Dual oil coolers necessary?
#1
Dual oil coolers necessary?
I'm getting ready to do an auto trans to manual trans swap and I am debating about whether or not I want to run an additional oil cooler and lines. I'm thinking I'm not going to and here's why. Mazda only gave the Auto one oil cooler and one transmission cooler. So the engineers must have believed that one oil cooler would be sufficient for the REW. I can't see any correlation to higher oil temps just because you change out a tranny. No engine oil flows to the tranny. If anything, you would think the auto tranny would produce more ambient heat. I do not race my car, track it, or auto x it, but hey I admit it, I get on it pretty hard sometimes. Here's the question, Do we really need two oil coolers for a daily driver? Yes or no? And swap guys, any issues with oil temps after the swap?
#3
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the automatic cars get a single cooler for two reasons.
first, the transmission needs a cooler, so there isn't room for a second engine cooler. secondly, the a/t makes the engine spend more time at a lower Rpm.
if you're doing an a/t to m/t swap i see no reason you need to go to dual coolers right away, especially on a street car. put an oil temp gauge on it and see what temps are like.
also there are a few members who have a single cooler with a fan, so that is an option too.
first, the transmission needs a cooler, so there isn't room for a second engine cooler. secondly, the a/t makes the engine spend more time at a lower Rpm.
if you're doing an a/t to m/t swap i see no reason you need to go to dual coolers right away, especially on a street car. put an oil temp gauge on it and see what temps are like.
also there are a few members who have a single cooler with a fan, so that is an option too.
#5
Racecar - Formula 2000
My "93 Base FD has only one oil cooler and it came that way new. Even for short track runs I noticed no issues because of that. Now it's just used on the street, and for sure no problem.
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#8
It Just Feels Right
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Generally this is the case for a street driven non-modified FD, but if the car is street driven in New Mexico, dual coolers may be cheap insurance (used stock coolers), along with an aluminum radiator. It's also always good to install an aftermarket water temp gauge as the stock gauge sucks.
#9
Racecar - Formula 2000
Generally this is the case for a street driven non-modified FD, but if the car is street driven in New Mexico, dual coolers may be cheap insurance (used stock coolers), along with an aluminum radiator. It's also always good to install an aftermarket water temp gauge as the stock gauge sucks.
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=...structions.zip
I did that and it works well.
Last edited by DaveW; 01-07-17 at 06:08 PM. Reason: added last sentence
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ZekeO (05-11-20)
#10
Thank you all for the replies. Right now where I am in New Mexico it's 19 degrees outside and even in the summer, Temps are not that bad. We get a few hot days but nothing like Arizona experiences. I like the idea of the increased oil capacity, but not sure that the second cooler is really necessary at this point. I'm a freak about keeping engine temps where they should be. I have an aftermarket temp gauge, the FC thermoswitch, and when I had the PFC in it, monitored the water temp constantly. Lots of stuff removed from the bay and I have a feed hood which gets rid of that heat pretty quickly. I think I'll probably install an oil temp gauge as suggested to go along with my temp gauge, my oil pressure gauge, my boost gauge, and my afr gauge, lol. Oh yeah, in my mind, she's always operating above 4K, but in reality, she lives in the garage...a lot.
#11
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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I just read through the entire thread and if it's a stock powered street only FD that doesn't get driven 'spiritedly' then I suppose you're ok with one.
However, oil plays a very big role in cooling the internals of the rotary engine, and it leads a very hard life inside the 13B due to things like the stationary gear/rotor gear interface causing a shearing effect. It's very important to keep your oil temps in check--- piston engines can run much higher temps safely than we can.
Re: putting complete faith in what the engineers had in mind: these are the same engineers that gave us a plastic AST, thin plastic radiator, precat inches away from the twin turbos, coolant temp gauge that goes from 'normal' to 'engine hosed' in a few seconds, and rad fans that don't come on high til 105 degrees.
One thing I've learned in 20 years of playing with these cars: overbuild your fuel system, and overbuild your cooling system. Just sayin'
However, oil plays a very big role in cooling the internals of the rotary engine, and it leads a very hard life inside the 13B due to things like the stationary gear/rotor gear interface causing a shearing effect. It's very important to keep your oil temps in check--- piston engines can run much higher temps safely than we can.
Re: putting complete faith in what the engineers had in mind: these are the same engineers that gave us a plastic AST, thin plastic radiator, precat inches away from the twin turbos, coolant temp gauge that goes from 'normal' to 'engine hosed' in a few seconds, and rad fans that don't come on high til 105 degrees.
One thing I've learned in 20 years of playing with these cars: overbuild your fuel system, and overbuild your cooling system. Just sayin'
#12
+1. There really is no downside in this. I would not rule out dual coolers Chief. If you watch the FS section and can pickup a set of OEM with lines reasonably, do it as time and budget allows.
One other option I'd throw out is a boost activated WI system. It's inexpensive, reliable and removes a lot of load on the rest of the cooling system (including oil). It all but eliminates temp spiking during periods of boost...and you also get knock and carbon control. You can keep it almost invisible under the hood too.
One other option I'd throw out is a boost activated WI system. It's inexpensive, reliable and removes a lot of load on the rest of the cooling system (including oil). It all but eliminates temp spiking during periods of boost...and you also get knock and carbon control. You can keep it almost invisible under the hood too.
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i put an oil temp gauge in my R1, at the oil filter pedestal, and i found that oil temps followed vehicle speed. anything over 40mph, and oil temps were 180f, pretty much no matter what. under 40 mph, and it would gradually peg the gauge (240f? i picked the wrong temp range).
we know that WOT oil temps around 180f are about ideal, but idling in traffic 220f is actually probably better, there is no load on the engine, and 220f+ will start to burn off all the water, and other crap that gets in the oil.
we know that WOT oil temps around 180f are about ideal, but idling in traffic 220f is actually probably better, there is no load on the engine, and 220f+ will start to burn off all the water, and other crap that gets in the oil.
#14
To the OP
Do you NEED one? For your purposes, no. However Goodfella makes an excellent point:
With that said, my FD came with one cooler but I'm getting a second one put on to keep the car running even cooler. My thoughts are as follows: The less hard the coolant system has to work, the better for the car overall
Do you NEED one? For your purposes, no. However Goodfella makes an excellent point:
With that said, my FD came with one cooler but I'm getting a second one put on to keep the car running even cooler. My thoughts are as follows: The less hard the coolant system has to work, the better for the car overall
#15
I'm starting to agree. I've been doing lots of research and have determined that two are best. The ONLY engine upgrade that Mazda made to the R1 and R2 was an additional oil cooler. That means that someon in Mazda felt that one was not enough. People have reported that with dual oil coolers, oil temps follow water temps pretty closely. Single cooler oil temps are usually 5-10 centigrade degrees hotter that coolant temps. One guy reported 3-5 centigrade drop in coolant temps as well when a second cooler was added. So, there it is. And yes Jim, and Goodfellas I'm sure I won't tackle this right away but over time. I think I'll be okay for a little while. Besides I'm adding a 99 spec front which means I'm probably going to have to do some duct work. Owning this thing is kinda like owning a boat. Just keep dumping money in. But damn she's sexy.
#17
Non Runner
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I think this thread covers it pretty well, two oil coolers are preferable for any car and at the price of the parts to make the change, why wouldn't you .
#20
Senior Member
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I would say yes you need it. Why would you not spend the money on dual oil coolers? Honestly they are not that expensive, and the level of engine and turbo protection they provide outweigh the cost. Don't you want to have peace of mind when you drive the car? Going dual oil coolers will also let you push the car harder without worries of overheating/damage. Think of it as a reliability mod and just do it.
#22
Just Winging it
The Job itself is a breeze. Just re-route the oil feed line. I'm quite happy I did mine, nothing like a nicely cooled FD.
My temp around town and highway driving before hand would sit between 80C-90C (176F -194F)
After the second cooler, the temp sits between 70C-80C ( 158F - 176F)
Can't complain about that for such a cheap mod to do. I'm yet to test them on the track
My temp around town and highway driving before hand would sit between 80C-90C (176F -194F)
After the second cooler, the temp sits between 70C-80C ( 158F - 176F)
Can't complain about that for such a cheap mod to do. I'm yet to test them on the track
#24
^^That's sweet! I ordered an oil cooler from another member here and its should be on its way to me soon. With lines and fittings I should be around $150.00 total. So yeah, why not? Plus, when I go to the manual trans I'm pulling the Auto trans cooler and there would just be this big hole there. I was under the car last night and noticed I don't have any ducts at all so I guess i'm going to be fabbing some up as well. And before I do that I guess I'll wait on the 99 spec bumper im putting in...
#25
So more opinion needed. I just scored a real Mazda 99 spec bumper for cheap from a good friend. Now when Mazda changed the front end, they did not make/manufacture/include ducts to the oil coolers. In other words, earlier models had oil cooler ducts, the 99s did not. Are they necessary? I know that Rmagic still makes 99 spec oil cooler ducts and they are available from RHD Japan for about 150.00 bucks. 4-6 week manufacture time as they are made to order and then I'm sure shipping from Japan is expensive. So 2 month wait time at least. Are the cooler ducts necessary? Yes or no? And please let me know why whichever way you answer.