What the hell is doweling?!!
12-02-01 | 12:32 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 932
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From: Altadena, CA
What the hell is doweling?!!
I keep hearing about people who've had their motors 'doweled' -- what the heck is that?!
going nutz...
Manolis
PS -- attended my first So. Cal. RX-7 meeting today... killer
going nutz...
Manolis
PS -- attended my first So. Cal. RX-7 meeting today... killer
12-02-01 | 03:07 AM
#2
inteligent extratarestril
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,313
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From: The Sunny B.O.P, New Zealand
it's what you should do if you plan on making over 650rwhp, if not, go back to sleep and stop worrying, if you "need" dowels for under 650rwhp, its simply a band aid for poor tuning.
12-02-01 | 04:13 PM
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 593
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From: Louisville, KY
outrageous boost
I would say, hypothetically speaking, wouldn't you have to install extra dowels if you're going to boost an outrageous amount of PSI? I'm thinking along the lines of like 35+psi. Then, I was thinking, if you're boosting something that high, then you're probably pushing over 650rwhp anyway... Anyway, what PSI would you say extra doweling needs to be put in at?
12-02-01 | 04:30 PM
#4
10.32 @ 133
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,362
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From: Sydney, Australia
A dowel is like a big PIN that is threaded into your housing and stops flex between housings and centre/end plates.
Opinions vary on their use. Some people are pumping 700+ flywheel with undowelled engines, yet others with half that power have cracked plates. Causes of cracking plates are also varied and depend on who you sepak to. Leaning out in a MAJOR way, too much timing, too much boost...ask 10 people and you will get 10 different reasons and 10 different answers to 'should you dowel'.
I have my engine dowelled. More for piece of mind.
Opinions vary on their use. Some people are pumping 700+ flywheel with undowelled engines, yet others with half that power have cracked plates. Causes of cracking plates are also varied and depend on who you sepak to. Leaning out in a MAJOR way, too much timing, too much boost...ask 10 people and you will get 10 different reasons and 10 different answers to 'should you dowel'.
I have my engine dowelled. More for piece of mind.
12-02-01 | 05:04 PM
#5
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 466
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
On one hand you have people saying 13B's are good to 700+hp before dowelling enters into it as long as you don't detonate... others say that's true for FDs but FC's can handle less power, and have come apart at lower HP with good tuning... and pre-86 engines are weaker still. Looking at my 12A plates, there is much less beef than even an FC plate, and there looks to be very little metal for dowelling, it'd probably make things worse by weakening the metal. And then there is one guy blowing a ton of boost from a supercharger, with no intercooler, into a 6-port high compression engine, with minimal fuelling mods, and it holds together okay. (you know who you are 
)
)
12-02-01 | 07:46 PM
#6
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 147
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From: Vic, Australia
Here is a post by RICE RACING from several months ago that I have in my RICE RACING fact sheet on my computer.
In a 13B over 1000bhp...you will not crack the plate.
If detonation occurs you will break anything.
The BMEP can go to around 3 to 4.5Mpa all day, when you have detonation there is a spike in BMEP which can send the pressure in the chamber from the peak of about 20 to 26 Mpa to well over 80 to 100 Mpa !!!
This will break anything, seals/Dowels/rotors.
Correct fuel, right tunning and stay within normal operating conditions of the engine and you will never need to dowel your engine....
This is the hard data, no guesses, or opinions...I have run dowelled and run non dowled. I worked as a machinist and know how hard it is to make these things accuratley (it is near impossible!) half the extra ones you put in end up doing nothing because they take no load due to incorrect clearances and infact all you end up doing is weakining the endplates and rotor housings. I have seen these crack in the "extra" dowel area.
Repeat after me, there is no need for extra dowles...unless of course you like to waste money on mods you do not need. If this is the case then I can do that machining job for you
Drop me an email.
Regards.
If detonation occurs you will break anything.
The BMEP can go to around 3 to 4.5Mpa all day, when you have detonation there is a spike in BMEP which can send the pressure in the chamber from the peak of about 20 to 26 Mpa to well over 80 to 100 Mpa !!!
This will break anything, seals/Dowels/rotors.
Correct fuel, right tunning and stay within normal operating conditions of the engine and you will never need to dowel your engine....
This is the hard data, no guesses, or opinions...I have run dowelled and run non dowled. I worked as a machinist and know how hard it is to make these things accuratley (it is near impossible!) half the extra ones you put in end up doing nothing because they take no load due to incorrect clearances and infact all you end up doing is weakining the endplates and rotor housings. I have seen these crack in the "extra" dowel area.
Repeat after me, there is no need for extra dowles...unless of course you like to waste money on mods you do not need. If this is the case then I can do that machining job for you
Drop me an email.
Regards.
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12-03-01 | 06:58 PM
#8
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Vic, Australia
Originally posted by HWO
ah yip, that be it, Peter is a top bloke, if you ever want to know something about our belove'ed engines then he is the one to give you the honest answer as it is.
ah yip, that be it, Peter is a top bloke, if you ever want to know something about our belove'ed engines then he is the one to give you the honest answer as it is.
