andericus mack

I read about it here and somewhere else.I asked
a guy who knows alot about going fast and he said
he heard about it-'try it'. I got 5gal from sherwin w.
@$40. I added 1 gal to 7gal 92octane. Plan was to
run 17-18psi, but stupid me I had profec b high
setting too high. I hit 1.7 bar- twice! The car pulled
like crazy and sounded great. I drove around for
awhile to reassure myself all was ok. I would never
recommend this, but I really think I will use this
instead of race gas.Plan is to mix 2gal to 5or6 gal
92 octane for high boost
I did several runs with 17-18 psi and it ran great.

andericus mack

Also, tolulene is pretty corrosive in concentrated amounts, so I am testing a 25% mix on several
items- fuel hose, metal items, and vacuum hose.
I'm sure the vac hose won't fare well, I hope the
fuel hose does- I'.ll post results.

surfpac

I disagree with that. It is corrosive, but rather carcinogenic, like Xylene, or even gasoline. Don't breathe that stuff. Methanol, ethanol and those other alcohols are corrosive.
I've used xylene mixed with 93 premium many times in my SR powered 240SX with no adverse effects. Car ran really really sweet when boosting. The ratios I used gave me a ending mix of 102 octane.
Octane rating....xylene 117
" toluene 114

I have a spreadsheet that calculates the ending octane mixture based on how many gallons of xylene, or toluene, and premium gas. Also calculates the resulting cost per gallon. Send me a PM if you want the spreadsheet.

KevinK2

at those concentrations, add extra 2-stroke oil to mix. gasoline contains some lubricants.

SNracing

did you get better gas mileage w/ that high octane?

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

I run 1 Gal of toluene with every 10 gal fill up. (+ 4oz of MMO). I just refilled with a supply of xylene from sherwin williams, as the toulene was too expensive this time around.

In any event, for those of you worried, that toluene is some how bad for your fuel system. TOLUENE=GAS. It is in every tank already. It is a high denisty fuel.

The only real caveat is this.

You should not use more than a 30% mixture. and a lubricant is recommended if you go higher than a 10% mixture.

andericus mack

I don't even look at mpg- don't want to get depressed.
I do get great mpg on highway 26mpg only because
the haltech goes very lean in closed loop.

Piranha

It has been documented that rotaries lose power/mileage as octane goes up. Octane doesn't work for rotaries as it does pistons. I don't have the link, I read it a few years ago. But higher octane is necessary for high boost.

Evil Aviator

I'm not sure it's a good idea to burn paint thinner in your engine. Does the container list the impurity level? I would imagine that it's not very pure, and could possibly coat your engine internals with varnish or other compounds.

That's for pump gas. Toulene is an aromatic, and has a higher energy content by volume than pump gas.

Octane Rating = Anti-knock properties
Energy Content = Power per volume or weight

Kenku

Yeah, except for forced induction rotaries, which need it for the same reason forced induction boingers do.

And sure, Toluene is carcinogenic, but on about the same scale as gasoline, really. I did a fair bit of research on that last point about half a year ago because of getting into an argument about it...

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6479

andericus mack

I took out the test items today. Soaked in 25%
tolulene. The painted screw still had paint. The
fuel line was perfect. The stainless nail perfect.
I expected the vac hose to be a decomposed
jelly but was all intact and had no apparent
damage.

DaedelGT

silicon shouldn't be hit too hard by it anyway. Try it with a styrene

Evil Aviator

OK, I read all 7 pages of that link, but I still didn't see the listing for the impurity level of a can of Sherwin Williams toulene. What am I missing here?

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

Evil Aviator,

On the Toulene I use, I actually called the manufactor to check content. I am no chemist but I think Toulene is...well...100% Toulene.

Also, on the thread I referenced. There is a guy they call DOC. Read his posts carefully. He is a petroleum engineer with shell oil. I spoke with him in depth about the different stuff they put in to those cans you get at sherwin williams. Apparently, not an issue.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i think hes asking how much dirt/rust/wierd crap is at the bottom of the can

Evil Aviator

No, the junk in the bottom of the can would be extracted by the car's fuel filter. My question is what kind of chemical impurities (praffins, cyclo-paraffins, olefins, sulphur, etc.) are present in a can of Sherwin Williams toulene that is intended for your paintbrush, not for consumption in your engine. I don't need a chemical engineer from a petroleum company to tell me that toulene is used as a fuel, I need a chemical engineer for Sherwin Williams to tell me if their painting product is safe for extended use in an internal combustion engine.

I am not aware of any 100% pure natural sources of toulene, so is it made by extracting it from ethylbenzene or styrene, or is it a byproduct of the petroleum cracking process, or what? There has to be some type of impurities in it.

OK, you called the manufacturer, so what did they say? You don't need to be a chemist if they gave you a straight answer, lol. I have trouble believing that anything on this planet is 100% pure.

andericus mack

The guys at my Sherwin W. said a guy has been
running it [tolulene] for years and swears by it.
He buys it by the drum. I think they said it was
an old drag raced dodge. Besides, I bet regular
pump gas has more crap in it than this stuff. It
is clear as water.

Evil Aviator

I talked to the guy at my local gas station, and he says that some guy has been running it [gasoline] for years and swears by it. I think it's 100% gasoline and has no impurities because the label says "Unleaded".

Water is also as clear as water, but I wouldn't recommend putting it in your gas tank, lol.

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

Well, first off, I would not even began to debate you on something like this Evil. As I mentioned earlier, I am not an engineer or a chemist, and from reading many of your posts, I know you are no dummy.

Here is what I do know. The Xylene that I got from the paint store had only one other ingredient listed, ethylbenzene. I asked Doc about this chemical, and he stated that it would not harm the car in any way. That it was very hard to extract all the ethylbenzene from the mixture so trace amounts would be in there.

As far as my call to the company that sold the Toluene. The guy on the phone explained that there was nothing added to it. It was just Toluene. So if there is nothing added, I am assuming that the only impurities in the mixture are those associated with the manufacturing process, and not superfluous ingredients added for painters. However, I do not know what the manufacturing process is.

If you are skeptical, as I gather you are , I would continue to reasearch the matter. The gains are worth it in my opinion. For me the tradeoff is this, I can only get 91 octane in So Cal. I run a single turbo, at 16PSI, and am truly afraid of the dreaded pop. So, I add one gallon of 117 Octane to 10 Gals of shitty 91 octane. I get 93.5 octane, and I feel safer when I put my foot to the floor.

andericus mack

Response to Evil Aviator................



Good point. Tell you what, I'll be the guinea pig on this.
I'll keep everyone posted.If you don't hear anything,
then the benzene rings may have caused me to
mutate, transforming me into Ralph Nader and my
car into an AMC Pacer.

Evil Aviator

1) There isn't actually a debate, but rather a question. The question is what are the impurities and in what concentration do they exist? I guess the question could be simplified to asking if the toulene paint product meets the same standards as pump gas.
2) LOL, moderators are computer geeks, not chemists.

Kenku

Toluene's another hydrocarbon that comes out of oil; most of it (95%ish) comes from catalyticially reforming the stuff. Most of the rest is a byproduct of cracking the petroleum, and only around 1% is from styrene.

The purity in the paint cans should be pretty good; the toluene for paint thinner is likely from the same batch that's ending up blended into pump gas, as pump gas is where most of it goes and it doesn't make sense to set up seperate refineries... Also, I seem to recall toluene and the other aromatics having different enough properties from the parafins and whatnot that seperation should be a pretty trivial task for anyone producing it.


... not a chemist either, but I latched onto hydrocarbons as a way to make myself pass chemistry freshman year, so I did absorb a bit...

rallimike

iTrader: (1)

Don't know about the chemistry, but I've been using it for about a year with no problems.

Hamburgler

My buddy just broke his engine pretty bad using toulene at only 15 psi. Broke two seals and put two dents on his rotor, ruined the housing.

Not sure what the other factors were though.