All,

I have had a Haltech installed im my 3rd gen for some time now. I also go to most events in the tri-state area and speak to many of the owners of fast rotaries to get "tips"

Anyway, I have been hearing from various sources that the Haltech's ignition control is very in-accurate. Some even refer to Haltech as "blow-tech".

Has anyone else ever heard these comments?

Is this why many of the faster rotaries are running the Haltech for fuel but timing with a distributor?

Thanks!

(I posted here since most single turbo users have a Haltech.)


Anthony

 

definitly not true, i cant think of the settings at this point in time but its on the ignition set up page, something can be changed in value from 1 thru to 5 or 6, its like the sensitivity of the igntion pick up, by changing the number there you should fix your problem, try changing it to either 1 above or 1 below whatever it is set at currently

 

From all accounts, the early E6A series had this reputation for bad ignition. Not sure the reasons but it seems the Ks have overcome these issues.

 

i'll let you know really soon hopefully next week

 

Boy, this better not turn into another EMS war!

Maybe you got info on what these guys who call them "Blow-Tech's" use?&nbsp Could it be Electromotive?


-Ted

 

here is my opinion, every time i talk to someone from PR about it they dont have any proof and just believe that the e6k has timing issues but none of them have actually used it. seems to me that if they trust haltech to control the fuel they outa trust it for timing! some of those guys are even using mechanical injection just for the simplicity! i think the timing is the same way, if dont want to mess with the timing on your car put a distributer on it,set it and move on.
how can a product as superior as haltech have shitty timing accuracy and why would they not fix it, seems to me that if your crank trigger is accurate what is going to make the timing fluctuate ( circuit board ). why not have full control of your timing i bet a distributer is not as accurate as a crank trigger (gear drives have to have clearance or they will bind).

there is nothing wrong with using a distributer but being able to adjust your timing per load and rpm cannot be beat.

my .02 cents

 

I have also heard these claims.
How does EMI & RFI sound?
These do not affect distributors but may affect any EFI unit. This may be an issue with those big MSD ignition units.

As for "BLOW TECH", Haltech has gotten the reputation because it is probably the most popular unit being installed by any and every body here. I know at least 10 guys in my area running Haltechs and if the engine blows the first thing to get look at is the Haltech having an issue. I know 2 cars with the WOLF 3D. They go through engines alot. I do not here anyone saying "BLOW WOLF".

 

Hey Moe, I think Anthony is talking about guys that blow up for no known reason. As far as blowing up while running 25psi on pump gas there is no
ECU that will save you (I know one on the Wolf 3D guys you are talking about).

I've also heard of Haltech having issues. I'm not the only one that have seen issues. I know many people that bought E6k's and had to return them to haltech.
Haltech did have issues.

I even remember CRISPEED saying something about them (haltechs) having a rep of blowing motors. He also uses a distributer.

Sometimes you must blame the driver, tuner and or the installer not the ECU. As far as the "BLOW WOLF" if you boosted you car with a stuck wastegate blame the wastegate not the ECU.


Has anyone here also had to return their Haltech units?

 

Wayne,
Mike sent his E6S back and it still didn't work when he got it back. The E6K that Tony was supposed to sell me didn't work and had to go back. Romeo was trying to blame my cracked plate on the Wolf, but it's just too much boost. I didn't check the maximum boost when I cracked my rear plate, but it may have been over 20 PSI...on Citgo 93. Even with my boost controller turned off I get 15 PSI in 2nd on my 14 PSI wastegate.

 

Crispeed uses an F9 for his drag car, where he keeps the ignition locked. An E6K would be wasted on that beast. He lives and promotes the E6K as being an outstanding product, especially for high performance street use where driveablity and tunability is a must.

 

OK.
I forgot this was a thread to beat on Haltech.
Any way on searching for the truth I mentioned that EMI & RFI may affect any ECU....
Spending more time on wiring and setup may help to prevent these problems.
I mentioned Wolf just to show that engines blow with other units. Since you guys are saying that the Haltech blows for no reason while the Wolf does not, then I guess that John Duarte is always doing some wrong with his 10 second RX7(Wolf 3D v3) and Winston with his 11.3 second Rx7(Wolf 3D v3). I do not know how many engines they have lost but I think it has been a few. Wayne, why did your last WOLF tuned engine let go?

No reason at all could be EMI or RFI or a faulty ground or wire connection. Who Knows. Could it be some of these Haltech units?
Would like see what John Duarte, Cripspeed, Judge-ito, Pepe Loco and the Hitman have to say.

 

Stand-alone EMS units are a curse for their own flexible design.
It's is just as easy (if not EASIER) to mess up the install and mistune the engine to blow it up than to properly install and tune them.&nbsp The SW20 guys HATE the Haltech cause one of their "gurus" tried to installed one of those things onto a 3S-GTE - the bad experience has stuck, and most of these guys hate Haltech.

PR racers are an interesting group.&nbsp They have run really fast with very minimal fuss.&nbsp My experience has been...if it works, why mess with it.&nbsp 3-rotors run on 12A moded distro would make any modern FI advocate cringe - yet, it works.&nbsp They still turbo carb their cars - it still works.

The effectiveness of the EMS is DIRECTLY related to the install(er) and tune(r).&nbsp Haphazard install and tuning is blow motors all day long...



-Ted

 

I have not seen any real issues with the E6K. The problem I have seen alot with these units are people setting their base timing totally incorrect. With the base timing incorrect everything else on the maps are incorrect. I have had no timing jumps or spikes like I have heard others had. I heve seen a lot of timing maps where the ignition curve is all over the place from rpm to rpm, these transitions need to be smooth in order not to have your timing all over the place.

Just a little info from my personal experience.

 

You may be right about the noise thing. I had to re-do my crank angle sensor wires with shielded wire and an extra layer of shielding to prevent misfires. So the noise thing could be an issue.

 

My apologies to John Duarte. I really do not know what is going on with his setup and I have not seen him in over a year. I have not been spending much time at the track. . In 1999 he was the local street guy to watch running in the high 10s with his WOLF 3D v3 unit.

 

Hey Moespeed:
>>I mentioned Wolf just to show that engines blow with other units. Since you guys are saying that the Haltech blows for no reason while the Wolf does not, then I guess that John Duarte is always doing some wrong with his 10 second RX7(Wolf 3D v3) and Winston with his 11.3 second Rx7(Wolf 3D v3). I do not know how many engines they have lost but I think it has been a few.<<

Just because my car is not at the track it does not mean it "blown"

There's other things more important !!!
My business, purchasing a new house and obviously the girlfriend:-)

There's simply not enough time for the toys...all three of them...88 Turbo II, 94 FD and a street killer FD.

As far as the Turbo II, the street port motor has been together for 8-9 months without blowing and it put down 524rwh no Nos !!....but few weeks back I decided to try a half-bridge motor with old plates...I broke the rear plate at the dowel then the front....with no oil pressure I killed the front bearing and my T-70.
I know the bridge-motor made more power but I decided to drop the street port motor back in with my old turbo for now.
My only other serious problems has been axles and trannies...last 2 months I replaced my FD tranny once and 3 axles :-(.........part of racing !
Track officials also made me install a side bar.
Keep on eye out for it...it should be racing at the next event.

My FD has run 12.1 with a best of 115mph @ 14.2psi with stock intercooler, injectors, fuel pump and non-seq turbos with Power FC.

Other FD....still in its early stages....just no time.

 

Moe, don't take it so personal. Please read the first post. Anthony merely wanted to get opinions from Haltech guys.

I cannot speak for John Duarte although I have alot of respect for his achievements and his willingness to share his experiences, like myself I'm sure he plays around with different thing like timing compression ratios, octane ratings etc. Whenever you get a negative result, prepare for a rebuild.

As for Winston, he just can't resist hitting the high boost setting on his EVC while on pump gas, recently we found out the hard way his wastegate diaphram was also torn, preventing him from limiting his boost.

As for as my last Engine blowing, I was also running extremly high boost on a sixport motor (this casted dowel areas) with pump gas (this casted dowel areas). I'm sure you do remember the motor(sunrise hwy).

By the way, I'm sure you know why your motor is still in pieces. Pump gas and high boost do not mix.


Anyway, I would welcome any comments from anyone who have heard about using haltech with a distributer and why?

 

John,

I sympathize with you. A lot of time, effort and money go into building a 10 second street car. Some guys are on this board, a little too much. They are not the guys in their garages or even in the street every night until early hours of the morning trying to get a car prepared for the track or even a street race. I can only imagine the dedication you probably put into, not one but, three cars. The achievements you and other "true" racers make are results of lots of patience. To me it doesnt matter how many motors someone has blown, but the fruits of their labor when they go down the track or spin the dyno to personal records is reward enough. Again I salute you and all the "true" racers who "live the life". Shame on all the guys criticizing others for trying.....

 

John, I have a lot of respect for you and the things you are doing. Glad to see you are still around. I hope every thing is going well with you. I remember the time you had a connectivity issue with your temp sensor which resulted in a blown motor which you discovered that night. It is the little wiring issues that can cause any engine to blow no matter which ECU is being used.

John, I want to know if you heard the same claims about Haltech units and what are your comments?

 

I fired this thread off to Justin at Haltech to get his response, so here is the nuts and bolts of what he said:

Most problems with ignition usually come from RF or EM interference. And ECU is only as good as the signals it gets, be it Haltech, Motec or Wolf. If there is RF
noise coming in on these signals (mainly the crank and cam sensors) then the ECU will respond to that.

In almost every case the problems that eople detail (again with Haltech or others) are usually due to RF noise issues due to poor wiring layout or incorrect plugs/leads etc (solid core leads are
out and so are those new ultra low resistance MSD leads .... both a recipe for trouble).

The main vehicles where this is something where more care should be taken
in the wiring is the ones that have magnetic reluctance type signal as these
are more suceptible to RF than a Hall effect or Optical setup.

There are a few guys in PR running the E6K for igntion and most of those guys go to using the Haltech S3 dual hall effect sensor with a custom fabricated
crank trigger wheel, This gives increased accuracy again as any lash etc in the distrib drive mechanism is elimintaed.

Finally there is one thing that should knock the whole thing on the head
... 90% of the quick guys runs our systems and have done for years (last
time I looked 8 of the tope 10 in PR ran Haltech ... One Microtech and one
mechanically injected engine). Eddie Bello's wheelstanding Porsche (9.10 1/4
with approx 1100hp @30psi boost) Started out with our E6A, has had E6S and
then E6K all running with 3 x MSD7A's for igntion , The vehicle runs well
and was setting records the whole way thru (they sold it now and are
building a new one), Sean Glazar (Extreme Performance) runs the worlds
fastest 4WD, This is an Eclispse that has been running faster and faster for
a number of years and now holds the record (last time I looked ) at 8.52
1/4.
.. If the quick guys continue to run our systems, recommend them to their
customers and get the results from them doesnt that say enough ... If our
product had these issues then we wouldn't be getting return business again
and again.

Putting a long story short and this is defending all ECU's,ours or others,
these units aree only as good as the people that wire, fire and tune them,
if this is not done properly then problems can and do happen, As this is
usually the most complex unit in the car it is the first to be blamed.
People need to understand that electronics like this cannot just be wacked
in the car any which way, care needs to be taken, If that care is taken the
results will provail.

So there it is from Haltech themselves, when in doubt, go to the source

 

My reply:

I don't think I will take is personal, but I think all of my comments are base on Anthony's questions.

Why did I mention WOLF. I wish I didn't.
With Winston's case, I think the last few times there was an issue which may be have been a wiring problem. The car just would not run properly. You remember this right? I think he sold the unit, wiring and all and is in the process of getting the new WOLF 3D version 4. This new unit looks pretty impressive. Hope everything works out.

I remember your AJ ported motor. Do you remember Grand Central Parkway?

My motor in still in pieces due to OTHER THINGS MORE IMPORTANT in life.
I want to see how this post pans out. Not having all the experiences I rely heavily on what the experts may experience. Don’t want the HALTECH to blow the engine for no reason. I want to feel confident with the ECU I am using. I will PAY ATTENTION TO THE WIRING AND SETUP with a lot of dedication and care and hope that “BLOW-TECH” does not strike.


Thanks AJC13B and Justin. WELL SAID

 

When in doubt, blame the ECU

 

Does this means that many of the E6K's were not returned to haltech for "issues" I know of at least 10 units returned to Haltech for repair this Includes MOESPEED's and AnthonyNYC's E6K as well.

If Justin is going to deny that MANY ECU's were not retuned for repair (free of charge for defects) I would like to personally hear it from him. This is what I've heard from 2 Haltech dealers in the US. It was also listed as certain serial numbers had defected "chips" that had to be replaced.

Ending this thread like everything is ok, blame everything but the unit is all bull. I'm sorry I had to say this on a public forum but that's just my opinion. I was hoping that someone here would be honest enough to say they had to return their unit for whatever reason it may be.

As far as the statement about Electromagnetic or Radiofrequecy issue's and using an optical/hall effect sensor does make a lot of sense. I myself use a msd 8509 unit that provides a square sinewave output to reduce the chances of a bad input signal.

At least there was something positive that came out this thread. I hope many readers do not take this as a Haltech bashing thread. I am currently tuning an E6s unit on street rx7 that will run 9's in future events. The car best time to date is 10.1 on a last minute street tuned program after switching to a new fuel injector setup. Next visit to the dyno should take care of that.

 

>>And ECU is only as good as the signals it gets, be it Haltech, Motec or Wolf. If there is RF
noise coming in on these signals (mainly the crank and cam sensors) then the ECU will respond to that. <<

AJC13B hit it righ on the head...
When i first installed the Wold3D in my I car I had tons of ignition trigger errors...possibly because of alternator cables which I ran together. After awhile I relocated the "shielded" cable going to CAS aways from the alternator and problem solved ! Ignition errors were gone ...

I think I see more blown motors from poor tunning and overboosted engines then anything else.
Another reason is people using someone else's maps.

No matter how much hp we crank we always want more.
I built the half-bridge motor from old plates with intentions to make the same hp or more at less boost since the Wolf3D limits me...well, the front plate only lasted ~4 hrs with 3-4th gear pulls at 18psi on pump gas.

There's a few I share my experiences with and they share theirs...but there's others that will close their hoods when walking by !

I'm back with the street-port motor and i'm just gonna have to boosted it higher like everyone else.
Rotors and rotor hosings are over 2 years old and seals are 1 year old.......at least some parts are staying together .....don't know of anyone who abuses their
car more then me, street or track.

My FD runs the PowerFC which many think it's a POS because they blew their engines with it......well, my car just finished running 12.004@ 114.6 with it @ 14.2psi and stock intercooler, turbos, fuel pump and injectors!

My other FD will be running a AEM race unit and pretty sure I'm gonna have alot of fun wiring it up.

Damn rotaries....can't leave them alone and stock

 

>>And ECU is only as good as the signals it gets, be it Haltech, Motec or Wolf. If there is RF
noise coming in on these signals (mainly the crank and cam sensors) then the ECU will respond to that. <<

AJC13B hit it righ on the head...
When i first installed the Wold3D in my I car I had tons of ignition trigger errors...possibly because of alternator cables which I ran together. After awhile I relocated the "shielded" cable going to CAS aways from the alternator and problem solved ! Ignition errors were gone ...

I think I see more blown motors from poor tunning and overboosted engines then anything else.
Another reason is people using someone else's maps.

No matter how much hp we crank we always want more.
I built the half-bridge motor from old plates with intentions to make the same hp or more at less boost since the Wolf3D limits me...well, the front plate only lasted ~4 hrs with 3-4th gear pulls at 18psi on pump gas.

There's a few I share my experiences with and they share theirs...but there's others that will close their hoods when walking by !

I'm back with the street-port motor and i'm just gonna have to boosted it higher like everyone else.
Rotors and rotor hosings are over 2 years old and seals are 1 year old.......at least some parts are staying together .....don't know of anyone who abuses their
car more then me, street or track.

My FD runs the PowerFC which many think it's a POS because they blew their engines with it......well, my car just finished running 12.004@ 114.6 with it @ 14.2psi and stock intercooler, turbos, fuel pump and injectors!

My other FD will be running a AEM race unit and pretty sure I'm gonna have alot of fun wiring it up.

Damn rotaries....can't leave them alone and stock