Ernie what's the secret? Racing as Ito stated will break parts. It's part of the game right? I mean isn't that the reason your car hasn't be out racing lately? Do you wanna try a different engine builder?

I feel that racing a piston engine might be easier and cheaper to maintain. If I'm wrong then I will admit I'm wrong. Time will tell.. But besides that I still have a rotary powered rx-7 that will be racing next year too. So it's the best of both worlds..

You asked about freshing up motors? Well my rotarys were good for anywhere between 15~20 runs before I needed to open them. Could they last longer? Probably. Depends on a few things. My car, and me, was violent and hard on motors so they wouldn't last as long as I would've liked..... Piston motors will get a full season before opening or 50~75 runs. And more suited to my driving style.. :) Freshing a piston motor is usually only rings and bearings. So that's also cheaper then replacing seals, springs, closeup kits, etc... Again if I'm wrong I'll admit it but let's see what happens.. Won't know unless you try right? Better then assuming?

I enjoy racing both pistons and rotary's and next year I will get to race both..

If you're running a 6 second rotary or a 6 second piston engine race car, the cost of racing a season regardless of engine failures, is going to be very high. IRS guys have it even worse because the rearend is a weak failure point and tractions is pretty much non existant. If you put a solid 4 link ford nine inch in your rx7 and pulled the boost out, you can make a very reliable high 7 to 8 second car and have fun. Like I said, the faster you go the more money you will throw down. Going to a low 7 second and 6 second car is really pushing the limits of rotary and piston engine cars and failures and rebuilds will be a regular occurance. Reliability in this league will be determined by the builder and tuner. But one things for certain, going this fast shit is going to break regardless on how well you build or tune. So I don't see how much more money you are going to save running a piston engine set up, especially when there are 10x more parts and when failures occur the price will be alot higher.

Besides, I don't care if you run a piston engine car, for the love of God, just don't put one in an RX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of the things you deem unnecessary, ie, more dowels, stud kit, 2 piece e-shaft, would make your engine last longer. Thats how my engines last 1.5 years of abuse track only. Not driving to 7/11. I wish you luck, but I'll stick with the rotary. What class would you build your car to fit in? Your last car was over a second off the field. Great if your chasing time slips, but not actual racing. I built my car to fit in the street class. And won multiple races. I wish you luck, but I still think you could have done better with the rotary and gave up way too soon.

Well I don't know about how piston engine is builted in the East but here in the midwest most of our pistons racing buddy quit because of high cost of keeping it running. We got 2 piston guy going with rotary because of low cost. Well good luck with your project.

Wish you the best of luck in whatever motor you run. I think your heart will remain rotary though! Are you getting sponsorship$ or a motor? Just curious.

I have scene fast ass v8's, v6's inline 6's and 4 cyl, but nothing is more impressive than a fastass rotary! Atleast down here in redneck land!

Geez, everyone on the Rx7club is an expert. Ain't nothing wrong with adding a piston motor to the line up. He already has his bro's car plus the new 13B chassis car to keep the rotary juices flowing. I totally understand if his decision was based on the future of his business or family related. Do you guys think it's easy to race a high HP rotary, raise 2 kids, a wife & make the mortgage in NY? Get real fellas because it ain't easy. I made the switch to pistons and I've seen major increases in business, but at the end of the day I'm just doing what's best for my pocket. I'm still a rotary lover for life!

To the expert(s) out there... There ain't no 1 perfect combo to build a fast reliable rotary. There are many roads that will take you to the same destination. Some may be more efficient than others, but at the end of the day it will give you similar results. There are quite a few cars that run 7.1's @ 190's all day long without ceramic seals, billet shafts and the other fancy stuff some people feel that is necessary to going fast.

Enzo, good luck... You know it don't matter if you run a rotary or a piston, the NY boys respect's your decision and will treat you the same.

I can attest to that. We call you the Italian with the heavy right foot :lol: ... That Rx7 is always bouncing of the limiter in the lanes and the pits :lol:

No one is saying it's easy Aaron. We're all racers here and know what it takes but like you just said, "There are quite a few cars that run 7.1's @ 190's all day long without ceramic seals and billet shafts."

So why the change to a piston engine if this is so attainable and reliable?

Forgive us all if we don't all drop down and agree with Enzo..... we're in a " ROTARY" drag race forum for crying out loud. What did he expect?

Well, good luck next year Enzo.... that is with the rotary car. LOL

:gayboy::crackup:
ANY DRAG CAR IS BURNING MONEY AN ID RATHER BURN ROTA SEALS THAN PISTONY RINGOS THINGOS :burn:












































Ps enzo is one of my hero irs racers along with the original the timemachine

Not trying to speak for Enzo but maybe due to his driving style, a piston engine will be better suited for the job... Enzo got a heavy right foot, so does Dee.. If that little 2.3L Mazda take's Dee's high revving habits, then I'm sure Enzo will have tons of funs at the track while still being able to tend to his customers. I'm sure at times it get's frustrating when you gotta worry about your own car as well as customers cars on race day. Having a reliable piston combo will ease some stress for sure.

The all mighty reliable piston motor...a 2JZ no less...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRvhsTgOS8Q

That and about 10 other all mighty 2JZ powered piston cars all blew up at MIR for Import vs Domestics this year, including the 2JZ pwred S2000. SO much for that reliability theory.

And the whole "I have a heavy foot" theory...please. We ain't goin for a sunday stroll down the drag strip.

Reliable piston motor in RX7 vid......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sYApXA1wd4

hahaha ernieT thats my bosses car , it had a 20b pp supercharged motor in it when that happened, its got a toyota v8 in it now, actually i just got back from the workshop, we had to remove the heads and fit new copper gaskets and relap every valve , now in a 1uz v8 thats a cunt of a job , thats 32 valves to be re lapped and then all the shims adjusted under the buckets , so thats only two meets we got out of it, with a grand total of 9 passes before the seats were fucked .
Granted the car runs around 1500 hp and it has stock heads so its to be expected .

This is its last pass, it was getting soft buy then, no top end charge left in it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTU6snudajs

AFTER seeing that i feel dirty that i am a defector to the dark side of piston converted rx7 drag cars :gayboy::icon_no2:

The truth comes out now!!!!!

haha yeh im only having some fun in this thread, i sent enzo a pm explaining my case, im a rota die hard, but i truthfully encourage any form of drag racing at the track .































































































































Ps i still think enzo needs to buy some concrete and harden the fuck up :slap:

got some more rx7 piston porn for ya enzo :wave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h-jvo4J7tY






































































but this ones better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPFWgqrxM8
:lol:

^ All that v8 power and it still only runs a 7.5? Shoot our little 1.3 liters put that to shame. How much money does he have in that motor?

Oh and please someone explain to me how any type of engine can suite to someone's drag racing driving habits? That makes absolutely no sense to me. We are drag racing so I hope you have your foot all the way to the floor! And if you are over reving your motor and causing damage, then your stupid because that's why they invented rev limiters. :banghead:

^ If you were on a budget and wanted to run a 8 second car all season, what motor would you choose? A 1000hp 13b or a 1000hp Ford 302?

Just for a second, I don't want you to think with your heart. Think with your pockets and with logic.



**drives off in my V8** :lol:

Hey Enzo, the turbo is even on the same side as your 13b... It was meant to be :rofl:

https://img122.imageshack.us/img122/5963/img4310or4.jpg

Good ole Rx7club humor.... Wonder if the Toyota boys piss and moan when we put Rotarys in those Starlets and Corollas :lol:

Well, if I was in a budget and didn't have enough money to run a rotary in the 8 second range, then I would step down and run in a 9 second class with a rotary, so on and so fourth..

But if I was gagged and forced to run a piston engine, I would choose a Chevy.... everyone knows chevy is the cheapest amongst the domestic engines to race. Thats why you see ford guys running chevy engines- another thing people do that make die hard Chevy and Ford guys have gag reflexes.

Putting a Chevy engine in a Ford body is like....... well putting a 4banger in a RX7 :lol::lol::lol:... it just doesn't belong.

While we are on this subject of money saving. How much does it cost to put that 2.3 Mazda engine setup together? Just like the one pictured above in Dee's setup^^^^. I can bet me left nut it's alot more expensive than a rotary engine.

I know alot of v8 cars running low 9's to high 8's that goes through afew motor in 1 season. Here in KC we got 2 rotary that runs high 8's for the whole year without opening up the motor. Guess it's time for the bench racer to come out when the season it over?:icon_no2:


Once again good luck to Enzo on his experimental project. Heck if I get everything caught up we might try to take the irs record but that's going to be afew years from now :D

ENZO just don't forget your rotary tuning skills and we are good!

ENZO, Congratulations of your baby daughter, God Bless you and the family!!!

Congrats on the 8.60 also! Very impressive job!

As for the old and new shoe thing! Do what YOU want to do! You can't and will NEVER make everyone happy.

Do your thing man! :nod: Best of luck in all that ya do!

Mark

Many props! Good Luck!

I bring you our local 4 cylinder guy, running 8's (1,000 HP) and making the 4,000 mile Hot Rod Tour.

I'd like to see any rotary doing that......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDlGmWHwnRA

I don't see why a rotary couldn't do that.

Are you a rotary guy or not? If you are, it sure doesn't sound like it.

I'm sure any of the low 7 sec rotary cars could if you take some power out of them. They would be able to do that.

Enzo good luck on your new setup. I'm sure you will be fast.

It's just that rotarys are so damn different than the rest. The fact that the same engine running 13s is the same engine running 7s, no bigger pistons to sleeving no custom heads no stroker kits just a simple 1.3 kegg can. That right there is what I love..

+1 on that :icon_tup:

Everyone and their mom races piston engines and I love the look on their faces when a little sewing machine engine kicks their butts. Its priceless.

Well I read this entire thread thus far and to be honest I don't see it as such a big deal. So Enzo decided to go the piston route. Many said it was a cop out but I don't, more like trying something new since he didn't get exactly what he was looking for from his resources and the mighty little 13b engine. Enzo good luck this coming year with this new setup least you didn't put in a small block chevy or ford in there even though that would be nice in my eyes with a solid rear. My opinion would be to not backhalf the FC, mini tub it instead and keep it stock style suspension with the liberty...

I agree with not cutting it up to much... The "stock compact" class in PR is very hot at the moment, plus there are quite a few of those cars here in the US so it'll be nice to see a mini tubbed piston powered Rx7 compete with all the rotary cars.

Maniatico is the T2 King right now...
https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3638/maniatico.jpg

"sucio dificil" <-- As they say back in the island :egrin:

any info on who these guys are ^^^ , look sweet az bru

A comparison :) Rene posted it on facebook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xys2q_uItng

A 4,000 mile cruise?

The 4 cyl above has full interior, stock tubs, stock seats, AC, heater, 25 mpg and traps 165 mph.... and runs on pump fuel.

I like rotaries.... but it's simple, a rotary couldn't do that.

Enzo you have done great things with the irs car and the 13b,I understand your reasons about family etc, mid to low 8 sec 13b should see 50 passes before being open. cant see a 6 sec 4 cyl being cheap to run:scratch:and it will chew up alot more time than your rotary.
good luck with the new project.
why dont you put a 20b in if the 13b not reliable enough for you?
brent

Why not? What's so different inside a stock rotary engine and a race rotary engine? Not very much. So the only difference would be the amount of boost and fuel system on the race rotary engine. So all you would have to do is have two different tune maps and you could even have two different fuel setups. One for pump fuel and one for race/methanol. The only thing the piston engine may have on this is better fuel economy. So why do you think a rotary can't do this? We have guys running 9's on IRS suspesion street cars with stock motors. And there are many other cars running 8's that are streetable. So again I ask why the hate?

Thats what i was thinking, turbotommy 20b car is the best example i know. hes running mid 9s at 20psi in a true street car. Hes been driving his car on the street for years and its still running. He drive his car to and from every event and i bet he probably have more seat time in his car than half the people here but hes running mid 9s. Amagine what enzo would be able to do with a 20b.

Since when is being realistic called being a hater?

You're living in a dream world if you think a rotary can compete against piston engines.

Thanks Brent..
my setup was more on par with a mid 7 sec setup just with small tires and stock "heavy" chassis. so engine life was alot shorter.. :) I'm sure If I would stop or limit my 2 steps and rev limiters I would get more engine life. :)

I have thought about 20b's alot and they really interest me. I would be able to make alot of power and keep it a bit more on the conservative side.. I like new challenges and I'm sure this will be a future one. :)

Aaron, I have also thought about stock chassis alot. I debated back and forth with DL on what do i do and the final verdict was based on the simple fact of where would I be racing and what gains do I get from running stock chassis/ NSCRA Hotrod etc. I felt running the stock chassis would be another year of the same as I did now and when I sat down and thought about it, it would be more beneficial to race in the Quick 32 classes, Pan Ams, etc. as there's alot more prize money to go after and be a part of the main show at events.
I would also like to travel to other big events and they cater to the pro cars mainly..

I will also try different tire combo's so I could enter domestic drag radial or 10.5" tire classes.

I realize I can't please everyone and not everyone will agree with my choices, but I have my reasons for making them and I thought about this alot and covered every angle and believe I'm making the best choice otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.

I realize racing in general is not cheap(piston or rotary) especially at the level I would like to run. I have alot of resources and friends in the piston world and can do alot with very little so It's not as bad as most would think.

So If I lost some of my supporters with my car I hope to at least have their support on my other shop car which will still run a 2 rotor.

25mpg on a 4 cil, on a +2800lbs chassis that traps 165MPH on pump gas?

Hmm, yeah, no :lol:

I highly dough you lost any supporters, I think we (or maybe just me) are just a bit sad because your car was highly anticipated<~~~~~ not sure if i used the correct word :)

You're kidding right? I beat v8 piston race cars all day long at my track with my little 12a...... no competition eh?? Rotary cars compete with piston cars all the time and do very well. Yes the fastest import car happens to be a piston engine right now, but the rotary is very very close and getting faster. We're talking hole shot wins now. Shoot, we are still using 90% stock factory parts. Let see a piston engine race with factory stock cylinder heads and blocks, rods and cranks and see how they do with the same displacement as a rotary. You can't compare a Top fuel piston engine to a rotary engine.

Mobeoner said it right. The rotary community is already very small, so we just hate to see another good rotary racer go south that's all.

Most forget that Titan is still running an import. They run 3.9's at 190+

Ofcourse I hate to see you move away from the rotary, however, I like that you talked a little shit last year and then backed it up in your first season. Same for your brother, I like the shit talking. That is what makes this interesting, we all still want to see the rotary prevail, but some shit talking along the way keeps more people interested.

Good luck in whatever route you take, Ive heard nothing but great things about your tuning and work ethic from others I think of highly.

Seriously, there are many stock cars that will run what your race car will.

The rotary isn't close to anything piston.

When a rotary can go on a 1,200 mile cruise, then go straight to the track and run 6.95 @ 209 mph............ get back to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwF-kr91uxU

Just from this quote "The rotary isn't close to anything piston", shows your intellect.

Like I said before you can't compare a 600 cubic inch twin turbo v8 engine vs a 1.3liter turbo rotary.

600ci twin turbo V8?? The sound of that is giving me a tingling feeling :lol2:

most people don't know that Enzo builds high performance Piston engines also.. He's not just a tuner. By messing with a piston engine, I'm sure the benifits to his business with far outweigh the sad feeling of not hearing that "brap"

all hail the piston engine.. That's where the money is :icon_tup:

wash your mouth out son , thats filthy talk around hear :nono:

I hear you Aaron but the sad truth is that this is part of the reason why the rotary is behind the times. People race them and then throw in the towel and go the "easy" route- piston.

"Hit the Nail on the head"

This thread is so full of fail. How do people compare apples to grapes. On top of that I cant believe some people are high members on this forum and down what its all about.

Jay, when you see a car like Paul Major's Vette in person, you might probably think twice about a Rotary :lol:

I know I did :ugh2:

:lol: :lol: