So my motor is gone - convince me to stay rotary
11-17-07 | 05:41 AM
#51
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
How exactly would that be ruining a good car?
11-17-07 | 12:46 PM
#52
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Memphis
I really tormented myself over what to do once my engine was blown. It came down to all the things that nagged me about the rotary.
1. No torque. Low to mid-range, it's just not there.
2. 3k hesitation. I didn't enjoy the dip I got every once in a while. Definitely didn't enjoy the bucking.
3. Vacuum Tubes. The rats nest is a pain in the *** no matter what you do to it.
4. Transmission. The car really should've come with a 6 speed.
5. Parts. If something broke, I'd have to wait on the parts to come in, there's nothing readily available.
6. Repairs. Nobody near me really knew how to work on it. I don't have the space/time to learn everything I need to know so that I could work on it myself.
7. Coolant Seals. I was always worrying about them.
8. Apex Seals. I was always worrying about them.
9. Tuning. If the tuning isn't spot on, there are plenty of more problems that can crop up on you, many of which lead to a new engine.
10. Boost leaks. Not always easy to find.
11. Boost problems. There are so many and lots of them have the same symptoms. Can also lead to a new engine.
12. Heat. You could use the engine bay as a pottery kiln if you wanted to.
And then it also came down to all the things I hated about the V8.
1. It's huge.
2. It's American. Nothing against American products, but this is a Japanese car. No, not just a car, a legend. Just doesn't feel right putting that in there.
3. It's redneck. Dag gum bo, whatchew got in thur? Won of them thar camaro engines! YEEEOOOOP!
4. It has a deep exhaust note as opposed to a high pitched japanese sound. Not that I really enjoyed the sound of "God's Chainsaw", but still.
5. It'll attract just as much attention as the rotary, but probably more so from the domestic crowd.
6. I have to learn about conventional piston engines again.
7. Now when I'm at the gas station and someone asks me if it has a V8, I'll have to say yes.
8. It doesn't rev to 8200rpm. At the moment it doesn't, maybe some day it might.
But then I contrasted the two.
1. The V8 has a lot more horsepower in stock form than the rotary.
2. The V8 can make a lot more horsepower in a more reliable way.
3. Won't take much work to get it into the 400-500hp range while staying N/A.
4. Will be able to use 150hp shot of N2O to get it into the 600hp range.
5. Cheaper to work on.
6. Easier to work on.
7. Parts are a lot easier to find.
8. Weight distribution won't be off by much, if any at all.
9. Torque.
10. No Apex seals.
11. Will run for a lot longer than 100k miles before needing a rebuild.
12. Good gas mileage.
So it basically comes down to what you want to use the car for. I'm mainly doing it for the reliability and the power/cost ratio. I fully intend to get another FD some day and keep it in stock form, but until then, I'll have this. I understand the argument that what makes a rotary unique, is the rotary, but that's simply not the case here. The FD is unique for many other reasons, it's handling, it's looks, it's feel. The engine really is only one part of the whole and I love the whole of the car, not just the engine, so I wanted to keep it instead of getting something else.
1. No torque. Low to mid-range, it's just not there.
2. 3k hesitation. I didn't enjoy the dip I got every once in a while. Definitely didn't enjoy the bucking.
3. Vacuum Tubes. The rats nest is a pain in the *** no matter what you do to it.
4. Transmission. The car really should've come with a 6 speed.
5. Parts. If something broke, I'd have to wait on the parts to come in, there's nothing readily available.
6. Repairs. Nobody near me really knew how to work on it. I don't have the space/time to learn everything I need to know so that I could work on it myself.
7. Coolant Seals. I was always worrying about them.
8. Apex Seals. I was always worrying about them.
9. Tuning. If the tuning isn't spot on, there are plenty of more problems that can crop up on you, many of which lead to a new engine.
10. Boost leaks. Not always easy to find.
11. Boost problems. There are so many and lots of them have the same symptoms. Can also lead to a new engine.
12. Heat. You could use the engine bay as a pottery kiln if you wanted to.
And then it also came down to all the things I hated about the V8.
1. It's huge.
2. It's American. Nothing against American products, but this is a Japanese car. No, not just a car, a legend. Just doesn't feel right putting that in there.
3. It's redneck. Dag gum bo, whatchew got in thur? Won of them thar camaro engines! YEEEOOOOP!
4. It has a deep exhaust note as opposed to a high pitched japanese sound. Not that I really enjoyed the sound of "God's Chainsaw", but still.
5. It'll attract just as much attention as the rotary, but probably more so from the domestic crowd.
6. I have to learn about conventional piston engines again.
7. Now when I'm at the gas station and someone asks me if it has a V8, I'll have to say yes.
8. It doesn't rev to 8200rpm. At the moment it doesn't, maybe some day it might.
But then I contrasted the two.
1. The V8 has a lot more horsepower in stock form than the rotary.
2. The V8 can make a lot more horsepower in a more reliable way.
3. Won't take much work to get it into the 400-500hp range while staying N/A.
4. Will be able to use 150hp shot of N2O to get it into the 600hp range.
5. Cheaper to work on.
6. Easier to work on.
7. Parts are a lot easier to find.
8. Weight distribution won't be off by much, if any at all.
9. Torque.
10. No Apex seals.
11. Will run for a lot longer than 100k miles before needing a rebuild.
12. Good gas mileage.
So it basically comes down to what you want to use the car for. I'm mainly doing it for the reliability and the power/cost ratio. I fully intend to get another FD some day and keep it in stock form, but until then, I'll have this. I understand the argument that what makes a rotary unique, is the rotary, but that's simply not the case here. The FD is unique for many other reasons, it's handling, it's looks, it's feel. The engine really is only one part of the whole and I love the whole of the car, not just the engine, so I wanted to keep it instead of getting something else.
I'm gonna wait to make a decision until I drive my friends LS-1 swap for a day or so to see if I can deal with it.
11-17-07 | 01:20 PM
#53
1. No torque! yah, thats what everyone says 
2. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
3. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
4. 6 speed, you're kidding right?
5. I hear Ray Malloy at that Mazda Dealership can get it all, fast and cheap too!!
6. Lots of people here know how to work on them or if its just a motor rebuild you need, pull it, ship it, get it setup with NS and put it back in.
7. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
8. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
9. It's not rocket science, just get good information.
10. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
11. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
12. no pottery lessons today. Ceramic coat a few goodies, put in some air ducting for that shiny new radiator and a quality oil cooler probably wouldn't hurt. alum ast,
13. don't overboost and run lean.
Sounds like you want to run at the track allot, so simplifying it will remove most of what you complain about.
2. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
3. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
4. 6 speed, you're kidding right?
5. I hear Ray Malloy at that Mazda Dealership can get it all, fast and cheap too!!
6. Lots of people here know how to work on them or if its just a motor rebuild you need, pull it, ship it, get it setup with NS and put it back in.
7. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
8. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
9. It's not rocket science, just get good information.
10. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
11. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
12. no pottery lessons today. Ceramic coat a few goodies, put in some air ducting for that shiny new radiator and a quality oil cooler probably wouldn't hurt. alum ast,
13. don't overboost and run lean.
Sounds like you want to run at the track allot, so simplifying it will remove most of what you complain about.
11-17-07 | 03:04 PM
#54
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Memphis
1. No torque! yah, thats what everyone says
2. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
3. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
4. 6 speed, you're kidding right?
5. I hear Ray Malloy at that Mazda Dealership can get it all, fast and cheap too!!
6. Lots of people here know how to work on them or if its just a motor rebuild you need, pull it, ship it, get it setup with NS and put it back in.
7. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
8. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
9. It's not rocket science, just get good information.
10. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
11. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
12. no pottery lessons today. Ceramic coat a few goodies, put in some air ducting for that shiny new radiator and a quality oil cooler probably wouldn't hurt. alum ast,
13. don't overboost and run lean.
Sounds like you want to run at the track allot, so simplifying it will remove most of what you complain about.
2. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
3. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
4. 6 speed, you're kidding right?
5. I hear Ray Malloy at that Mazda Dealership can get it all, fast and cheap too!!
6. Lots of people here know how to work on them or if its just a motor rebuild you need, pull it, ship it, get it setup with NS and put it back in.
7. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
8. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
9. It's not rocket science, just get good information.
10. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
11. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
12. no pottery lessons today. Ceramic coat a few goodies, put in some air ducting for that shiny new radiator and a quality oil cooler probably wouldn't hurt. alum ast,
13. don't overboost and run lean.
Sounds like you want to run at the track allot, so simplifying it will remove most of what you complain about.
I don't have any problems with the turbos or the turbo control system. I think it's pretty simple once you learn it. I was planning on going gt35r but not for simplicity, for power.
I fully agree with putting a better transmission in it. 6 speed rocks for those in between turns on the track. Plus I can't stand getting locked out of 1st gear.
I agree, Ray Crow at Malloy Mazda is the man!! That guy has saved my butt on several occasions. However, that well is soon to dry up because Mazda is no longer going to make parts for our cars. Up until now they have still been manufacturing parts so we could get them from Ray. I'm afraid that it's going to be increasingly difficult to get parts in the coming years.
I can safely say that I've been almost **** retentive about my maintenance routine. The only thing that I fear that I overlooked was the OMP. I'm not sure that's what happened but it's just about the only thing I didn't replace.
11-17-07 | 03:33 PM
#56
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
1. No torque! yah, thats what everyone says
2. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
3. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
4. 6 speed, you're kidding right?
5. I hear Ray Malloy at that Mazda Dealership can get it all, fast and cheap too!!
6. Lots of people here know how to work on them or if its just a motor rebuild you need, pull it, ship it, get it setup with NS and put it back in.
7. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
8. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
9. It's not rocket science, just get good information.
10. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
11. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
12. no pottery lessons today. Ceramic coat a few goodies, put in some air ducting for that shiny new radiator and a quality oil cooler probably wouldn't hurt. alum ast,
13. don't overboost and run lean.
Sounds like you want to run at the track allot, so simplifying it will remove most of what you complain about.
2. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
3. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
4. 6 speed, you're kidding right?
5. I hear Ray Malloy at that Mazda Dealership can get it all, fast and cheap too!!
6. Lots of people here know how to work on them or if its just a motor rebuild you need, pull it, ship it, get it setup with NS and put it back in.
7. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
8. Proper Maintenance = less worry. dont be a woman
9. It's not rocket science, just get good information.
10. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
11. UH, get some BNR's and go Non Seq OR go single.
12. no pottery lessons today. Ceramic coat a few goodies, put in some air ducting for that shiny new radiator and a quality oil cooler probably wouldn't hurt. alum ast,
13. don't overboost and run lean.
Sounds like you want to run at the track allot, so simplifying it will remove most of what you complain about.
2. I don't want to spend $7k-$8k, make 400-500hp, but still have the rest of the problems.
3. Refer to #2.
4. Not kidding at all. Many people agree that it should've had a 6-speed.
5. Still takes a week or so to get parts from Ray, though he's definitely the cheapest.
6. In California, sure, but not around here.
7. Even with proper maintenance, they can still let go on you.
8. Refer to #7.
9. Tuning for a stock or near stock car isn't hard. Tuning a fully built single setup or even a fully built sequential system is.
10. You still get boost leaks, even with BNR's or other singles.
11. Refer to #10.
12. Never had a chance to run ceramic.
I went LS1. Greg's finishing up the car right now, we're just waiting on the radiator and fan, then we'll have to take it to an exhaust shop and we should be good to go after that. It's got a new cam, ls6 intake, and underdrive pulley. I'm shooting for 400 to the ground to start off with, but I'll probably make a smidge under that. With new heads, headers, and a small shot, I should be able to easily make 600hp.
11-17-07 | 03:41 PM
#57
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Memphis
1. They say it because it's true.
2. I don't want to spend $7k-$8k, make 400-500hp, but still have the rest of the problems.
3. Refer to #2.
4. Not kidding at all. Many people agree that it should've had a 6-speed.
5. Still takes a week or so to get parts from Ray, though he's definitely the cheapest.
6. In California, sure, but not around here.
7. Even with proper maintenance, they can still let go on you.
8. Refer to #7.
9. Tuning for a stock or near stock car isn't hard. Tuning a fully built single setup or even a fully built sequential system is.
10. You still get boost leaks, even with BNR's or other singles.
11. Refer to #10.
12. Never had a chance to run ceramic.
I went LS1. Greg's finishing up the car right now, we're just waiting on the radiator and fan, then we'll have to take it to an exhaust shop and we should be good to go after that. It's got a new cam, ls6 intake, and underdrive pulley. I'm shooting for 400 to the ground to start off with, but I'll probably make a smidge under that. With new heads, headers, and a small shot, I should be able to easily make 600hp.
2. I don't want to spend $7k-$8k, make 400-500hp, but still have the rest of the problems.
3. Refer to #2.
4. Not kidding at all. Many people agree that it should've had a 6-speed.
5. Still takes a week or so to get parts from Ray, though he's definitely the cheapest.
6. In California, sure, but not around here.
7. Even with proper maintenance, they can still let go on you.
8. Refer to #7.
9. Tuning for a stock or near stock car isn't hard. Tuning a fully built single setup or even a fully built sequential system is.
10. You still get boost leaks, even with BNR's or other singles.
11. Refer to #10.
12. Never had a chance to run ceramic.
I went LS1. Greg's finishing up the car right now, we're just waiting on the radiator and fan, then we'll have to take it to an exhaust shop and we should be good to go after that. It's got a new cam, ls6 intake, and underdrive pulley. I'm shooting for 400 to the ground to start off with, but I'll probably make a smidge under that. With new heads, headers, and a small shot, I should be able to easily make 600hp.
Sounds like we think alike.
11-17-07 | 09:59 PM
#60
Why do people buy a car then complain that it lacks this or doesn't have enough of that or if I sink 13G it will be easy to take care of.Maybe you should know what your buying first. That way you will love it from the start.
11-17-07 | 10:13 PM
#61
Rotary Freak
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 0
From: Carmel, NY
Yeah, why buy an RX-7 if you dont want it????? Hell, why do we get such a hard time? Stress the hell out of any engine and have a variable ify and what happens? IT BLOWS UP JUST THE SAME!!!!
So piston engines endure a bit more detonation than we do, gimme the same amount of cash for r & d and I'll beat you...yes its that simple!
LOL
So piston engines endure a bit more detonation than we do, gimme the same amount of cash for r & d and I'll beat you...yes its that simple!
LOL
11-17-07 | 10:27 PM
#62
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 540
Likes: 1
From: STOCKTON, CA / VENTURA, CA
Ok so I bought the car in October of 06, the previous owner tells me that the motor was rebuilt 5000 miles ago ( I know I know) and I built the hell out of the car, rebuilt the sequential setup (it was non-seq), put new turbos, fuel system, PFC tuned by Steve Kan, etc etc.
I had it tuned in February and so begins the racing season in the midsouth. It survived the season, for the most part, and did pretty well for me. On the first day of a 2 day autocross event, the last of the season, I chipped an apex seal. The car still ran great at the top end but idled like crap and had no low end power, not like it had much to begin with. Did the compression test and the front rotor has a chipped apex seal, the turbos were unaffected as they still show the same boost pattern at the same rpm and don't have any problems.
The point of this thread is that unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm gonna put an LS1 swap in it. I really had my heart set on a ported motor from Gotham but now I'm wondering if even that would hold up to the racing that I put that car through. I've got about 8 - 9k in aftermarket parts under the hood so the swap would be an excercise in breakeven accounting after I sell my rotary stuff. The ported motor with all the options would be 4k. In order to stay rotary, I would have to fork over 4k plus have a motor that nobody can guarantee will get me through any more than 2 seasons (I drag race, road race and autocross).
Just contemplating it I feel like I'm ripping the soul out of my car but it just makes economic sense in the long run to put the ls-1 in it. In the short run I'll have more power with the rotary but in the long run I'll probably make more power more reliably with the v8.
I'm asking you to convince me to keep a 13B in the car.
Here come the flames... I'll go put on my Nomex right now!
Thanks in advance,
Jeremy
I had it tuned in February and so begins the racing season in the midsouth. It survived the season, for the most part, and did pretty well for me. On the first day of a 2 day autocross event, the last of the season, I chipped an apex seal. The car still ran great at the top end but idled like crap and had no low end power, not like it had much to begin with. Did the compression test and the front rotor has a chipped apex seal, the turbos were unaffected as they still show the same boost pattern at the same rpm and don't have any problems.
The point of this thread is that unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm gonna put an LS1 swap in it. I really had my heart set on a ported motor from Gotham but now I'm wondering if even that would hold up to the racing that I put that car through. I've got about 8 - 9k in aftermarket parts under the hood so the swap would be an excercise in breakeven accounting after I sell my rotary stuff. The ported motor with all the options would be 4k. In order to stay rotary, I would have to fork over 4k plus have a motor that nobody can guarantee will get me through any more than 2 seasons (I drag race, road race and autocross).
Just contemplating it I feel like I'm ripping the soul out of my car but it just makes economic sense in the long run to put the ls-1 in it. In the short run I'll have more power with the rotary but in the long run I'll probably make more power more reliably with the v8.
I'm asking you to convince me to keep a 13B in the car.
Here come the flames... I'll go put on my Nomex right now!
Thanks in advance,
Jeremy
i feel your pain cause i got my car and it had a reman motor in it with 5k on it then i drove it for 1k and all highway miles. then started smelling that sweet smell from the exhaust. then when i pulled the manifold off coolant came out. car was bought from fritz flynn.
11-17-07 | 10:48 PM
#65
A pineapple pressure tester goes a long way when installing a motor or buying a car with a relatively new motor.
11-17-07 | 11:45 PM
#66
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,576
Likes: 26
From: Morristown, TN (east of Knoxville)
...yes, because people commonly remove the water pump housing and associated parts from the front of the engine in order to install said PR pressure tester when checking a car out for a potential purpose. It's right there in the tool bag beside the compression tester. </sarcasm>
This thread makes baby Jesus cry...
This thread makes baby Jesus cry...
11-18-07 | 12:06 AM
#67
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
From: El Paso
Lol
I believe it is the other way around, keep it real keep it reliable, MAKE IT piston powered.
Really, I've had both, and I am already buying ls1 parts. Got the heads, getting the shortblock soon, then it goes to Hinson cause I gotta pay to play, LOL.
Really, I've had both, and I am already buying ls1 parts. Got the heads, getting the shortblock soon, then it goes to Hinson cause I gotta pay to play, LOL.
11-18-07 | 12:08 AM
#68
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
Yeah, why buy an RX-7 if you dont want it????? Hell, why do we get such a hard time? Stress the hell out of any engine and have a variable ify and what happens? IT BLOWS UP JUST THE SAME!!!!
So piston engines endure a bit more detonation than we do, gimme the same amount of cash for r & d and I'll beat you...yes its that simple!
LOL
So piston engines endure a bit more detonation than we do, gimme the same amount of cash for r & d and I'll beat you...yes its that simple!
LOL
11-18-07 | 12:19 AM
#69
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 3
From: Ann Arbor, Dirty Glove
Do what you want. You know what you want.... quit looking for approval or justification. Don't worry about people hating on your decision. Who the hell are they? Do what makes you happy for crying out loud!
I'm also looking into the other company, the one that sells Jimlab;s subframe. Just don't hold your breath...hehe.
11-18-07 | 01:21 AM
#73
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
11-18-07 | 01:25 AM
#74
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 3
From: Ann Arbor, Dirty Glove
No disrespect to Capt. Kirk, but not everybody can afford a rebuild or has the knowledge. So.........let the kiddies get a heavy LSX. I know it cramps your style, but hey; at least you won't get as many dumbass pnone calls.
BTW... I'll probably be looking you up next year!
BTW... I'll probably be looking you up next year!