turbotoaster

haha i must have been shown that video a million times, if i had a dollar for every time people say OMG your gonna take off and die this project would be completed alot faster from the funds, do people realise the reason he lost control, it had nothing to do with aero

he wheelspun at 210mph when he turns the power up, hence going sideways, thats not gonna happen on tarmac, hence i dont need to extra downforce on the rear to stop wheelspin like he did

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

That's definitely not what I said man, but suit yourself, you're the driver.

turbotoaster

sorry mate, didnt mean to sound like im having a go but this isnt as dangerous as its made out to be, the only possible problem would be a blowout but thats pretty doubtful, its only 30secs of full throttle, its not like im maxing the car out on a oval for 10mins.

Id say all the highway races i see on youtube that you guys do in america are more dangerous than this

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

Well, I'm not American, and I don't street race on highways, but thanks for the stereotypes. If you feel safe than give'r, I personally like to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Good luck with your build, you've done a great job so far, I'm sure you'll meet your goals.

StavFC

A genuine 600@wheels if the gearing is right and you should do it at Brunters/Woodbridge, but it would be good to have more, just to help remove any variables. The least powerful cars to manage it there have been around a claimed 650bhp at flywheel, 2litres running GT35Rs at 2bar+, but not as aerodynamic as a RX7.

Ross's car has done 161 in the quarter so would do 200+ easy as he was on a 6spd manual box, within half a mile probably, but was far far too loud to ever be allowed at Brunters/Woodbridge, and while we was actually contemplating doing it on the M5 once, we never did, lol.
Keith Cowies R32 Skyline did 0-200 in 14seconds and under half a mile at TOTB, so Ross's wouldve been similar considering the terminal speeds.

Ive done 197.6 as a passenger at Brunters and countless times between 150-180 (hell, hit 165 by just over halfway in a little Pug 306 once!), and been part of timing I think 5 or so 200+ cars there, and regardless of the shape of the car, its always been pretty safe, and a fair few of these cars didnt even have cages, though all but 1 or 2 of the 200+ ones did.

We had 1 car have a blowout at I think it was the high 170s too, the entire footprint of the tyre was gone, but the car stopped straight and safely due to the R888s having incredibly stiff sidewalls so they stood up on their own even at that speed; I can only presume they were made to do that.

Im pretty confident for you mate, the run should last 30sec max, thats generally what they run when hitting 200-202mph there, as long as you can keep it cool and keep it in one piece, your on to a winner

rx7 SE

iTrader: (5)

wow.....that's incredible

turbotoaster

thanks stav, im aiming for 700bhp flywheel which is about 615whp i think going off reworx dd calculation for transmission loss.

Sad thing about when the blowout on the reyland car, made a bit of a mess of the rear arch, but suppose things like that can happen.

its mad how long the gearing is on ross's car is when you think about it, since he revs to 11000rpm he does nearly 150mph in 3rd so the car is geared to over 250mph, would be mad to see what he could hit down brunters, i think a parachute would be needed to stop from that speed.

Never did ask him what power he was making, id imagine close to 900whp. He seemed very confident that he can make the engine hold together at 2bar plus for those 30secs, plus with him coming with me on the day he can map for the conditions.

Was the 650bhp car you speak is adrians, he cut that 200mph mark pretty fine, i think it was 200.6mph.

Was wondering since this is 200mph on a budget i was talking to rickylee who is doing my manifold, hes the guy who has that white honda civic eg turbo, he ran 12s on road tyres, well he said he wouldnt mind having a go at 200mph when he builds his block and he says he can do it for under 10k aswell.

Would be a good feature for have a rwd and a fwd car doing it, will cover more of your readers tastes i thought, what do you think?

Also is there certain times of the year in which its better to go, or is it just complete it then book the next available opening?

StavFC

700@fly should cover it mate.
Rods Saff wasnt even that the first time he did it im sure he said.
Adrian has done 200.6 in the Corolla and 202 in the Celica now, both with under 700, no more than 650 I think he said, and big 4wd transmission losses.
Martins again, well under 700 and 4wd tranny losses.
Rocket Ronnie was only on a T78 too, IIRC he had 750odd and 4wd.
Cant remember what Norris had when he first did it in the Evo7 years ago, but im sure it was in the 700s.

Ive driven and been a passenger in Ross's car, and TBH it seemed solid as a rock from an engine point of view, im sure it wouldve lasted. You right about the gearing too, long as hell, and seeing the rev counter go 11k+ and the boost gauge hit 2.3bar in 3rd gear while im sitting on the floor (no passenger seat!) holding on to the rollcage is something I wont forget in a hurry, lol.
No idea what power he was making either, but considering the spec and terminal speeds, id say you right.

We timed Rickys car there once before years back IIRC, and yeah, anyone who genuinely thinks they in for 200+ there we more than happy to time. A few of the VW and Vaux guys have got close, 180+, but nobodys hit the magic number yet in a FWD there. We thought we had it nailed a few years ago with Andy Nicholls in his MG, he got to about 170 before even halfway but a CV joint let go, ending play early.

Regarding times, whenever mate, sooner the better! I was there Thursday doing testing, we know them pretty well and its rare you cant get a spot with just 24hrs notice. Thursday we was there, a 700bhp RUF CTR3 was there, a load of superbikes, a military vehicle, some Focus doing some odd stop/start testing, and a few other things, but could happily have done 200+ runs all day long with no worries. Often there busses and lorries and allsorts testing there, but everyone just needs to make sure there nobody in the way before they do what they do and its all fine

turbotoaster

ive been making a few assumptions on leons RUF turbo as i think his car closely matches my own in terms of aero out of all the other cars that have ran down there.
he did 206mph with 650bhp and 211mph with 720bhp, now i know im not gonna be that quick but its nice to know power isnt everything, even within that shorter distance, saying that i dont know what the transmission losses would be with it being rear engined, id imagine lower that a front engined rwd car, hence that is probably where the difference is.

rods are was 620bhp plus 150 shot of NOS for his 201.8mph, he said with the NOS firing he was about 750bhp but he never put it on a dyno with the nos to find out.

Strangly enough i have a feeling the biggest thing against me wont be power but traction, if you look, most of the 200mph club are 4wd, ie they are able to put the power down early and get to say 130mph much quicker than i will be able to, hence in a shorter distance so they have more runway to go for 200mph.

Im not really sure if thats gonna be an issue but i was thinking about it earlier on today.

Pretty much everything is sorted down to the last detail, i know the price of everything, i just have one big issue at the moment that needs sorting.

I need to know at what rpm im making maximum power at, if its 8500rpm ill just bang a 3.9auto diff in and job sorted, if its 7500rpm then the only way i can do it, is get some 18x10 rear wheels with 285/55/18s on. The issue there is thats £500 for the wheels(rotas) and £200 for the tyres, havent worked out how to get around that issue yet but i suppose ill think of something when it gets on the dyno, no point worrying about something you cant control

rx7 SE

iTrader: (5)

This might sound far fetched, but I've always thought it would be a good idea to investigate in adapting a traction control system for a high powered rx7. Something that would apply brakes to limit wheel spin, not impossible to do, but probably since it hasn't been done prior to my knowledge wouldn't be cheap either....or fun, lol.

Still wouldn't be able to put the power to the ground as well as 4wd, but you would still get up to speed significantly quicker than not having it and wouldn't have the power loss of 4wd.

turbotoaster

well the car is £6750 at the moment, the budget is £10k

so £400 for my intercooler/rad combo
£1500 for my turbo/manifold/wastegate etc
£200 for my pre turbo water injection
£270 for dual fuel pumps with direct 12v line
£550 for frp/rail/ID2000 inj/lines
ive asked for sponsorship from TOYO for tyres so see what they say
i then have £510 to work out how to create a big enough spark to fire it all, ive heard all the guys are running MSD stuff but to be honest i havent found out what exactly you have to buy and wire in.

I could use a twinpower but i have a feeling it wont be good enough for 6000cc/min of fuel and 700cc/min of water, does anyone know of anyone who has made alot of power with one?

traction control would help, but again havent got the funds

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

Ant- racelogic has a traction control system that will work with the FD. It uses the ABS sensors. Lots of people have actually run it on FD's for a while. You don't hear to much about it I think because not too many people "really" need it.

Also as Mr. toaster has said, It isn't in most peoples car fun budget

I know of a guy who has a Motec EMS with the TC function. He is adapting FD ABS sensors onto his FC to make it work. Should be cool.

rx7 SE

iTrader: (5)

Learn something new everyday! I would find it necessary for an FD making more than 600rwhp . Well, not necessary, but if your intention is to go in a straight line as fast as possible it sure would help a lot, and plus it's nice having something not everyone else has....*clears throat* which is why we drive rotaries

ronbros3

check out the, silverstateclassicchallenge.com, open road racing. Nevada USA

record still holds for the 90mile hyway race at 207 mph AVERAGE speed,225-230mph on the straights. cars like the JUN 350Z, OPtion magazine, i have personal video of car,before accident and after,looked like a ball of metal.
NO forced induction car has ever made it to the end, and break the record of the old fashioned NA american V8. they got turbo Porsches, and EVOs, Ferraris, Vipers etc.and all kinds of go-fast cars.

weak link is TIRES that can handle 200+ mph for 90miles without let up of throttle, BLOWOUTS are very common= DNF. it amounts to full throttle for 30minutes straight, now think about a 13B turbo on hi- boost for 30min, without a lift. sustained heat soak,, give thanks to waterAI, as increase water HP goes down.

YEAH, sounds easy! and it is only about 100miles from Bonneville UT. where RB ran there famous run.
it is also a great party of race guys ,havin fun!

and the roads and hyways are absolutly fantastic for hi-speeds, criusin at 120mph for hours on end, one section is 32miles flat(200+) with nothing on it but you and your car, and visability forever, no real speed limits.

OK that said,, YES keep up your project, and keep us informed.

im an old timer,and in the beginnig, we asked the car guy simply(how fast is the car), nothing else!!

turbotoaster

my new intercooler arrived today so i thought id chuck some pics up.

Now originally i had decided to go with a 70mm thick rs500 intercooler, the reason for this is that it would fit pretty well into the enginebay and is known to flow well for 700bhp.

When i was chatting to my manifold guy on msn he mentioned inlet/outlet sizes, i said well the standard cossie is 2.5inch throttle body and the rs500 was 3inch from what i had been told, so if its aimed at the 700bhp market then it will have 3inch pipes(it didnt say on the website) He recommended i check with them just incase.

I emailed them and they confirmed that they were infact only 2.5inch......since the outlet of my turbo is already being reduced from 3.5in to 3inch i didnt want to go down in size again, asking how much it would be to cut them off and weld in 3in he said £60-80, which would take the price of the cooler up to £370 which in my eyes was to much as i would have to make savings somewhere else to hit budget.

So then i looked at other options and come across this cooler i now have recieved.

They retail at £180 on ebay but luckily they had on that was on auction, with a bid of sniping i got it for £72!! Now i again need some work doing to it but its a big saving over the other cooler

the core is 600mmx290mmx120mm...yep its a thick one.

it has a larger overall capacity than the 70mm cooler and ive seen it push 900bhp in america so hopefully it will do the job for me.



big box arrives this morning!


woohoo, no damage anywhere


its rather thick


its also rather bloody heavy!


put in hot water for 10mins to test for any air leaks, seems fine


compared to standard cooler


now just need to do some measurements to compare it on the car to see what needs to be modded to fit

StavFC

thats a r32gtr one, will be fine.

an RS500 one is a bad idea above 500 IMO anyhow

turbotoaster

the standard rs500 intercooler is 50mm thick and is rated for 500bhp, i was gonna go with a 70mm version that is rated for 700bhp, but with it needing modding i dont think its cost effective.

Yeh i have seen this cooler run some big numbers on skylines, its a trust replica, cant really moan for £72 brand new.

Got to cut the inlets off and backdoor it but for the money you cant really moan, plus it shouldnt be pushed to hard with 770cc of water being sprayed into the turbocharger.

im at work at the moment but when i get home tonight ill put a picture up of how its gonna be mounted, the only concern i have i measuring up says its gonna sit very high in the engine bay, the top till be the same level as the original battery box!

at least though the bottom of the rad will see fresh air so i dont need to worry about water temps, ill explain it all in a pic later

turbotoaster

and im trying to avoid putting it into the bumper as it means longer pipework, its a big cooler and big turbo so i want to minimize distance the air has to travel if i can.

due to the size of the cooler it seems there space i have in the engine bay is where the battery box starts and also where it ends which is 266mm

the cooler is 120mm, rad is 73mm and id say the fans are 60mm but if anyone can confirm there width for me that would be brilliant....thats 253mm so im cutting it fine.

here is an idea, what do you think




since the cooler shape means at its widest it will be around 810mm(where the inlets would be welded) there are other areas where is narrower, so it could be mounted completely flat and one end me closer to the front of the car as its only 290mm in height so at worst i could mount it in a vmount configuration, but then ill need to look at bonnets because i dont believe i can but 2bar of boost through it and it have no path to release the hot air

StavFC

Ive done loadsa testing in the past on boost pipe lengths, intercooler capacities, and response, and TBH it makes **** all difference really, especially when talking about a spec like this.
There so many other things that has much more of an effect for less effort.

Mount it wherever easiest for the best cooling, ie bumper.

IMHO v-mount would be a bad idea too, most v-mount setups ive seen have crap cooling when pushed at high boost and actually tested with an ACT gauge.

Having timed countless cars at Brunters, id say keep it simple and keep it well proven, bright ideas are one thing, but if they dont work you fucked.

Look at all the cars so far that have done 200 or near as damnit so far- How many V-mounts? I count, none. How many bumper mounted big *** front mounts? I count all.

I love this project, and think it can work, but I also know you wont have many chances, best bet is get the plan right first time, then you got a day of attempts, and if planned right it should get there within the first 3 runs. Cheaper, easier, and most likely to happen

turbotoaster

well ive just measured the bumper, since the bumper sticks out from chassis more than the bottom part the cooler would fit at the top but not at the bottom since its 5inch, there is the possibilty of maybe putting it on a 5-10 degree angle so the bottom is futher back but havent got the bumper off to have a look.

if i do that then i need then to see if i can make the inlets line up with the bottom of the chassis rails and run the intercooler pipes underneath, like this

or this


the issue i have is not being able to get the cooler pipes close enough to the corners because of the shape of the end tanks hence the cooler will sit to low to the floor.

this gives an idea of size on a rx7(looks hideous!)


though looking at this as a option


its not completely verticle so are will be forced to the back of the engine bay, but personally i think it will get heat soak without a vented bonnet which i havent got the budget for

turbotoaster

radiator arrived today so i did some marking up to see if my theory matched real life

Another ebay purchase


No damage


thickness of end tanks


thickness of core


Marking up placement


Pretty tight!!


Checking for leaks



One the issues with running an intercooler of 120mm thickness is that you struggle to cool the water temps due to the restriction of air getting to the radiator.

By only covering half the radiator with the rad you gain the benefit of a thick intercooler and alot of air passing though the rad, thats my theory behind why this should work so fingers crossed.

Just need to get my intercooler over the local aluminum welding place to cut it to my specs

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i know this might not have been asked, but what aerodynamic mods are you doing as far as under body and outside body of the car? you can make all the hp in the world and yet you might not reach it if you have to cleave the air with something that has a very bad drag coefficient.

turbotoaster

there arnt any, its not needed.

There will be no wings or diffusers on the car, it will be stock body.

Ill remove the rear wing, the wing mirrors and tap the front up, nothing else is required.

a guy with an ls1 fd with 196mph in 1mile like that so ill be fine.

The fd has a low frontal area and low drag coefficient.

If i was looking to make maximum use of my 700bhp id be taking it Bonneville and going for 220mph+

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

how much lift is expected at those speeds though? you will not implement aero to at least keep you straight?

StavFC

Aerodynamics may not be an issue at all, never known a car to need anything too drastic done to cope in the literally 100s of cars ive had a part in testing there. Had a few cars get a bit unstable up there without a spoiler, but not enough to stop then as long as there wasnt any big crosswinds.

Just make sure you give yourself enough room to stop at the end mate, the 9FF hit 222mph there the other weekend but brakes a "bit" late...