how sad his thread turned into this. He was excited about his new car! We should be congratulating our fellow rotorhead on his new purchase!!


............After all... he COULD have spent the same $$ for an S2K or something less cool.

 

Hey not to go off topic here, but if you get your license suspended in one state, can you move to another and get one there? Just curious

 

I must have mistyped then - I think the 8 is a better handling car for the average Joe since it has the traction and stability control. I know we are all guilty of benchmark racing and quoting stats, and in regards to acceleration from 0-60, the 8 seems to be lacking, the problem concerning handling is that alot of it's subjective in nature and what each driver feels comfortable with. Although a FD might have better lat g's on the skidpad test, that doesn't always directly related to a better handling car. Slalom testing and speed through a slalom is something I'd rather look at since the car is in motion, using it's suspension, tires and also has driver input and feedback. It seems like a more real world worthy test than a wet circle drifting test. What are the slalom speeds on the FD and 8 according to the same car magazines test?

No matter what we are typing, pros and cons, I think you'll enjoy your new 8.

Tim

 

I have a 7, and also an 8. I'm not going to tell you about how one is better then the other, and vice versa... They are both fun cars to play with. Yes they both have their strength and they both have their weeknesses.... You'll soon come to find them out and love each car for what they are. I do believe you'll enjoy your Shinka, and come to love it just as much as your RX-7. Congrats on your purchase!!! Now get off the forums and go play!!!

 

personally, i would rather have an S2000. jk, congrats on the purchase!

 

You would...

 

I'd rather have my ********* put into a vice than have an s2000...As far an opinion on the rx8 and rx7...well.. I like the rx8's I think they are beautiful cars, nice curves and fast enough for just about anybody.. rx7 wise.. I wouldn't drive one older than 89.. but thats just me. Definate congrats on the new 8 though, for sure.!!

 

newer is what i mean! ..no 3rd gens -.-

 

[QUOTE=trickshot]Oh, please. Let's get real, shall we?

Let's start with the wheelbase. The shorter a car's wheelbase the more nimble the handling. This is one of the reasons a Miata has a shorter turning circle than a Lincoln limo. A shorter wheelbase means a quicker response to inputs. Compare the RX-7 and RX-8 wheelbases and then let that one sink in for a few minutes.

Then look at stock test results for the two cars (and remember that the FD results with early 90's tires). The cornering force measured for the FD is anywhere from .04 to .08 higher. And that's not to mention the FD is 200 lbs lighter, and as we all know weight is the enemy of performance.

I will concede one advantage to the RX-8 - steering feel. The FD's power steering is overboosted. The RX-8 is much better weighted. Same goes for the Mazdaspeed Miata turbo. I just drove one this weekend. The Mazdaspeed Miata has the same nicely weighted steering you experience on the RX-8. The chassis rigidity was very good too, especially considering it's an open car. But man, I felt a distinct lack of low end grunt in the Miata. It's appreciably slower than an RX-8 and no comparison to the FD. But it's still a nice car. I like all 3 of them that have been mentioned. Like any car, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
QUOTE]


I am being real. I have both a 7 and an 8. Going around a circle and measuring static G's is not "handling". On a fast track the 7 will be faster because of the superior power. I said the 8 will outhandle the 7, you can place all the exceptions you want on that but on the street, stock for stock, the 8 is a better handling car.

Read all the road tests you want. Then go drive the car and judge for yourself. I wasn't "dissing" anyone's car. Like I said I have both.

But the 7 is more fun.

Again this is just MHO, no one get their panties in a bind

 

[QUOTE=ferragame
I am being real. I have both a 7 and an 8. Going around a circle and measuring static G's is not "handling". On a fast track the 7 will be faster because of the superior power. I said the 8 will outhandle the 7, you can place all the exceptions you want on that but on the street, stock for stock, the 8 is a better handling car.

Read all the road tests you want. Then go drive the car and judge for yourself. I wasn't "dissing" anyone's car. Like I said I have both.

But the 7 is more fun.

Again this is just MHO, no one get their panties in a bind [/QUOTE]


I too have driven both. I've even drive both base and R model FD's when they were new. The R model is one of the best handling cars ever. It's reaction to driver steering inputs is near instaneous. It beats even a series 1 Lotus Elise in this regard (a car I have also driven extensively. The Elise is more "tossable" but the FD goes through turns faster.) The RX8 just can't compare to this virtually race car level of handling and response. The gap with the base suspension is narrower, but the advantage still goes to the FD.

Handling is a broad term that is not just one thing. And it's true there are subjective elements to it. (As I stated previously I think the RX-8's steering feels better weighted, whereas the FD feels over-assisted.) But in other significant details the FD has the advantage. It weighs less by 200+ lbs, it's got a significantly shorter wheelbase making it more nimble, and it's shorter in overall legnth, which for me darting in and out of spaces in traffic makes it easier to place the car, and the FD has a 50/50 weight distribution, while the RX-8 sits at 52/48.

In addition there have been significant advances in tire technology since the FD was designed which has only added to its advantages.

I'm guessing we agree more than we disagree. You say the FD is faster around a track and is more fun to drive. I also think the RX-8 is a great handling car. Not superlative, but in the upper tier of current showroom models.

But given a road course and an example of each in good and stock condition I don't doubt which one I (and probably you) would pick for the fastest corner speeds and lap times.

 

whats so bad about the s2000? what part of 250hp, 2800lbs, & 50/50 weight dist dont you understand?? im dont dig the convertible part, but other than that, id say it would outperform an rx-8 any day

 

i like the rx8's but i think they were a poor choice to be the successor's of the rx7. normally as time passes they make the car look better and faster than the earlier generation but for some reason they reversed it. i drift my fd, i've tried drifting an rx8 with some good suspension, and the platform just didnt feel nearly as good.

 

Thats awesome Blake hurry and post pix. SMASH these haters. I wish I could bring my family to the meets in my rotary.-Erik

 

When Ford took effective control of Mazda they were down on the rotary. They were especially appalled at the cost of the engine in the FD. The cost of the engine in the FD was much higher relative to the cost of the rest of the car than any other model in the Mazda line. Ford laid down an edict: no more rotary sportscars.

But Mazda corporate culture had been committed to the rotary. Mazda engineers got around the new edict by making the Evolv (RX-8 prototype) a 4 door (but still more of a sport coupe than a sedan.) When the Evolv showcar proved to be a success it was greenlighted for production.

So in the rotary world it was either the RX-8 or no rotary engine cars at all.

 

I own a 93 MB FD and a 05' Shinka as my sig suggests, and I've autocrossed them both.

Bottom line:

The Rx8 responds and handles better than the FD. It can sustain a faster slalom speed and the power band is predictable (like most NA cars), which makes powering through corners consistant.

However, the FD is a lighter, more powerful car and can easily make up for these discrepancies.

As far as auto-x goes, yes the Rx8 is the B-stock class champ despite being +50hp weaker than its competitors (the 350Z and BMW M3).

 

Really?

It will be difficult to do an apples to apples comparison here, but this is what I came up with on short notice.

This source provides some FD slalom figures:

http://www.lemmings.com/mark/rx7specs.htm

It reports U.S. model FD slalom speeds of 68-71 mph. I'm assuming the difference is due to the standard and R-model suspension differences.

It also appears from the info on the webpage that this data comes from the 93-95 era, which mean the performance figures were based on tires that no longer exist. It's not unreasonable to assume that contemporary rubber would produce equal or better results.

The road test of an RX-8 in my August 2004 issue of Road & Track shows a slalom speed of 68.4 mph.

So it appears both cars are in the same range when it comes to slalom speeds.
There's no question about which car is superior when it comes to maxium cornering force. Road tests consistently show the standard suspension FD pulling
.94 - .95 g. The R-models pull .97 - .99 g. (results again on early 90's tires.)

RX-8 figures hover consistently in the .89 - .91 g range. (This Road & Track test reports .89.)

So does the claim for superior RX-8 handling come down to subjective impressions?

The way I read your post you seem to indicate you believe the FD would beat the RX-8 on an autocross course. That would be an "objective" measure of handling (to some degree.) And it's certainly valid to include subjective impressions in an assessment of handling. There's also the "fun" factor, and what many call "tossability." Generally, lighter cars are more "tossable."

I know there is a way to measure response time. That is the time from when the driver makes a steering input to the fraction of a second later when the car actually responds. I have never seen any of this kind of sophisticated data published for either the RX-7 or the RX-8. I have however driven both a showroom fresh 94 RX-7 R2 and a 2004 RX-8 and I can't believe anyone would claim the RX-8 is more responsive. It's literally unbelievable. However I could believe an RX-8 that has been competition prepared with upgraded shocks and other suspension components would respond better than a worn, or possibly stock FD.
As I say, fair apples to apples comparisons can be difficult to come by.

 

[QUOTE=ferragame]I'm a little confused and don't take it the wrong way. Are you saying the RX-8 handles better even though the FD has higher magazine stats? But on the track due to it's lighter weight and more power and torque, the FD would be faster and more fun to drive?

If so, I agree like I stated above - the 8 can be driven faster around a tight track or winding road (tail of the dragon) for the reasons I mentioned above (traction and stability control).

Tim

 

here's a comparison from just Motor Trend's tests of the 2 cars;

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ecs_price.html
http://www.fd3s.net/magazine_article...article01.html

Shows the FD has a better slalom speed which surprised me to be frank about it. I take magazine numbers as a baseline idea of the car's performance since every magazine's times will be different. Comparing numbers from 1 magazine seems more fair than comparing R&T test reviews to Motor Trend or Car&driver test reviews. Anyone else able to pull up comparo data from the same magazine like above?

Tim

 

About ~1 year ago, I had compared the skidpad and slalom ratings from some site (R&T, SportsCar, or something, I forget). The Rx8 was up by less than a 1mph on the Rx7, but that was basically the only stat. I figured it had something to do with the angled suspension travel.

I think the Rx-8 is easier to drive fast, but...

... the Rx-7 has more potiental for this reason.

My butt sensor at work. The track numbers may prove otherwise.

They are both great cars. Totally different power levels, but very competitive suspension technology.

 

Something is funky with the 2nd magazine article. The Supra is beating the Rx-7 in most of the ratings, but put both on a autocross track and the FD would win hands down.

 

Any pics yet, or has he started a new thread ;0

 

Not getting the Shinka. Got a much better deal on a 06 Grand Touring. I will have pix Monday as that is the day i will be picking her up. This one will be turning heads alot more than the Shinka will for sure, plus i will have money to spend for mods.

 

It's going to be difficult to get a direct, fair, apples to apples comparison. I agree, using the same source, as you did with Motor Trend, is a good way to go.

Because there can be so many variables, what I look for in these things is a consensus range. What I see in these numbers is that both the FD and the RX-8 are very close in the slalom, and the FD has a significant advantage in ultimate cornering force as measured on a skidpad (which is dry, incidentally.)

Handling is more than just these two numbers, but at the time they show that it'd be difficult to maintain that the RX-8 is just flat out the better handler.

I keep stressing tires for two reasons. One, they're very important to handling, and 2, the FD numbers come from early 90's tires which aren't (or shouldn't be) around anymore. Given the advances in tire technology over the past 12 years it's reasonable to expect a current FD would produce even better numbers, assuming the suspension is in good shape.

 

Please remove this thread! Wow, i was just happy to get a RX-8 and it turned out to be this other debate type ****. Hey everyone, i am getting my rx-8 tomorrow and if you dont like the car i am sorry. I will go out and spen 15000 on a 14 year old 3rd gen without a warrenty and as soon as something happens to it, wich we all know will at some point, then i will be able to sell it for 5000! Any of you see my point?

 

I thought it turned into a nice debate with info at the end, not just biased opinions on what model we like best.

I hope you enjoy the 8, great car.

Tim