Hey,
Which end tank design do you guys think is more efficient/better power/etc out of these two when used in a V-mount config?
The 024 looks more efficient but the 025 seems like piping would be easier. The IC will be slanted as a true V-mount, not horizontal to the ground.
025


024

 

it seems difficult to position the 024 in a way that the pipes would be remotely aestetically* pleasing.

 

Air is supposed to be turbulent in an intercooler. Go with the best piping solution

 

I'm not trying to make a sculpture But you're right, I'd think the 024 would require more bends which means less efficient overall flow and more money for the bends!

 

I didn't know this, where did you get that info? I've always wondered about the endtank setup in FDs, like this....
The air really has to make a major turn at the IC tho...but they seem to work.

 

Also, any reason why the pipes get closer to each other in the middle? It appears that more straight section could be used....guess it's just a matter of routing around existing crap in the engine bay.

 

^he uses a stock y pipe and elbow

 

Supposedly "backdoor" intercoolers, such as 025 do not have pipping blow off problems like others designs...

 

the 24 would be soo much simpler to rout. god you just dont know.

 

^ agreed.

24 looks like it would be much easier to route piping for. Probably would require less and more straight piping too. I think air would flow thru it better too.

Check out Blue TII's car, he is using a IC similar to 24. Look at how simple the piping is.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...8&page=1&pp=15

 

I'm custom fitting mine with the same IC as the 024. It can be mounted right behind the bumper with the pipes rilling over the radiator to the elbow. I have a similar setup now with a straight line to both the turbo and Greddy elbow.

 

although. i wouldnt have intercooler fins horizontally. vertically would work a tad bit better in my opinion. i forgot what turbocharging book i read it from ( not a tuner mag ) but it said i think so dont quote me is that the most efficient cooling of the intercooler is right where the air enters the intercooler. having the fins vertically, and short intake piping is a pretty killer win in think. bashing is welcome.

 

I just spent alot of time evaluating this very issure from an engineering perspective. The short story is that neither solution is perfect, but the 025 is my preffered choice as it will provide better I/C utilization. The key is proper distribution inside the I/C and the 024 is going to be problematic as the charge is moving too fast over the first few rows of core; this is somewhat mitigated in the 025. It would be better yet if the I/O's were staggered. With either unit, the primary restriction is likely to be the core itself, not the inlet/outlet; that being said, it remains that they are not optimum, however, they will just not be a great restriction.

Don't worry about a few bends to connect everything. It will have no significant effect on the overall flow. You may want to keep the overall volume to a minimum for best turbo response, but there will be no other significant benefit to a straight-shot connection.

How much boost do you intend to run? Or what HP level? That core size is substantial and really only needed for 500+ HP apps. REgardless of the size of the core, the biggest problem with intercooling is getting enough cooling air over it. A properly constructed v mount will go a long way toward achieving that effect without starving the radiator and will allow you to run a smaller core than might otherwise be necessary.

 

Pay attention!!


This is exactly right!!! The way around this is putting in internal baffles to direct the flow to the first half of the core. It works well believe me, you can also use halfround between the inlet rows to bellmouth each entry I have done both things on my core and it makes a huge difference in how liitle the air has to work to get through the core. When I showed a few people here they were amazed at the difference it made.


The 25 will utilize the overall core better but it will have to work harder to do it. Meaning higher boost will be required at the compressor to get your power at the TB.
higher boost at the compressor means more heat to remove.

Agreed, for most of what you guys do this is right, however 90* bends have been shown to cause 5% loss of power per bend in flow testing. Alot of it has to do with how big the bend radius is as well. The same tests showed that when using 45* when possible it cut those losses in half. The bigger concern isn't which core to use at this point it's the quality of core you use. If those are the typical ebay cores They'll flow great regardless, the have very poor fin density and that amounts to poor heat rejection doesn't matter if you put it outside your car. If the air moves through it with little minimal surface contact to transfer the heat and does so too quickly it wouldn't matter what your endtank design.

-S-

 

Thanks guys,
I missed the 2nd round of replies but I decided to go with the the 025 based on non-scientific reasoning similar to what was mentioned above. Plus it'll be easier to work into my car, a Datsun 240Z with a 13BT motor. Turbo, etc. are as yet undecided.

I did a little reading in my Maximum Boost book after I finally found it, again, similar to info given here. I think I made the right choice and it's not a race car OR a dyno queen OR a daily driver, so I should be just fine. In short, it keeps me off the street and away from drugs and gangs J/K.

Anways, it won't be totally horizontal and will have more than ample ducting out the hood. In front will be air guides as well as a horizontal fin separating incoming air between the rad and IC.

I'd like to know more about this,
"you can also use halfround between the inlet rows to bellmouth each entry"
What is "halfround" and what inlet rows-the "face" of the IC?
Thanks

 

You could do it on the "face" of the core for better flow through there as well, but I was referring to the internal "bars" between the rows of fins. You weld halfround over the bars to create a bellmouth at each entry point into the fins. If you want to make that IC #25 better, cut the sides opposing the inlet/outlets at a 45* to taper torwards the inlet outlet. That would help relieve some of the flow isues with that tank design. The lower the boost level the better design you want your tanks to have. At 40psi it really doesn't matter much.

-S-

 

If air flows smoothly through it only cools some of the air. It doesn't transfer heat as well. I don't remember where I got this but it was from a reputable source or I wouldn't have forgotten about it. If air could transfer heat easily to itself while quickly moving into the engine, there would be finned intercooler hoses.

 

custom IC for 13BRE

 

Gotta love those Ebay cores that advertise very very efficient, only .5psi of pressure drop at 1000cfm!!!

LMAO

 

BINGO! Someone's finally got it. This is exactly what I was talking about. And similar to what I'm doing with my own. Who really cares how the plumbing looks-- I'll bet the IC shown outperforms some of the unmodified and undeveloped units twice its size. Clearly a lot of thought, testing and/or engineering has gone into this.

 

Don't be fooled, these guys with the [better] ebay cores may have the last laugh...

I picked up an XS Power IC from another forum member for evaluation. I have run the calcs on its design and it looks suprisingly good--good enough that I'm spending time testing it in my engineering lab.

Preliminary indications are that this product is nothing to laugh at. Seriously.

 

I didnt need a lab to know when I cut the endtanks off one and it was flat walled tube inside without even so much as one turbulator that it was a pos that wouldnt cool worth a damn. Of course there is not restriction or pressure drop lmao....there isnt even a turbulator in it haha

But thats just it with Ebay, you never know what your getting or who its REALLY coming from.

 

Same result here. It's like they took one peice of thin sheet metal and just bent it back and forth to lool like it had fins. Complete garbage as far as I'm concerned.


How true.

-S-

 

Nice tanks, funklove did you test it with and without the baffles? My initial guess is the baffles are possible hurting you. Since the inlet/outlets are at 90* to the core the air has to pressurize the tank before it turns anyway. That said if they only are in the inlet/outlets and not going down into the tanks too far they would/should work pretty good.

-S-

 

So, SPO and Zero_R, which ebay brands are you referring to? We must be looking at different parts. I don't advocate junk, and this one here is decent--even I was surprised. Which is why I'm testing it. And it does have turbulators.

The ones we were discussing earlier in this thread, i.e., 024, 025, etc. are being sold on this board; are they the same as the ebay units? Does anybody know?