back and read what I pasted from Justin. He says it himself, the easiest thing to blame is the ECU.

How many times have you heard it yourself? As soon as ANYTHING goes wrong with the running of a car, its the ECU. It has a miss, must be the ECU. I have even done it myself!

9 times out of 10 it isn't the ECU. I was having massive problems with my car around this time last year. 10psi of boost, any gear, the car would fall over and pop and fart. Disconnect trail coil and the car runs fine. Trail coil was changed and the same happened. Must be the ECU. Swapped the ECU out for another one that works, same thing happened. What was it that was wrong? The install. Justin rewired the car himself and the car came back running like a kitten.

Just last week I had some shocking miss, couldn't figure it out. The car would miss and the shift light that was running from the ECU would flicker, even though the car was not near the shift point. I thought the ECU was having a bat. Changed the coils, changed the home and gain, nothing worked. Went to swap the ECU out but tried plugs first and boom the car was going harder than ever.

The little "when in doubt blame the ECU" comment was not a sarcastic dig, it was pretty much a fact....

 

You thought the ECU was having a bat. No faith in your ECU? I bet if you had asked Matt he would have tell you to change your plugs.

Blame the ECU is usually said by people who cannot figure out an issue. Where it very well could be the ECU issue at times.

Always follow the "common sense" flow chart when out of the blue a car starts to miss or break up under boost. First and foremost pull the plugs. The last thing to do is change the program parameters- then you truly will be lost. Troubleshoot as if there was no ECU.

When in doubt datalog.


Steve, I do agree with you. I have too many times see the blaming of the ECU when it was either a electrcal or mechanical issue. The blaming however is said by someone who is usually not a tuner but looking to place blame on the most complex part of the system, which in most cases they do not understand.

I will state again, I have never seen inaccurate timing from a Haltech ECU. I have seen misses and such that was caused by DIP switch/jumper settings, coils too near to MSD signal modifiers etc.

Still we have only heard from one member about the main topic. Many choose to remain silent on the issue. Untill I see it for myself (inaccurate timing), I cannot "blame the ECU".

If you have any "issues" with any ECU always consult with your ECU dealer for their experience or a competent tuner.

 

hey my friend is working in 93 doing the haltech ,he is going nuts with this **** and is not the firts time working with the E6A he toll me the same thing E6A socks controling timing thats why I got a F9-A for second gen ,he is not the only one that tell me about it alot of people that have 8,9,10 second cars toll me that same ****

 

I have plenty of faith in the ECU, its the mindset though, everyone gets it from time to time

If I ever have problems, the first 2 people I call are Matt and then Justin and the problem is usually sorted out soon after

Before I got the car rewired last year, we had the car at Haltech in Sydney with Justin and another guy from Haltech looking at it. Even the best can get befuddled sometimes!