OFFICIAL Jacksonville, Fl Events/Chat/Misc Thread
11-29-12, 01:37 PM
#801
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I couldn't read the little letters and numbers underneath....but I took a couple pics if it's necessary...
What do you think?
11-29-12, 03:07 PM
#802
It's right there in the https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...faq-fc-494667/
It's an 89 NA ecu. If it doesn't have a DigitalTuning Inc. sticker on it then it's probably not an Rtek. I'd say that's probably a completely bone stock ecu. I wouldn't be 100% comfortable driving around with a bridgeported engine and a stock ECU, and you're only adding to frustration when you start putting in larger injectors without a way to modify their control signal. It probably flooded from the 550cc injectors soaking it down at idle, and who knows what it's doing at WOT and high RPM.
Do you know what was done to the engine to allow it to reach 13,000 rpm? That's pretty high, even for an S5. Unless the rotors were lightened, a lightened E-shaft (Rx8 shaft?) lightweight flywheel, underdrive pulleys installed, hardened stationary gears, race bearings of some sort, etc, then it probably shouldn't be going that high.
Try deflooding the car if you think you're up for it. I may take some photos and make a little how-to. I don't know of any how-to's with pictures for deflooding, so this may serve useful.
Don't forget to drain the cruddy gas out of the tank and replace it with fresh/clean fuel. Your engine will not run on old gas, and if it does by some miracle, it won't run well at all. The fuel filter is also probably gummy, so I HIGHLY recommend changing it. It's easiest to change underneath the car. It's right by the starter, and has 1 10mm bolt holding it on, and 2 hose clamps for the fuel lines. That's for stock stuff, you may have some super cool aftermarket fuel filter if you have braided steel fuel lines.
It's an 89 NA ecu. If it doesn't have a DigitalTuning Inc. sticker on it then it's probably not an Rtek. I'd say that's probably a completely bone stock ecu. I wouldn't be 100% comfortable driving around with a bridgeported engine and a stock ECU, and you're only adding to frustration when you start putting in larger injectors without a way to modify their control signal. It probably flooded from the 550cc injectors soaking it down at idle, and who knows what it's doing at WOT and high RPM.
Do you know what was done to the engine to allow it to reach 13,000 rpm? That's pretty high, even for an S5. Unless the rotors were lightened, a lightened E-shaft (Rx8 shaft?) lightweight flywheel, underdrive pulleys installed, hardened stationary gears, race bearings of some sort, etc, then it probably shouldn't be going that high.
Try deflooding the car if you think you're up for it. I may take some photos and make a little how-to. I don't know of any how-to's with pictures for deflooding, so this may serve useful.
Don't forget to drain the cruddy gas out of the tank and replace it with fresh/clean fuel. Your engine will not run on old gas, and if it does by some miracle, it won't run well at all. The fuel filter is also probably gummy, so I HIGHLY recommend changing it. It's easiest to change underneath the car. It's right by the starter, and has 1 10mm bolt holding it on, and 2 hose clamps for the fuel lines. That's for stock stuff, you may have some super cool aftermarket fuel filter if you have braided steel fuel lines.
11-29-12, 03:32 PM
#803
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It's right there in the https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...faq-fc-494667/
It's an 89 NA ecu. If it doesn't have a DigitalTuning Inc. sticker on it then it's probably not an Rtek. I'd say that's probably a completely bone stock ecu. I wouldn't be 100% comfortable driving around with a bridgeported engine and a stock ECU, and you're only adding to frustration when you start putting in larger injectors without a way to modify their control signal. It probably flooded from the 550cc injectors soaking it down at idle, and who knows what it's doing at WOT and high RPM.
It's an 89 NA ecu. If it doesn't have a DigitalTuning Inc. sticker on it then it's probably not an Rtek. I'd say that's probably a completely bone stock ecu. I wouldn't be 100% comfortable driving around with a bridgeported engine and a stock ECU, and you're only adding to frustration when you start putting in larger injectors without a way to modify their control signal. It probably flooded from the 550cc injectors soaking it down at idle, and who knows what it's doing at WOT and high RPM.
Do you know what was done to the engine to allow it to reach 13,000 rpm? That's pretty high, even for an S5. Unless the rotors were lightened, a lightened E-shaft (Rx8 shaft?) lightweight flywheel, underdrive pulleys installed, hardened stationary gears, race bearings of some sort, etc, then it probably shouldn't be going that high.
Don't forget to drain the cruddy gas out of the tank and replace it with fresh/clean fuel. Your engine will not run on old gas, and if it does by some miracle, it won't run well at all. The fuel filter is also probably gummy, so I HIGHLY recommend changing it. It's easiest to change underneath the car. It's right by the starter, and has 1 10mm bolt holding it on, and 2 hose clamps for the fuel lines. That's for stock stuff, you may have some super cool aftermarket fuel filter if you have braided steel fuel lines.
11-29-12, 04:04 PM
#804
You were able to drive it because it probably had great compression when you started. As you romp on an engine, it's just going to lose compression as it wears. Short starts of the engine also contribute to flooding. That means you start the car for a short period of time, maybe moving it out of the driveway and parking it on the street or vice versa. When the engine's cold, it needs a ton more fuel to stay running. If you kill it before fully warming up, it won't have time for the engine to fully regain compression, and all that extra fuel after killing it literally washes the compression away.
The higher the octane rating, the harder it is for the fuel to ignite. The higher octane fuel requires more energy to ignite, which is why it's needed in high compression or forced-induction engines, as the engine will detonate with a low octane fuel. That happens when the fuel ignites too early and causes an explosion vs. a combustion. Higher octane fuels allow you to safely make more power, but you DO NOT get better power from them.
The higher the octane rating, the harder it is for the fuel to ignite. The higher octane fuel requires more energy to ignite, which is why it's needed in high compression or forced-induction engines, as the engine will detonate with a low octane fuel. That happens when the fuel ignites too early and causes an explosion vs. a combustion. Higher octane fuels allow you to safely make more power, but you DO NOT get better power from them.
11-29-12, 04:14 PM
#805
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You were able to drive it because it probably had great compression when you started. As you romp on an engine, it's just going to lose compression as it wears. Short starts of the engine also contribute to flooding. That means you start the car for a short period of time, maybe moving it out of the driveway and parking it on the street or vice versa. When the engine's cold, it needs a ton more fuel to stay running. If you kill it before fully warming up, it won't have time for the engine to fully regain compression, and all that extra fuel after killing it literally washes the compression away.
The higher the octane rating, the harder it is for the fuel to ignite. The higher octane fuel requires more energy to ignite, which is why it's needed in high compression or forced-induction engines, as the engine will detonate with a low octane fuel. That happens when the fuel ignites too early and causes an explosion vs. a combustion. Higher octane fuels allow you to safely make more power, but you DO NOT get better power from them.
Last edited by Matthys333; 11-29-12 at 04:16 PM. Reason: forgot to add something
11-30-12, 07:58 AM
#806
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I just read the "write-up" on getting an RX-7 going after sitting for a while....it looks like a pain in the @$$.
Hopefully I don't need to do all those things...Part of the reason I would like a guru next to me so we can blast thru all the checks and changes to get it going quickly.
If it's going to need more parts than I want to spend now, I'll probably just wait for spring to get it going again....
Hopefully I don't need to do all those things...Part of the reason I would like a guru next to me so we can blast thru all the checks and changes to get it going quickly.
If it's going to need more parts than I want to spend now, I'll probably just wait for spring to get it going again....
11-30-12, 10:45 AM
#807
The added benefit of running 93 is the added detergents from some companys.
I would say put some oil in the rotors, just to make sure you have some good lube on the housings, it may also help you build compression for starting. Like I said oil will not hurt your engine as long as you dont hydro-lock it.
This is going to be a fun day, I am going to try to fix some of the issues the 7 has today. New front pads, clutch, and washer bottle.
I would say put some oil in the rotors, just to make sure you have some good lube on the housings, it may also help you build compression for starting. Like I said oil will not hurt your engine as long as you dont hydro-lock it.
This is going to be a fun day, I am going to try to fix some of the issues the 7 has today. New front pads, clutch, and washer bottle.
11-30-12, 01:33 PM
#808
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The added benefit of running 93 is the added detergents from some companys.
I would say put some oil in the rotors, just to make sure you have some good lube on the housings, it may also help you build compression for starting. Like I said oil will not hurt your engine as long as you dont hydro-lock it.
This is going to be a fun day, I am going to try to fix some of the issues the 7 has today. New front pads, clutch, and washer bottle.
I would say put some oil in the rotors, just to make sure you have some good lube on the housings, it may also help you build compression for starting. Like I said oil will not hurt your engine as long as you dont hydro-lock it.
This is going to be a fun day, I am going to try to fix some of the issues the 7 has today. New front pads, clutch, and washer bottle.
I forgot, what hydro-locking is? What causes it and how can it be avoided?
11-30-12, 01:59 PM
#809
That's a hard call to make. I'd run 93 if it were mine. This is solely based on all the ridiculous crap done to it, along with the completely stock ECU.
That's actually got me kind of wondering now actually. The stock ECU is only tuned for a certain RPM range. Say, for instance, the fuel map (and ignition map) go from 30"Hg to say 5 psi (I've heard the S5 can somehow use scavenging to actually create pressure of about 2 psi in the intake, not sure how true that is though). And the x axis is 0 rpm to 9,000 rpm. Obviously the tuner will have the end points slightly higher than the engine can go. So since the S5 was supposed to redline at 8k, the tuner may account for over-revs or such and potentially go up to 10k. Anyways, past that, the ecu just outputs what the last fuel bin read. So if you go up to 13k, it's still injecting the fuel required at 10k.
This is all theory, as I don't really have a fuel map for the S5 on hand. Just something to be aware of. Unless you really know that the ECU knows what to do at 13k rpm, I wouldn't risk it. That's when it doesn't inject enough fuel and you start detonating, which causes some serious engine damage.
Keep putting 93 in it for now. You need a standalone ECU in a bad way if you're going to be hot-******* it like that.
Hydrolock:
Let me google that for you
It's when you put in too much liquid in the engine and it physically can't rotate it because liquid is not compressible. Air is, but not liquid. So don't put a cold air intake that reaches to the ground then go through a puddle. It will suck up water in the engine and hydrolock it. The same goes for putting too much oil in the intake. It'll lock that sucker up.
Hopefully I can get time this weekend to go play. I have some stuff going on, so we'll see how this goes. I'd love to come help out, or at the least come see the 13k rpm Rx7.
That's actually got me kind of wondering now actually. The stock ECU is only tuned for a certain RPM range. Say, for instance, the fuel map (and ignition map) go from 30"Hg to say 5 psi (I've heard the S5 can somehow use scavenging to actually create pressure of about 2 psi in the intake, not sure how true that is though). And the x axis is 0 rpm to 9,000 rpm. Obviously the tuner will have the end points slightly higher than the engine can go. So since the S5 was supposed to redline at 8k, the tuner may account for over-revs or such and potentially go up to 10k. Anyways, past that, the ecu just outputs what the last fuel bin read. So if you go up to 13k, it's still injecting the fuel required at 10k.
This is all theory, as I don't really have a fuel map for the S5 on hand. Just something to be aware of. Unless you really know that the ECU knows what to do at 13k rpm, I wouldn't risk it. That's when it doesn't inject enough fuel and you start detonating, which causes some serious engine damage.
Keep putting 93 in it for now. You need a standalone ECU in a bad way if you're going to be hot-******* it like that.
Hydrolock:
Let me google that for you
It's when you put in too much liquid in the engine and it physically can't rotate it because liquid is not compressible. Air is, but not liquid. So don't put a cold air intake that reaches to the ground then go through a puddle. It will suck up water in the engine and hydrolock it. The same goes for putting too much oil in the intake. It'll lock that sucker up.
Hopefully I can get time this weekend to go play. I have some stuff going on, so we'll see how this goes. I'd love to come help out, or at the least come see the 13k rpm Rx7.
11-30-12, 02:50 PM
#810
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Agreen- the guy who popped my engine on the dyno is named ABel from Abel performance in orlando. The guys had skills in other car areas. Like chassi building and fabrications. But he fucked up when he told me he knew how to tune haltechs. HE didnt. He set my split at 0 split across the whole map and my leadin map was a flat 20deg. recipe for KABOOM!> I should of taking legal action since there were no waivers signed.
@mattys. Do you still have the carburetor stuff? If it ran fine... i would of left it. Unfortunately. If I had a shop and you asked to make it efi with out a tunable computer... I would have refused and would have explained to you that it would run way better with carb on there.
What rpm did the car used to idle with carb on.. and what rpm does it idle with efi now?? Is it a full bridgeport?
@mattys. Do you still have the carburetor stuff? If it ran fine... i would of left it. Unfortunately. If I had a shop and you asked to make it efi with out a tunable computer... I would have refused and would have explained to you that it would run way better with carb on there.
What rpm did the car used to idle with carb on.. and what rpm does it idle with efi now?? Is it a full bridgeport?
11-30-12, 03:53 PM
#811
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Keep putting 93 in it for now. You need a standalone ECU in a bad way if you're going to be hot-******* it like that.
Hopefully I can get time this weekend to go play. I have some stuff going on, so we'll see how this goes. I'd love to come help out, or at the least come see the 13k rpm Rx7.
Hopefully I can get time this weekend to go play. I have some stuff going on, so we'll see how this goes. I'd love to come help out, or at the least come see the 13k rpm Rx7.
@mattys. Do you still have the carburetor stuff? If it ran fine... i would of left it. Unfortunately. If I had a shop and you asked to make it efi with out a tunable computer... I would have refused and would have explained to you that it would run way better with carb on there.
What rpm did the car used to idle with carb on.. and what rpm does it idle with efi now?? Is it a full bridgeport?
What rpm did the car used to idle with carb on.. and what rpm does it idle with efi now?? Is it a full bridgeport?
It idles at the same when it was a carb and FI...although I don't exactly remember what it was....maybe around 900rpms? bouncing of coarse bc of the porting.
It is a full bridgeport...
11-30-12, 04:45 PM
#812
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
900 rpm and a full bridge port just doesnt sound right... I bet its jus hella flooded man. IF it were mine. I would do compression test... if all pulses are even... I would deflood procedure(efi fuse).. put a damn good battery in it(or batt tender) with fresh spark plugs and hope that beast starts! IF i can start a car on leading only.. or on one rotor....(bad injector1 time and blown seals the other) like i have... im sure you got this.
Thats the least you could do to get the engine fired up.
Thats the least you could do to get the engine fired up.
11-30-12, 06:17 PM
#813
I ran into someone who claimed to be making 700HP out of a 13b EGI (the GLS-SE engine). He said that he had that guy build it for him. He said it was streetported, doweled, coupled with a GT35. 700HP. And that was with the stock SE drivetrain as well.
11-30-12, 07:44 PM
#814
Yep. The best shop, right?
I ran into someone who claimed to be making 700HP out of a 13b EGI (the GLS-SE engine). He said that he had that guy build it for him. He said it was streetported, doweled, coupled with a GT35. 700HP. And that was with the stock SE drivetrain as well.
I ran into someone who claimed to be making 700HP out of a 13b EGI (the GLS-SE engine). He said that he had that guy build it for him. He said it was streetported, doweled, coupled with a GT35. 700HP. And that was with the stock SE drivetrain as well.
I run out of time today trying to put my clutch in at the hobby shop. The sucky part is I have to work tomorrow and sunday, so if I dont get off at a decent time I am going to be out 6/hr from 9am till I get the sucker off the lift or 5pm rolls around. I found a few issues before the clutch, that I spend an hour and a half on. My coilover were off almost 1 in left to right the right being lower. I found out the driver rear coilover was leaking oil like crazy, my bets are it is blown, at least I have new front pads. and the tires with the flat spots are on the back.
12-01-12, 09:19 AM
#815
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900 rpm and a full bridge port just doesnt sound right... I bet its jus hella flooded man. IF it were mine. I would do compression test... if all pulses are even... I would deflood procedure(efi fuse).. put a damn good battery in it(or batt tender) with fresh spark plugs and hope that beast starts! IF i can start a car on leading only.. or on one rotor....(bad injector1 time and blown seals the other) like i have... im sure you got this.
Thats the least you could do to get the engine fired up.
Thats the least you could do to get the engine fired up.
If it's "flooded", is it recommended to try and get some stock injectors and just ride them out until I can upgrade a stand-alone? Would this have any changes in the power?
I know the battery is really good, I just have to charge it. Guess I grab some OEM spark plugs too.
Either way, I'm just going to sit tight until someone has some free time to come play around on it with me. I'm in no rush right now anyway...
12-01-12, 11:54 AM
#820
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
I would try the injectors that have been made to work with the "setup". SO, no dont change to others. Do you have an adjustable AFR? This can always help adjust fuel a little.
12-01-12, 12:06 PM
#821
Brap! Brap! Brap!
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I'm no professional at it, so it may be completely off and why it's flooding.
All of these recommendations, and considerations would be more useful making adjustments and changes in person.
There's a list of things that I should do, but I'm sitting put till someone has the time to come by and help me with it.
