Dyno: 490 RWHP and 395 TQ, T-61 single
11-08-06, 09:39 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by dubulup
about the 5th island...do I win?
dupulup FTW!!! I'm getting a new race gas tune on my T-61 in about a week and planning to run 26 lbs, but I've been under the impression one could run up to 28lbs on the T-61. Planning to post it up on the forum if motor survives. It'll be on a really low reading dyno, so that should be fun trying to make comparisons! (LoL)
11-09-06, 07:48 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by J-Rat
The port I have is a proprietary one that Glen @ AZrotaryrockets built.
For comparison, I made 407 wheel at 14 PSI, so the motor FLOWS.
At 490 Hp, the car is FRIGHTENING... I turned the boost back down because I like traction..
For comparison, I made 407 wheel at 14 PSI, so the motor FLOWS.
At 490 Hp, the car is FRIGHTENING... I turned the boost back down because I like traction..
Your dyno graph shows precipitous torque losses relatively early. What does it take to keep torque production up a bit longer thru the range? I don't think that's because the T-61 is running out of breath up there. What is your turbine housing's a/r? Nevertheless, I do not doubt that the car is absolutely FRIGHTENING on the street.
I'm just a huge fan of the T-61 and it's my opinion that it's the best all around t-series hair dryer for street use. If or when I have to replace it, however, I'm going with a GT series and probably the A-Spec 500-R.
11-09-06, 08:43 AM
#37
Originally Posted by III Gen X
I know of a stock motor T-61 that put down 420 at 17lbs, and ran 11.1 @ 122. Is your proprietary port an average sized street port? Not sure how the comparison at lower PSI is evidence that the exhaust port is LARGE.
Your dyno graph shows precipitous torque losses relatively early. What does it take to keep torque production up a bit longer thru the range? I don't think that's because the T-61 is running out of breath up there. What is your turbine housing's a/r? Nevertheless, I do not doubt that the car is absolutely FRIGHTENING on the street.
I'm just a huge fan of the T-61 and it's my opinion that it's the best all around t-series hair dryer for street use. If or when I have to replace it, however, I'm going with a GT series and probably the A-Spec 500-R.
Your dyno graph shows precipitous torque losses relatively early. What does it take to keep torque production up a bit longer thru the range? I don't think that's because the T-61 is running out of breath up there. What is your turbine housing's a/r? Nevertheless, I do not doubt that the car is absolutely FRIGHTENING on the street.
I'm just a huge fan of the T-61 and it's my opinion that it's the best all around t-series hair dryer for street use. If or when I have to replace it, however, I'm going with a GT series and probably the A-Spec 500-R.
11-11-06, 12:38 AM
#40
Originally Posted by dhahlen
dowling is a waste of money IMO. I've talk to several pro builders that agree, but everyone has their argument.
11-11-06, 06:26 AM
#41
Gone Race'n
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Dowling is not a majic force feild from poor tuning... it is only a way for the rear plate to transfer the forces of rotational acceleration to the rest of the engine.
Dowling is neccssary for anything more than about the 500-520 whp mark, at least if you want it to last in a racing senario for any length of time....
Dowling is neccssary for anything more than about the 500-520 whp mark, at least if you want it to last in a racing senario for any length of time....
11-11-06, 06:41 AM
#42
yeah either going to dowl my motor or get the stud kit, not sure. I think if your building an expensive setup that you want to last, every little piece of insurance is a good thing. At what, 250 bux if you get someone else to do it, it's not all that bad of a price.
11-12-06, 01:09 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by J-Rat
At 17 PSI I was pretty much in the 460 range. I am not the turbo specialist, so I am not sure what to make of all the data, but as far as the AR goes, its a .96 turbine.
Good work on the power figures, it will be gd to see the new number with the race fuel.
11-12-06, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bobybeach
I have a customer that made 513whp on dynopac hub dyno with T-61 @18psi using WI, The t-61 will reach its flow limits at about 17-18 psi on 13b at high rpm, increasing boost more than this will only give you more torque at mid rpm. I beat your boost had droped from 25psi to about 18psi at max rpm. this why your peak torque drops also as it follows the boost drop with rpm increase.
Good work on the power figures, it will be gd to see the new number with the race fuel.
Good work on the power figures, it will be gd to see the new number with the race fuel.
Great info! How much do you think the whp would be at 18 lbs without the W/I tune? THanks!
edit- I still don't get how there is such a huge drop in pressure at high rpm. Don't the specs say it can flow up to 650 cfm? The power production is not demanding that much air, so why doesn't the turbo hold boost by simply increasing rpm with the motor? (it's late in the morning and I hope this question makes sense when I get up tomorrow (lol))
Last edited by Old Slow Coach; 11-12-06 at 01:26 AM.
11-12-06, 02:47 AM
#46
Senior Member
Originally Posted by III Gen X
Great info! How much do you think the whp would be at 18 lbs without the W/I tune? THanks!
edit- I still don't get how there is such a huge drop in pressure at high rpm. Don't the specs say it can flow up to 650 cfm? The power production is not demanding that much air, so why doesn't the turbo hold boost by simply increasing rpm with the motor? (it's late in the morning and I hope this question makes sense when I get up tomorrow (lol))
edit- I still don't get how there is such a huge drop in pressure at high rpm. Don't the specs say it can flow up to 650 cfm? The power production is not demanding that much air, so why doesn't the turbo hold boost by simply increasing rpm with the motor? (it's late in the morning and I hope this question makes sense when I get up tomorrow (lol))
The t-61 is supposed to flow aprox 60-65lbs/min which equates to an aprox 660-700hp. The problem is max hp is made with aggressive ignition tune, but once boost is added to the equation the ignition needs to be pulled back to far to keep thing under control.
In most applications because of conservative tunes If you could measure the turbo flow of lbs/min you will find that the turbo reaches its peck at a hp figure that seem shy of the turbos true limits. Adding the WI will allow a more aggressive ignition and fuel tune that will more efficiently convert the lbs/min into raw hp.
BTW good nite
haha
Last edited by bobybeach; 11-12-06 at 02:55 AM.
11-12-06, 03:43 PM
#48
Senior Member
Originally Posted by hondahater
so your saying to keep the psi down to 17 or 18. I was planning on running 22psi but if that is out of it's efficiancy range than I will back it down to your suggested limmits.
A larger turbo like t-64 or t-70 will hold the 22psi higher in the revs, A t-70 could probably hold 22-25psi all the way to 8500rpm.
Efficiency and flow are two different things. Rule of thumb is....
small trim gives high boost efficiency.
Large inducers or large trim gives high flow.
High flow is what’s required to hold boost at high rpm.
High boost Efficiency is what’s required to give good compressor performance at hi boost.
Think of ot this way... Run twin T-61 on a 13b. The compressor maps of the t-61 show it favoring high boost applications. Running twins will allow huge cfm flow that will enable you to hold aprox 35psi at high rpm on your 13b. And the compressors will love it. 35psi is a walk in the park for a T-series type compressors.
Last edited by bobybeach; 11-12-06 at 03:46 PM.
11-12-06, 07:11 PM
#49
cool, sounds great, thanks. Can't wait to see what it can do but building the hole setup to support one of your t70's or even mp gt45's maybe later on But not really sure if I even want to do that due to the slower spool etc... I think once I get this t61 where I want it I may start asking you about the t64, sounds like a pretty cool turbo as well. Thanks again.
But not really sure if I even want to do that due to the slower spool etc... I think once I get this t61 where I want it I may start asking you about the t64, sounds like a pretty cool turbo as well. Thanks again.
11-12-06, 07:36 PM
#50
Senior Member
Originally Posted by hondahater
cool, sounds great, thanks. Can't wait to see what it can do but building the hole setup to support one of your t70's or even mp gt45's maybe later on But not really sure if I even want to do that due to the slower spool etc... I think once I get this t61 where I want it I may start asking you about the t64, sounds like a pretty cool turbo as well. Thanks again.
But not really sure if I even want to do that due to the slower spool etc... I think once I get this t61 where I want it I may start asking you about the t64, sounds like a pretty cool turbo as well. Thanks again.haha i think you will be more than happy with the t-61, I know i was. Im fitting the t-64 now.... i hope i dont regret it.