If they made a BUR10EQ or BUR11EQ I would probably run them. But I hate aftermarket plugs and I consider them at best a necessary evil. They're too expensive, they can affect idle quality, they're easier to foul out, or they need a special socket, or they are non-resitstor, or they are aren't available locally. I ran BR10EIX for a while and they caused nothing but problems (cracked from overheating, idled worse). I've been running four BUR9EQ for almost a year and a half now (recently switched to the platinums) and I'm still happy with them. I'm not seeing any signs of them overheating. That's at 17psi with no AI on a T04R. Convenience is king. If I blow the motor because of this then I'll eat my words.

In the piston world a 9 heat range is already ridiculously cold (most turbo cars come with a 6 from the factory). Plenty of high boost piston motors put out some crazy EGT's almost comparable to a rotary.

 

I believe that's what happened to mine! I didn't realize that I had left 9 and 7's when the engine blew!!!

 

Are the NGK R6725-105 plugs resistor type?

 

Yep. All of those R6725 are resistor plugs. The 'R' in the part number is the giveaway and follows the same standard all NGK plug part numbers have - R6725105, BUR9EQ, etc.

B

 

FWIW, I've been running stock plugs (7's and 9's) for a year in my car.

up to 20psi, t04-R, over 400whp. Still ticking along just fine, runs 120mph in the 1/4.

I'm not saying this is ideal, or that running colder plugs is wrong, but I'd say its a definite indication that a well tuned, well sorted setup with no other issues will not simply blow up because it has warmer plugs in the holes.....or at least thats the indication sub 500whp.

 

No thanks. I spent waaaay to much time and effort to make waaaaay more tq in the streetable ranged with good top end power than you big single guys to destroy all that work to put a big single on and ruin a damn good auto-x/street car. I'll pass. Nor am I going to spend $10k plus just to prove a point to a bunch of e-thugs, wanna-be's, and tuners.

My FD project will have a single though, and it's not putting words into practice by any stretch of the imagination. The power numbers this car was putting out was ridiculously low for the turbo and boost being run - sorry - but this was bad tuning or a shitty built engine - sorry again but that's what I'm hearing here. 6* timing man, lets see some other 22psi maps that make decent power. Still waiting on that. I'd like to see some EGT and L logs as well.

 

in before the lock/mod edit

anyway, there's a chance that the OP's engine is just one of the many who have had mysterious electrical noise etc blow up their engine on an older Haltech. I don't know about the latest generation (Platinum Sport), but it's well known that the older Haltechs seem to flake out like this more than a factory ECU or say a Power FC.

 

There is only one style of LS1 coils. The ones that MoTeC sells are the D580's, they suck. I witnessed them wet foul on a running idleing engine. They are miserable coils. Get rid of them.

Not to mention that ANYONE that tells you 6ms of dwell on them is fine is out of their beyond pee sized brain. Talk to someone who knows the coils and get real dwell times... ****, I'll give you my old dwell table from when I WAS running them. I hated those coils.

Not to mention if you're running them with alot of boost and meth, that could be one ---ONE--- of the underlying causes of the failure. Get a real coil or a CDI system.

There's so much nutswinging going on from keyboard mechanics I feel like I'm wasting my time here.

 

Another good point.... while it's not been admited by anyone in Haltech that I'm aware of, it's pretty well known that Haltech has a rep for that kind of crap.


To be completely honest, I really don't know where the best place to mount them would be. I would assume that would be the best place but I am not the right person to ask that question, sorry... I just don't know on an n/a but I would assume that's it.

 

There are 3 versions of the LS coils- LS1, LS2 and truck coils. The truck coils with heatsink being the best power output wise. I ran 5ms of dwell for over a year on these coils without issue (direct fire of course). I have also seen these coils run 100% DC for 15 minutes (almost ready to melt) but still worked. While hot they do have an internal current and dwell limiter which hits around ~5,6ms point.

 

Wow, a lot of people blowing motors this time of the year, which Lance had told me would happen on the phone. FWIW, I'm running 9's all the way around, 23 psi on a 500R with water/meth injection...zero problems.

OP, sorry if I missed it, but what kind of condition is your wiring harness in? How is the wiring to your injectors?

 

The truck coils are known to auto-discharge if the max dwell is reached. Just ask the renni guys with blown motore running the BHR coils when their engine blew... I have a friend who popped it cranking.

There is also an LS7 coil as well which I hear second hand through a GM engineer puts the LS2 truck coils to shame. I have no actual data though, but when I went looking for a replacement set I was told to go this route. I declined and went for some Bosch Motorsport coils instead. My car will start and idle well with 10 volts of battery power. The LS coils could barely start the car with 11.5 volts which of course dips when cranking.

 

Just for clarification:

I did it for two reasons. I took a plug reading with stock 9's (new plugs, power pass, shutdown with no idle) and another with stock 7's and 9's. The stock 7's looked like a more even burn, and I didn't get any increase in knock......so I decided **** let's try it. Its *mostly* street driven, so the better idle characteristics were something I liked.

Two, the engine's been together (to me given my history with HELLtech's) for a long time. Two seasons at this power and nearly 30,000kms. If it blew I wouldn't have been disappointed so I figured I'd see what happened long term.

I'm not recommending anyone do it, all I'm saying is if you remove all the variables that could have caused his failure - at that power - the plugs alone would be very unlikely to blow the engine. If heat range alone could kill apex seals, I would have or should have blown my engine hundreds of times over the last 8 months.

 

I agree with that. Besides the (preventable) overboost, I think there is a good chance his Haltech E8 may have flaked out on him. The Haltech tech support can blame grounding and all these other culprits, but these problems basically never occur on OEM controllers. They do occur on other systems as well, as my old Megasquirt had all sorts of problems.

 

I would like to make one more suggestion for you mate. I have found with the haltech 02 sensors and many of the cheaper 02 sensor setups read around .3-.5 points richer on the richer end of the scale of afr where as when your cruising are dead on the money.

It is possible that it was alot leaner then the afr sensor is showing. I still think the plugs are your problem and your ecu shutting down may have been from the knock it self. You need to fix the motor. Get it on the dyno. Make sure it dosnt overboost on the dyno as your boost curve dosnt look good, looks like the gate opens at 22psi and the car creeps up to 27psi which means the gate or manifold or both are not working correctly.

If your afrs are actually 11.3 then your fuel mixture is not your problem even at 27psi. Get your 11.5 plugs and start again. You will get alot of theories on here but most of the advice you will get is from people that do not have experience with a engine at your power level.

To say that you can run 17 degrees or even 22 degrees of timing on a 250rwhp engine compared to 500rwhp engine is not a sound theory and is not a fair comparison. The level of knock in the 500rwhp engine will be exponentially higher.

I have tuned countless cars ranging from 400rwhp to over 800rwhp and they do not need large amounts of timing to make good power. My own pump fuel car has 2-3 degrees advance and makes 700rwhp+ on a dyno dynamics dyno.

Hope you decide to listen to at least some of what i have to say.

 

+1.

Yep.

+1 there as well!!!! Right on the money.

B

 

11.3 it might not seam lean. but there is a big difference in 11.3 AFR at 12psi vs 27 PSI. With those boost levels you should be running colder plugs like 10.5 or 11.



What about running CHT along with EGT so you can fine tune each rotor
http://tscsensors.com/chtws0722p0kssnchts.html

 

Wiring is in very good shape. Haltech flying lead harness, with all soldered connections.

 

Previous street and dyno runs show a typical curve, where the boost would head straight to 22psi and stay level for the entire run. Not sure why this run has a gradual lead-in. I'll look into it.

 

WOW I'm running LS1's! You know I'm actually witnessing this 1st hand with my engine on the test stand. Anytime my battery gets a little weak, I can't crank my engine for ****. I'm running a Miata battery in the rear bin. It cranks just fine when charged but doesn't have much reserve. As soon as it gets a little weak, the engine never even acts like it wants to start. I guess these coils really need to higher voltage to work well. I also can't hardly fire the engine up with 9's in the leading unless I have a full charge. I may have to do something else because I don't want to get stranded all the damn time. Your set up sounds nice (being able to crank on a weak battery) That's added peace of mind!

 

Yea but look he blew the engine at 27psi with a GT42 on a bridge port. He had to be making well over 450rwhp when it blew (especially with cooler temps). I think he was closer to 600rwhp. A frined of mine hit 600rwhp with the same size turbo at 32psi and he was only a street port. I don't think 9's would work well at that level.

 

9's work better thhan people give them credit for, but 27psi is asking too much of them. The loss of data during the run needs further investigation

 

Another myth.... soldering is considered completely inferior by proffesionals who build harnesses and install EFI systems for a living. I've seen broken solder joints for no apparent reason, never seen a broken crimp unless it's been pulled apart.

Don't believe me, and I bet there are a lot of people here who don't.. so check out MoTeC's manual.

Quote:

Terminal Crimping

Quote:

Strait from the MoTeC manual. You can find it here
http://www.motec.com.au/downloads/downloadmanuals/
M800 manual, page 24-25.

Ask yourself who you're listening too - proffesionals, or internet keyboard mechanics who are looking for attention and acceptance.

 

There's a big difference between 450 and 600 rwhp and I don't think that an extra 5psi would get him there. I'm sure he was making more power, but not that much. Regardless of how much he was making though, how does boost increase..... closing the WG. what does closing the WG do? Increases EMAP... lots of overlap, lots of EMAP, retarded timing.... if he was running a typical timing map, 6* @ 22psi would drop even more at 27psi......

Yeah, that's about what would happen to me. The idle quality sucked as well even when fully charged, and when weak it was hit or miss whether the bitch would start.

The best was on a rebuilt engine I had built. Put it in and with a fully charged battery and the battery charger running (re-wound alternator that won't turn on unless you rev past 3k which I'm obviously NOT going to do on first start-up) sat there and read a book while the thing ran for 1/2 hr.... as I do with all my rebuilds. First heat cycle is nothing by idle for 30 mins keeping a careful eye on temps/pressures. Well, about 10 minutes into the girl running like a top; all of a sudden she dropped down to one rotor. In a panic I shut the engine down and went through the motions. BRAND new plugs and they wet fouled the rear L & T and the front T. Those coils are nothing special and miserable for a rotary application.

If you're serious about wanting a better set of coils, PM me and I'll let you on a little secret. Seeing as how most of my knowledge just gets shunned lately, I'm really not feeling the need to share this little gem of information with the masses.

 

I agree they're not the best coils, but I have made over 1700hp on a BBC with a regular old set of Denso 580's. They're not a bad coil. I wouldn't use them for a high boost engine though..

I have also tuned some high hp rotary engines and some of them are tuned right around 6 degrees of timing..
There's many factors that determines how much timing is really necessary but to say 6 degrees is not enough show's your inexperience of high powered rotary's..