nickl

I'm sorry, but I had to do it. Another apex seal thread.

Let me start this off by saying that I've done a lot of reading online, maybe too much. I think it might be a nice idea to create a new thread where hopefully we can gather some fresh information on apex seals.

I'm currently rebuilding my 13B from my 2002 FD3S, and I am simply stuck on choosing apex seals. First of all, my preference would be to go OEM, but since I want to make 400+ on the wheels, and I will be tuning it myself, I just don't want to take the risk of accidentally detonating, and ruining a housing, rotor and turbo. So my choice is to go aftermarket.

Now, when it comes to apex seals, it does seem like there is a trade-off between apex seal 'toughness' and housing wear. I would like to prolong the life of my housings as much as possible, I'm not building a drag/race car, I want a fast car for driving on the street. My ideal apex seal is tough, but also gentle on the housings.

This is is currently what I know:

- Goopy seals are sold basically everywhere, and being used in stock/modified builds, but I can't find any information / data on their website, and I sent them an email asking them for more information, but they simply replied 'check website'. I don't really care that these apex seals are used in racing cars, I want a good seal that can last me many years.

- RX Parts Apex Seals, these are basically praised by IR performance, being a high performance seal, but also gentle on the housings, I have no reason to believe they're lying, it's just that I don't hear a lot of other people talking about these seals

- RA seals, a lot of mixed stories, superseals eat housings it seems, and would probably not be my choice.

- Atkins seals, a lot of mixed stories, not sure who to believe.

- E&J Seals, I hear a lot about these seals, luck7racing claims they are gentle on the housings, DNA garage seems to use these for stock/modified builds? I keep seeing E&J more often.

If anyone has any input on this, or would like to share experiences, it would be greatly appreciated.

- Nick

13btnos

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you've already done the homework but I've used most of the seals you've mentioned. Goopy and RA seem to be harder on the housings. The E&J and Atkins seem to be easier on the housings but the Atkins don't seem to hold up as well to detonation but don't do as much damage as a OEM. Never used the RXparts seals and here's another one to throw in the mix https://power-seals.com/ my friend runs these but it's a drag only car and they hold up to abuse and don't wear the housings. Not sure on a street car but they claim to not damage the housings. I'll be running the power seals on the recommendation of my friend but again my car is just a track car. If using the apex seals that are harder on the housings use more premix seems to help lessen the damage. On RA seals I add 2.5oz per gal but again this is on a race car that sees 25psi and up boost. Good luck.

strokercharged95gt

I can only speak from my experience, but I originally had Atkins Seals and ran them for a few years until I had a huge knock event at like 20 psi and WOT (250 count!). The result was a chipped seal right where the main piece meets the triangle. I do not fault Atkins for this the detonation had nothing to do with the seal. I either think it was related to oil contamination in the intake related to a precision turbo leaking oil or too hot of a plug as A/F and timing were safe

Because I am trying to push/pushing beyond 500 whp and don't daily drive this car (more of a hobby) I ended up going with RA Super Seals. I really don't care if these seals eat my housings in 15k miles because that like 5-7 years of driving for me. I decided i'd rather have the best chance of surviving a knock event than longevity of the housings, etc (they are junkyard housings anyway). I have been running upwards of 22-27 psi on the RA Super Seals for about 2 years now with no issues. FYI I run about 1-1.5 oz of techniplate per gallon on E50-E60.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

im using goopy, but recently have met the owner of rxparts. Very stand-up guy, easy to contact, and extremely knowledgeable. I dont think you would go wrong with either.

T&B rotary

Sorry to bump an old thread but ive been in the market for seal for awhile! That being said im about to pull the trigger on rxparts did you end up using them by chance?

nickl

They're on my desk right now and going in the engine which is currently being assembled. Only steps I have left to do is clearancing the side seals, and then it's just assembly. So unfortunately I have no feedback yet

RGHTBrainDesign

No one said PTS yet, huh?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

those were so last week!

dguy

iTrader: (8)

Maybe its just me but if a business that sells product can't keep a website functional with at least a splash screen of a contact number of themselves or a dealer, I'm reluctant to give them business :P I could be full of **** though, The only seals I use other than OEM tend to be ceramics/Ianetti's.

EDIT: This was in reference to PTS seals. Somehow I didn't quote Ryan.

T&B rotary

Well thank you for your feedback im gonna give them a go as well I've seen some other guys running them from some years ago haven't found anything negative about them yet.

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-p...seals-1097504/
This was my main turn on as far as aftermarket seals, havent seen other people post photos of the affects of there seals on housings just hearsay. Seems pretty stand up to me. not that i dont trust oem but I'm not going to be running a stock setup and don't want to risk completely trashing my housings in the case of some random event that may cause oem seals to detonate.

Clubuser

Recently dropped a rebuilt S5 w/OEM seals in my '87 TII. Why OEM seals? Didn't want to risk the housings getting clawed the way GOOPY seals did to the S4's. Granted I pushed too hard at times likely leaning sending temps thru the roof. One day pushed it really hard and that was it. The heat flattened the 3mm springs and lost compression. When I rebuild the S4 w/the GOOPYs, I had to run a file on an area and was blown away how easy the file cut thru. Not w/the OEMs! But I used them anyway against my instincts.

btw, ran OEM 3mm prior to the GOOPYs. Detonated several times with 1 time boost shooting to 18 psi from the wastegate hose popping off. I could have reused them but woudn't fit 2mm slots! Housings were just fine.

Maybe GOOPYs or any other "soft" seal are fine if engine never sees extremes (leaning, temps, lack of lubrication) , but I wasn't going to chance it.

I wanted OEM on the S5 and found a great deal otherwise I'd gone w/Atkins. I'm only pushing ~ 300whp.

WJM ROTARIES

I dont know why you all in us dont use PTS apex and corner seals. I have been building engines for 35+ years for race cars and road cars fron mild to wilde. I have tried so many different seals and found they all break sooner or later chip or distort all except for PTS .I have been using them for 15+ years and have found then gentle on housings bed in quickly and dont break . I uas them on all my rebuilds wouldnt use any thing else.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

Again, literally zero/outdated/incorrect presence to give any sort of faith to customers other than random dudes saying "I dont know why you don't use PTS they're magical". I don't look for marketing **** when I pick a product but I do need some sort of solid foundation to base an opinion on.

RGHTBrainDesign

I'm going to end up using RXParts Seals whenever I go Semi-PP. No idea on Corner Seals though. Proven on some of the fastest streetcars in the US.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Not to add more to the already huge list, but Ianetti is now making metal seals:

https://i-rotary.com/

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I settled on stock Mazda 3mm apex seals as a good balance of wear, sealing and strength may years ago after trying varoius aftermarket seals with poor results (gauling or strength issues).

The new Ianetti seals look very interesting as far as 2mm seals go, hard to beat the companies reputation with the ceramics.

Clubuser

re the 3mm absolutely 100% agree. Want to push the engine to stratosphere? Hard to beat the 3mm's for reliability and housing kindness. I have flattened the apex springs twice from extreme heat, leaning, detonation without a hint of stress to both the seals and housings. Several corner seals did disintegrate with no trace of the rubber inserts left behind.

reddozen

We're putting the Ianetti iRotary seals in my 20b.

j_tso

iTrader: (2)

The i-Rotary seals looks interesting.

I wonder why the different branding when everyone knows the name Ianetti already. or maybe Ianetti stuff has been branded i-Rotary for a long time and I'm just behind.
Although no names are given on the site, people who have tested them are mentioned in the history, so I guess that can be cross checked.

Ceramic seals share the same part number, but with "-ST" added at the end, 0000-01-9113-ST. They're only a few dollars more per seal than OEM steel.
2 to 2.5 oz per gallon premix seems like a lot, but I guess these are for big power engines.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

I'd venture to guess it's to avoid diluting Ianetti's brand with regards to their ceramics.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

At the recommendation of Daryl Drummond I bought a 2-rotor set from Mazmart at an introductory price about 1.5 years ago, but my turbo project fell through. They weren’t actually talking much about who/what/where then. PM me if you’re interested.

RGHTBrainDesign

I see this as another Mild Steel that's incredibly porous. I'd rather go with a sealed/treated seal that requires 1/5th the oiling (streetable) and a lower coefficient of friction.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

Could be, I have a roundabout in at Ianetti and have been meaning to ask.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

What would be examples of such treated seals?

I'm told that the high premix prescribed for the Ianetti seals is for a racecar w/ no OMP, and that 1oz/gallon with an OMP is good for the street. Have others had different experience?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

In that case you may be due for an eye exam.

Decided to hold onto my set for future use. Glad I got in on the super low introductory price ...

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