Hey guys, I was wondering while running a single turbo setup for street (maybe track once a month) if I would need dual oil coolers? I'm going to be running an aspec gt3574r kit probably at 15psi.

 

need? no. however, it's not a bad idea.

 

Assuming you have an FD and assuming you still have the stock single oil cooler. Then AT THE MINIMUM you should have dual R1 oil coolers. But really if you plan to track it, you should be looking for upgraded oil coolers like the ones provided by Sakebomb Garage (I think thats what they are calling themselves now).

thewird

 

^^They've never called themselves anything else.

 

When I bought my oil coolers from them, it was the FDNewbie/Intrasent (SP) dual oil cooler kit. There was no street or race version either, they only offered what is now called the race. Anyway, they are made by same person Scrub.

thewird

 

is twin 19 row enough? or should I opt for the 25?
This car isn't really going to see much road to be honest.
Going from stock to single turbo is like a 10k jump, and I wanna try to save as much as I can without neglecting quality.

 

I would,'t hesitate to run the 19 row if your not full out serious tracking.

thewird

 

I have dual 19row fully ducted (CWR kit) and tracked the car many times with no oil temp problems at all, is 25row the new 19row?

 

Tracking a car adds a great deal to the heat load. Given rotaries use the oil for a good percentage of the heat management, good oil cooling is mandatory for a tracked car.
Do the dual oil coolers, just for insurance if nothing else.

-Trent

 

That's back when we were doing business with Ramy and he wanted to sell our kit through him. Our name isn't going anywhere Thanks for the kind words though. As Marco said, the 19 rows are more then sufficient for street/light track use.

-Dan

 

CWC is no longer in business, is there any other brands that are reputable?
Sakebomb?
Aspec has a dual oil kit as well.

 

Sakebomb Garage dual oil coolers is what you want. One of the best upgrades I made on my car. Stoptech big brake kit being the best

thewird

 

Just put your own "kit" together, here is the shopping list of parts you will need. http://www.banzai-racing.com/efini_dual_oil_cooler.htm

 

this is the setup I have on my car now.....

 

Even with all those parts, there is a ton of work needed to make the kit "fit". I'd also highly recommend setrab cores over the earls personally, whether you buy our kit or make your own. Also make sure to compare apples to apples.... lines, fittings, etc. But all that aside, it took us a very long time to develop a drop-in, ready to go, perfectly fitting kit. If your time is worth anything at all to you, the already engineered kits are the way to go. If you're already 700+ deep in parts (for the cheapest components) with no hardware and you'll need to fabricate all of your own mounts and brackets.....

I'm not just saying this because I sell the kits, it's because I had to go through the process of engineering the 99 kits.... its not an easy task at all. Don't take my word for it though, poke around on the forum... there are lots of guys running them, and nothing but highly satisfied FD owners (the super detailed instructions we did up also help a ton we're told). There are lots of kits out there as well, it's worth shopping around to see whats out there, but once you do I guarantee our kit will end up looking pretty tempting and more than fairly priced for what you get

And if there is interest, we can get another GB goin on the kits... that will get the cost down further with a good number of people on board

 

There is not a lot of work involved. Cut a few pieces of hose, put the ends on and make 4 little brackets. Installation time is the same whether you buy a box of parts from Summit or a "kit".

Setrab, Mocal and Earl's are similarly priced. Remove the sticker from a Setrab cooler and it says Mocal under it. The quality is the same. The prefabbed mounting brackets are interchangeable between all three.

 

OOps, I meant pull the sticker off the prefabbed Setrab mounting brackets and they have Mocal etched in them. Here are the parts laid out with Strab coolers that we installed on a customer's car.

 

The brackets might be re-branded, but there is nothing better out there than Setrab coolers. Might look the same, definitely not the same technology.

When I walk around the paddock at sports-car races, I see Setrabs, I don't see Earls and Mocal as much. The Mocal and Earls coolers might not be bad units, but just saying what I see the best using.

The SBG Kit is one of the most well put together plug & play kits and several companies (including top Japanese tuners) have shown interest in distributing the kit under their name. Should say something.

 

Good for them. I didn't say Setrab were bad, as you can see in the picture above we have intalled them on customers' cars.

However, for the average every day car the Earl's are just fine. For that matter, I run dual 25 row Earl's on my 600+ rwhp 20B and the temps stay right at 180F-190F, now that says something.

I have personally seen the kit and finished the install for someone that was in over their head, so I do know what I am comparing it to. If a person has access to a small amount of tools they can just buy the parts that we have listed and save several hundred dollars.

 

Not everyone has the tools, time or ability to make "4 little brackets", we actually include a thermostat bracket too; so it's technically five. You also need to take into consideration that not every bumper fits the same. We took the time to create a kit that fits on a completely stock car. Since www.setrab.com is stamped into the top of setrab coolers I don't see how it could have been made by mocal. The brackets may be re-branded, but who cares. The setrab coolers may fit the same as mocal, but they're not. While they're both excellent products we prefer Setrab as it's an OE cooler for many companies including Ferrari. Actually the speedsource cars use Setrab coolers as well as MANY other professional race teams.

Our kits are not designed for the DIYer. We've stated clearly that people who want to create their own kit are welcome to use our install guide to help them. Our kit is designed for someone who wants a complete solution and is ready to be installed with all the hardware included. Believe it or not our kit does save people quite a bit of time. With our kit you do not need to fabricate any brackets or assemble any hoses. Stainless steel lines can be a royal pain to put together if you're not experienced. You've clearly misunderstood why we've created our oil cooler kits. Do you build engines for free? There are plenty of how-to rotary rebuild videos out there, and yet you're still plenty busy

-Dan
SakeBomb Garage

 

I understand you sell a "kit", that is good for some people. I also understand you do not assemble the kit for free and that the main purpose is to make money. However, your kit is still just made up of 4 lines, 2 coolers, a couple fittings, 4-5 brackets, and a couple pieces of teflon tube, with some bolts and wire clamps. It is not like the kit comes with ducting. If anyone has an aftermarket front end then they are going to have to create all their own brackets anyway to move them forward, otherwise their fancy oil coolers are just hanging there without any airflow at all.

All I did was post a link to a list of parts that make up a standard kit for the people that want to just buy the parts. Fact is we do not sell any of the components listed and clearly state that at the link provided.

Sorry if you feel that this was some how encroaching on your "sacred" cow.

 

For anyone who doesn't know what our cooler kit looks like

 

The original purpose was actually just to make a set of coolers for our own cars that fit perfectly with the stock bumper and used high quality components (unlike what was for sale at the time). Dan and I had lots of personal experience fitting the "kits" from other companies on our cars with less than satisfactory results, not to mention the bargain basement parts that came with them. Dan and Charlie originally just did this for their own personal cars in the little garage they shared. We never really set out to make a "product for the FD market".

I've also got a 20b FD, and a few years back wanted to run the 25row cores with a 99 bumper on that car... turned out the mounting design had to be completely different along with the fittings for the 99 bumper/re-bar/undertray. Like Dan and Charlie did, I ended up spending weeks perfecting a setup for my own car... other people ended up contacting me inquiring about what I just did so we decided to formalize all this and draw them up in CAD to be CNCed. Dan and I became friends at that point and that's where this all spring-boarded from. This isn't our livelihoods... we just do this on the side for fun. If we wanted to make "money" off them we would be selling them for the same prices that other companies out there charge for their kits with inferior parts. We're not here to gouge anyone, and have never really tried to "push" selling the kits... people usually just recommend our setup to their friends after installing it, and we end up with lots of word of mouth inquiries.

In your simplification you neglected to add the many iterations (hours upon hours of design) for bracket after bracket, and experimentation to get every component to fit bang-on. Make a bracket, bumper on, check fitment, remake bracket, bumper on, check fitment, remake bracket, fiddle with different fitting types and angles to make your coolers that now fit clear all of the protruding parts of the chassis sticking out, cut a line, check line length, disasseble fittings and cut shorter (or heaven forbid they are now too short). What you forgot to add to that list of parts was all of the time, energy, and expense to do all of this... and my hat goes off to the person that makes their own test brackets, gets them to fit, and re-makes them using thick aluminum stock for sufficient rigidity. Add to that the detailed step by step installation manual we created, and yes, there is actually more to the "kit" than you listed.

But yes, a motor is just a bunch of metal parts, a star is just some hydrogen, and we're all just 60% water. Not trying to be condescending, but the parts that something is made of doesn't necessarily describe the whole.


Hence the two-piece sliding inner bracket design for the 99 spec mounts that I created which are adjustable to fit with most any aftermarket bumper .


Sorry if I come off sounding a little miffed, but I personally put in an unbelievable amount of time to make sure every single part fits down to the millimeter and lasts the life of the car. It just irks me hearing someone suggest that you can simply take a pile of parts and slop this together in a weekend.... it's just, misleading.

-Heath

(BTW I have a package coming your way in the next day or so for one of your FC customers )

 

You do not need to "defend" your product, no one is saying anything bad about it and there is certainly no reason to take it "personal". I posted a shopping list, that is it. If a person can cut a piece of hose, attach an end and bend a couple brackets, then this is an option for them.

I know necessity is the mother of invention. Every one of our products was designed to fill a specific need at our shop. The reason I came up with the oil cooler parts list was the same as yours. We had customers bring us in their high dollar "kits" for install, that were no more than loose parts in box, typically with the wrong fittings and no instructions. The list at least allows them to bring us the correct parts and saves them $500-700 depending on who they were buying the "kit" from.

What it comes down to is if an individual does not have the ability and/or desire to make their own hoses and brackets then your kit is for them.

 

^ It's great that there are these two options. Fabricators love to fabricate. I fall into that category. It also saves money. I have the MS front bumper so I have the option to also fab custom ducting for the coolers if I choose.