I want one. Not in the USA yet? Legally that is.

 

Chrikey, you guys don't know what your missing. there are loads of elise's in England. I live in a very small town but there are 3 here.

I actually got to have a quick go in an exige. much faster than the elise but didn't have the measuring equipment so I can't go quoting figures for that .

 

Hey but we have the autocross ready FORD Mustang 3.8L V6 and only weighs around 3100 LBS.

Are you ''JEALOUS" Yet but anyone can even get a used one with the uni-body bent because someone put it on a lift improperly.

An SVT would be nice if it didn't weigh so frigin much (3665LBS)

 

3100LBS !!!!!! far to heavy and don't those engines only put out around 200bhp ?

no wonder all you guys like the RICE burners you would think ford would be catching on by now.

you guys should look at a smart roadster. 698cc petrol: 60kW (82bhp) at 5,250rpm and 790kg. they sound like a little Porsche would be great for tuning and really stand out in your huge car land

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=74

 

Before you guys drown in your own drool, look at what a Lotus Elise is. Lotus Elise is the British Corvette. Everybody has a friend or friend’s friend that has a Lotus. It is a nice car, but does not turn heads over there. But a Corvette over there will the way a Lotus does here.

The Elise is only ~$30K. Power numbers are not astonishing in the street model (120-160hp). Performance is nice; go carts are always fun with powerful or even not so powerful engines.

Now these 1.47Gs:

Is that some kind of British conversion factor? Were you hitting a wall or on the brakes? Constant or instantaneous Gs? It is hard to believe that all of the cars below are with in ~5% of each other, but your Lotus is statistically so much better:

RX-7 0.98
Porsche 911 Carrera 0.92
Acura NSX-T 0.94
Lotus Turbo Esprit 0.98
Ferrari F355 0.93
Supra 0.94
Lotus Elise (Road and Track) 0.91
Stock Bike 1.2



KneeDragonR1

 

How wrong, I can tell you that when you drive down the road in an elise you get ALLOT of looks.

also this town has around 20 thousand people in it and ther are 2/3 elises here not exactly all over the place. i know quite a few people that have them but i am a motorsport type blokey most don't.

Power is only a small part of making a car go fast and has very little to do with handeling. much more important is chassis stifness. the elise is over 7000lbs per deg of twist higher than any other road car, and most rally cars. also lotus offer upto 190bhp as standard.

No, the figuers you quote are from round-about testing and is the constant speed that is held befor the car lets go when driving round&round. but some are wrong anyway.

the figure i quoted was from a track day and was a peek reading mid corner (not skiding).

i would like to know where you get that "stock bike 1.2" figure from. I have tested gsxr6's and 750 nijas, the best handeling road bikes and have only ever seen 0.96 max on a very good day. this is backed up by many sites and manfacturers figurers.

also this was not my lotus but a friends, my se7en replica will be much better

 

I figured. You were using instantaneous Gs while every else in the world uses continuous.

Don’t lie. The 190 hp Lotus you are referring to is not the street legal production model.

The ZX-7 is a relic. It a good sport touring bike, but it is relatively slow. Best handling? No.

I have seen many a Lotus in UK. No big deal. Maybe a person in a Saxo thinks they are exotic. However, they are the affordable sports car. Do you have a friend with one? Does you friend have a friend with one? Common car.

To figure the (continuous) Gs of a bike is pretty simple. Measure the lean angle of the bike and calculate. A 45 degree lean will equate to 1.0 Gs. At 56 degrees, (where a street bike touches the pegs to the ground) the bike is pulling 1.24 Gs. Street bikes, on street tires drag pegs, 1.24 Gs. It is only limited by clearance. Raise the pegs, get a few more 10ths.

KneeDragonR1

 

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP166.html

 

It was from a day at the track, simply used to illistrate a point that you can pull a hell of allot more lateral g in a car than you will evere on a bike.

Quote:

Don?t lie. The 190 hp Lotus you are referring to is not the street legal production model.

Its not a lie, the lotus Sport 190 is available to anyone, 190hp 0-60 in 4.3. Totally street legal and available straight from the factory..

Quote:

The ZX-7 is a relic. It a good sport touring bike, but it is relatively slow. Best handling? No.

And the GSXR6 ?? hardley a relic. I should not that the 0.96g seen from a GSXR6 was on a loverly day most road bike's would be lucky to see 0.8g

Quote:

I have seen many a Lotus in UK. No big deal. Maybe a person in a Saxo thinks they are exotic. However, they are the affordable sports car. Do you have a friend with one? Does you friend have a friend with one? Common car.

I live in the UK, they are simply not that common, they are an affordably sports car and are world renounded for their handeling. i have a friend with an ultima who has a friend with an ultima does that make them common as well ? dont be stupid.

Quote:

To figure the (continuous) Gs of a bike is pretty simple. Measure the lean angle of the bike and calculate. A 45 degree lean will equate to 1.0 Gs. At 56 degrees, (where a street bike touches the pegs to the ground) the bike is pulling 1.24 Gs. Street bikes, on street tires drag pegs, 1.24 Gs. It is only limited by clearance. Raise the pegs, get a few more 10ths.

KneeDragonR1

Thats just a estimate method not accurate. To work out lateral g's you must time the vehicle traveling round a circle of a specfic diameter usually 200ft or use an electronic g force meter.

what tyers would you be using as you move the bike lower and lower, even with modern multi composite tyers you would be on your ****. Race bikes are stup to lean at most 50 degrees and have tyers capable of handeling 1.3 lateral g a buffer since they dont reach it.

1.2g is about the max for a race bike en even then this is "instantaneous" as you put it and no where near what a race car can pull, start thinking 4 g's !!

I dont know why you are disagreeing with me. This is simple a bike has 2 small areas or tyre on the road to grip whilst a car has 4. The bike negligable downforce a high center of gravity due to a fat lump of weight on-top.

 

The only thing we have here in the states that can ever come close to the weight and handling of an Elise is the New Toyota MR2. Well balanced and a decent sized engine compartment for a turbo up-grade. Bang for the buck it would be very hard to beat. Prox. 2200 - 2300LBS I think. The only problem with this car is that it is BUTT UGLY. The engine with minor interior up-grades should handle around 300 - 325 RWHP from what I was told by a notable TRD rep.

The lotus Elise (I am sorry BUT) scrap the engine and put in a Rotary / Single turbo W/ proper side duckting for and air to air intercooler. I saw a Lotus Motor Sport Elise at the LA Auto Show that had a Jap spec Honda in it. I was told 300 RWHP. Very cool combo. He told me that he had already contacted Mazda for pricing on the new RX8 motor. This Car / combo won't be available in the states either.

I love the new Corvette by the way. Best buy for that price range. The only problem with it is that everyone has one.

 

The only thing we have here in the states that can ever come close to the weight and handling of an Elise is the New Toyota MR2. Well balanced and a decent sized engine compartment for a turbo up-grade. Bang for the buck it would be very hard to beat. Prox. 2200 - 2300LBS I think. The only problem with this car is that it is BUTT UGLY. The engine with minor interior up-grades should handle around 300 - 325 RWHP from what I was told by a notable TRD rep.

The lotus Elise (I am sorry BUT) scrap the engine and put in a Rotary / Single turbo W/ proper side duckting for and air to air intercooler. I saw a Lotus Motor Sport Elise at the LA Auto Show that had a Jap spec Honda in it. I was told 300 RWHP. Very cool combo. He told me that he had already contacted Mazda for pricing on the new RX8 motor. This Car / combo won't be available in the states either.

I love the new Corvette by the way. Best buy for that price range. The only problem with it is that everyone has one.

 

Shut your pie hole, crap is falling out!


1. “Fact: I have pulled 1.47lateral g in a lotus elise” I weigh 500lbs when I JUMP on the scale.
2. “Chassis stiffness is what makes a car fast, not power or handleing.” I always thought chassis stiffness contributed to handling. Apparently not. I'll just take power and handling then.
3. “there are loads of elise's in England” then later “ther are 2/3 elises here not exactly all over the place.” then “they are simply not that common”
4. “you get ALLOT of looks” This is not really a lie because it is an opinion. I just like the use of the word “ALLOT.”
5. “I have tested gsxr6's and 750 nijas, the best handeling road bikes” Did you test a Yugo too?
6. “the best handleing road bikes and have only ever seen 0.96 max” Just because you stop at <45 degrees, does not mean everyone else does.
7. “this is backed up by many sites and manfacturers figurers” Everything on the internet is true!
8. “you can pull a hell of allot more lateral g in a car than you will evere on a bike” 1.24 to the Lotus ~0.93 is one hell of a lot more, 25% more.
9. “lotus Sport 190 is available to anyone, 190hp 0-60 in 4.3. Totally street legal and available straight from the factory”
“ELISE SPORT 190 - THIS MODEL IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE NEW FROM FACTORY” http://www.lotuscars.co.uk
10. “most road bike's would be lucky to see 0.8g” ‘Lucky’ why because 0.8 is slow and safe.
11. “Thats just a estimate method not accurate” At 45 degrees, there is enough force to exactly equal gravity. Gravity = 1G
12. “To work out lateral g's you must time the vehicle traveling round a circle of a specfic diameter usually 200ft” I guess British cars only pull Gs in 200 foot circles.
13. “Race bikes are stup to lean at most 50 degrees” Odd? An R1 is 53 degrees from the dealer and a little more after you take off the feeler pegs.
14. “even with modern multi composite tyers you would be on your ****” Average off the shelf stock (non race) tires will drag pegs. You are on your **** because you are sitting.
15. “1.2g is about the max for a race bike” The guys dragging elbows have secret anti gravity suits.
16. “this is "instantaneous" Learn what instantaneous means. If the bike is stable, not falling or rising this IS continuous acceleration. Pitching a car around and using momentum to inflate numbers is not.
17. “I dont know why you are disagreeing with me.” 1. Know it all ignorant little ***** are annoying. 2. See above.



I do like how you realized I caught you spreading false info, so you bring up Formula 1. At least YOU know you don’t know what you are talking about and when to abort a lost cause.
Brilliant old chap.

KneeDragonR1

 

375rwhp isn't enough to keep up with a bike. Have you ever seen footage of what a stock r6 can do, I mean the rider has to have ***** of steel. I will try to post a video clip from mischiefs and see if you car accelerates like this.

 

HEY - Can't we all just get along.

LOL

 

i wonder what turbo busas pull in G's once they get some traction. Those things are disgusting and stupid, but hey I guess some people can't get enough speed.

 

ok i've been reading this thread because i used to own an R6, and I know that you'd need a pretty damn fast car to beat one (depending on top speed, I only ever got mine up to 250km/h that was hairy enough for me on a windy day).
I really think the guy on the bike would laugh. You'd probably spend more money that his bike is worth just to make your car faster that it plus his bike would still get over 30mpg and be more fun. Have any of you guys ridden bikes? I'm not much of a rider, but i've banked it over at 200km/h around a corner that i would've thought twice about in a car at the same speed. It's pretty similar at 50km-ish corners (my seven is a little ragged, the bike is solid as a rock). I don't know what g's they could pull, but i'd guess that the g's you could pull in a car at high speed would be reduced.

Mat.

 

you certainly know how that feels don't you. are you a politician or something. totally
misquoting me and twisting the facts.




this is totally irrelevant the car was not suddenly thrown, it was driven around a bend no
skids, no hitting walls.



Where did you get that from, I think you should read back it the thread. that might be to
complex for you so "Power is only a small part of making a car go fast and has very little to
do with handling. much more important is chassis stifness."

I am saying that power has little to do with handeling, chassis stifness IS much more important to handeling.

christ your thick.




There are quite a few elises in England, probably about the same as R1's but they are not a
common car, they are used for sunny weekends etc. they are simply not common.

<snip crap>



1.24 ??? is your brain leaking out of your ears ? It is allot , perhaps you should try it,



You really prove yourself an idiot here. yes it equates to 1g if held continuously on and
even flat road with no camber but how do you hold a bike at 45 degrees continuously ??? you
ride in a circle. genius. 200ft is the usual diameter since it allows for most vehicles to
de driven at maximum cornering force.


<snip more bollocks>



I think you should take a step back read what you are writing and think. continual lateral
acceleration is measured, as I said before, on a 200ft circle this is because it is continuous
usually 3 laps so at leas one is continues lean. im starting to wonder if you have ridden a
bike you start talking about momentum what do you think happens when the bike is ridden into a
tight corner on a track do you think this is anything other than an instantaneous reading.



You are the one spreading fale info.

I am annoying you because I am proving something that you say is false, I like the way you
totally twist everything around to make yourself sound clever. at the end of the day the
number of elises in the uk, the age of 750 ninjas, how many cars I have tested and how much
you weigh are all irrelevant to the fact that a car will corner faster than a bike.

face the facts and stop seeing this as a personally slight.

 

1.2 to about 1.3 is approximately the max on the best bikes. Lean angle and traction limited. The more you lean, the more g's, but you have to get traction to back that up. Most motorcycle street tires will support 1.1, you need racing compound to approach the 1.2 to 1.3 range.

 

Your seven needs some suspension work.

Seriously though...any gen seven should be capable of 1.0+ with the correct set up. If you are an average skill motorcycle rider, I doubt that you are leaning beyond 45°, which is 1.0 g.

I am not saying that either is better (car vs. bike). Each have their merits. For example, if an SUV hits your car at 20 mph, you are not instantly brain dead.

 

well to start off with i have raced street bikes proffesionally & have owned many of them .i been riding for many years now .i have also just recently 12\28\02 bought a 3rd gen ,these cars are very capable of eating a 600cc bike .if you are somewhere in the 550-600 rage of horse power you can take them in the 1\4 ,i know cause i've seen it done !and the R6 defently does not have 120hp ,it has 96.4@12,500rpm's.that will put it down the track in bout 11.23 seconds 123.2 mph.hell for that matter an R1 has only129.8hp@10,500rpm's and it is running an10.42@134.7mph.these times on hp are generated by a 150 rear wheel dynamometer and a Chrondek timing system @59degrees F. hell if you have a 3rd gen pushing some big hp's you can get into the 10's no problem .hey i love street bikes and will continue to get a rushing high while riding one but there are alot more things to consider other than hp!how bout aerodynamics? a street bike might as well be a bus when it comes to aerodynamics!

 

1. The BS Gs you were quoting included momentum. Then you tried to compare that to continuous. Continuous is achieved after the bike or car is in a static state of roll. You used inertia to inflate the numbers. Look up basic physics.
2. "Power is only a small part of making a car go fast and has very little to
do with handling. much more important is chassis stifness." Just a poorly written sentence.
3. ‘quite a few’ ‘not a lot’, ‘2 in my town.’ Make up your mind.
4. The words are “a lot” just like a little. Allot means to give or ration.
5. You concede
6. You concede
7. See above
8. 1.24G is not allot, but it is a lot. Until you have to take of the peg feelers and the raise the pegs for more clearance.
9. You concede
10. You concede
11. You concede. R=V2/(g tan L) V= velocity R= radius g= gravity L = Lean angle Where is 200ft is mandatory? Radius, velocity, lean are all linked. It’s odd the equation does not include the ‘it only works at 200ft’ rule. R is a variable. It could be 200ft or not.
12. Lean angle is proportional to camber. It does not need to be factored in.
13. You concede
14. You concede
15. You concede
16. That is one way to find lateral acceleration, not the only way
17. I’ll reiterate basic physics. Static roll angle = continuous Changing roll angle = instantaneous A bike with a static roll angle is producing continuous force.



“ a car will corner faster than a bike.”

My god you are finally right!, but only those cars that can go faster than a bike pulling +1.2Gs. That’s not the Elise you are referring to.


With so many points that you are unequivocally unable to defend, this is too easy for me.


KneeDragonR1

 

I would think that there are a ton of drag cars out there that are "faster than a bike pulling +1.2Gs", but cannot corner as well.



Relax...I'm just joining the fun.

 

You guys want to argue some more about this via the PM system so we can all read about the 600cc bikes versus RX7 and not you 2 argueing???

There are 2 local guys that I know with 600's here is how they do on the same track I run at

97 CBR600 F3 trap 117mph
99 Honda F4 trap 116mph
My 7 dynoed 412rwhp and traped 125 at the same track

based on my mph I think I'm making more power than 412 when on the street, especially with a smic that gets warmer on the dyno versus the street.

I think you could trap 117 easy with around 375 which is pushing the limit of a stock twins car totally modded out.

Not to say there arent better riders or faster 600cc bikes but you didnt ask about a spacific bike. These are 2 real world examples of you everyday real world person racing a bike at the track

STEPHEN

 

Not really, but thanks for offering! I prefer the forum to PM.

Your question - RX-7 vs. 600 (or even some 1000cc):
Run 11s in the 1/4 to beat the bike in a line.

Learn to drive well (not professional fast, but quick) in the twisties and you will beat most riders with a stock 7.


KneeDragonR1

 

Good data, if the acceleration curves were the same for a bike and car

i.e.: No such thing as inertia or aerodynamic drag.


KneeDragonR1