Pics of BLUE TII's engine build- new type of primary port
12-16-05, 07:33 PM
#27
Jesus is the Messiah
This is facinating. Thank you very much for sharing 
I rate this thread "Five strange off-white blocks"
I rate this thread "Five strange off-white blocks"
Last edited by Tofuball; 12-16-05 at 07:46 PM.
12-19-05, 02:18 AM
#31
Wow, its nice to see the pics of everything you have been describing!! It looks very nice, very well thought!! What size turbo compressor? Is it a stock compressor? Now on the porting, I know everyone has been asking about it, but you have designed it to pull air from the secondary to increase its velocity at lower rpms correct? Which will make the engine much more efficient sooner? Now what happens at high rpm? Would this effect cause turbulence and/ or interference? Making the engine less efficient at high rpms? Once you get this thing broke in I really want to see a dyno, and see where the torque peak is at, it has to be sweet!!
12-19-05, 12:42 PM
#32
I cant say i have ever seen porting like that before, are you in the process of breakin it in?
It is broken in now. I race clearanced, so I gave it a gentle 500 miles, 200 miles of harder lower rpm and now I am awaiting dyno tune.
I am now up to 12psi boost and it feels pretty close to what the last motor did at 17psi- though it has been way too long since I drove that one to make a decent comparison.
That's very good work. It looks like you were busy for awhile!
That is a very nice compliment coming from you! Myself and many others here have been greatly influenced by the level of finish on your work. My set up has been the same for 3 years, but this is the 1st time it has been my motor. It did take some time
Is it a stock compressor?
60-1 Hi Fi compressor.
Now on the porting, I know everyone has been asking about it, but you have designed it to pull air from the secondary to increase its velocity at lower rpms correct?
Exactly! I was hoping having the 2ndaries flowing into a low pressure area would get them up to velocity faster.
Now what happens at high rpm?
I have been surprised that I had to add fuel over 4,000rpm as it leaned out to 12:1 in places, whereas the Pineapple had been tuned to 11:1 at the leanest. Though, This is at 12psi and so isn't the same as the other motor at 17psi. The maps were linearlized, but still who knows what AFR the other motor would have had at 12psi.
Unfortunately, the motor is dropping hard ~7,500rpm. I have to look over the maps and such to see if I am just going stupid rich or what. I had this same problem with the Pineapples and just found my 720cc and 1600cc injectors were locking open 100% duty cycle.
It is broken in now. I race clearanced, so I gave it a gentle 500 miles, 200 miles of harder lower rpm and now I am awaiting dyno tune.
I am now up to 12psi boost and it feels pretty close to what the last motor did at 17psi- though it has been way too long since I drove that one to make a decent comparison.
That's very good work. It looks like you were busy for awhile!
That is a very nice compliment coming from you! Myself and many others here have been greatly influenced by the level of finish on your work. My set up has been the same for 3 years, but this is the 1st time it has been my motor. It did take some time
Is it a stock compressor?
60-1 Hi Fi compressor.
Now on the porting, I know everyone has been asking about it, but you have designed it to pull air from the secondary to increase its velocity at lower rpms correct?
Exactly! I was hoping having the 2ndaries flowing into a low pressure area would get them up to velocity faster.
Now what happens at high rpm?
I have been surprised that I had to add fuel over 4,000rpm as it leaned out to 12:1 in places, whereas the Pineapple had been tuned to 11:1 at the leanest. Though, This is at 12psi and so isn't the same as the other motor at 17psi. The maps were linearlized, but still who knows what AFR the other motor would have had at 12psi.
Unfortunately, the motor is dropping hard ~7,500rpm. I have to look over the maps and such to see if I am just going stupid rich or what. I had this same problem with the Pineapples and just found my 720cc and 1600cc injectors were locking open 100% duty cycle.
05-30-06, 07:31 PM
#34
Red Pill Dealer
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Me too!
05-30-06, 09:58 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by GtoRx7
Any updates, dynos, ect? I havent heard or seen you post for a while!
05-31-06, 02:57 PM
#36
Yep, car is totaled. Don't know yet if it will be fixed or if the bits will go into another FC.
I will finish off the Auto-X season in it anyways since unibody is straight.
This engine build pictured only lasted untill the 1st time I ran it through 5th gear and then the 2mm Atkins seals cracked and then let go bad the next time I hit the rev limiter.
I put it back together exactly the same but with RA 3mm seals and that is how it is running now.
Unfortunaltely, the 2mm seals broke so badly the apex seal spring took out my turbo. I had that rebuilt, but the "P" trim exhaust wheel was not clipped.
The unclipped wheel is choking the engine out due to the exhaust backpressure and ports high overlap. It has no power untill the wastegate cracks open and then it is back to its normal self. Spool is worse than with 15 degree clip.
Now if I remove the wastegate line (wastegate stuck shut) it does not even build full boost. With the wastegate working it starts 3-4 psi boost creep at 6,000 rpm.
I will get the exhaust wheel clipped again, I am just too busy driving it to body shops and racing it.
I will finish off the Auto-X season in it anyways since unibody is straight.
This engine build pictured only lasted untill the 1st time I ran it through 5th gear and then the 2mm Atkins seals cracked and then let go bad the next time I hit the rev limiter.
I put it back together exactly the same but with RA 3mm seals and that is how it is running now.
Unfortunaltely, the 2mm seals broke so badly the apex seal spring took out my turbo. I had that rebuilt, but the "P" trim exhaust wheel was not clipped.
The unclipped wheel is choking the engine out due to the exhaust backpressure and ports high overlap. It has no power untill the wastegate cracks open and then it is back to its normal self. Spool is worse than with 15 degree clip.
Now if I remove the wastegate line (wastegate stuck shut) it does not even build full boost. With the wastegate working it starts 3-4 psi boost creep at 6,000 rpm.
I will get the exhaust wheel clipped again, I am just too busy driving it to body shops and racing it
.
05-31-06, 07:47 PM
#38
Just a little hybrid
The car can't handle a real turbo.
More power without a widebody or running race tires on the street? With the pictured engine build it didn't have traction in 1st-3rd and sideways at the top of 4th. I had to start my high speed runs in 5th to stay in my lane.
It is kind of sluggish now in comparison, but I think the clip will bring back most of the power (maybe 40RWHP lost from 3mm seals?) Or perhaps it will just stay streetable
The car can't handle a real turbo.
More power without a widebody or running race tires on the street? With the pictured engine build it didn't have traction in 1st-3rd and sideways at the top of 4th. I had to start my high speed runs in 5th to stay in my lane.
It is kind of sluggish now in comparison, but I think the clip will bring back most of the power (maybe 40RWHP lost from 3mm seals?) Or perhaps it will just stay streetable
05-31-06, 07:52 PM
#39
Unfortunately, the motor is dropping hard ~7,500rpm. I have to look over the maps and such to see if I am just going stupid rich or what. I had this same problem with the Pineapples and just found my 720cc and 1600cc injectors were locking open 100% duty cycle.
I was able to fix this. It was location of MAP sensor line. It had been off the 3rd gen UIM primary right by the flange and was seeing big boost fluctuations from the dynamic pulses of the intake. Moved it to near the TB for a steady signal and it pulled clean and hard to 8,500 rpm.
On teardown the outsides of the bearings were shiny so I am now only going to 8,000 rpm.
I was able to fix this. It was location of MAP sensor line. It had been off the 3rd gen UIM primary right by the flange and was seeing big boost fluctuations from the dynamic pulses of the intake. Moved it to near the TB for a steady signal and it pulled clean and hard to 8,500 rpm.
On teardown the outsides of the bearings were shiny so I am now only going to 8,000 rpm.
05-31-06, 08:08 PM
#40
Originally Posted by BLUE TII
More power without a widebody or running race tires on the street? With the pictured engine build it didn't have traction in 1st-3rd and sideways at the top of 4th. I had to start my high speed runs in 5th to stay in my lane.
Originally Posted by BLUE TII
It is kind of sluggish now in comparison, but I think the clip will bring back most of the power (maybe 40RWHP lost from 3mm seals?) Or perhaps it will just stay streetable
how much power do you think you were making with that hybrid?
Last edited by jacobcartmill; 05-31-06 at 08:21 PM.
06-05-06, 05:34 PM
#42
you are breaking traction at the top of 4th gear? i find that hard to believe. if it is true, are you running plastic tires?
That was on my 300 mile old 225/50-16 Dunlop SP8000 (200 treadwear) on 8" wide rim.
I had a hard time believing it myself. In 3rd it would hit 6,000rpm and then instantly be at the 8,500rpm revlimiter due to wheelspin, in 4th I couldn't keep it in my lane once it hit 6,000 rpm. I took it back to the garage and checked for loose suspension bits, broken mounts etc and tried it 3 more times. Same results. Put it in 5th instead of 4th and it pulled clean past 6,000rpm without any sort of wiggle or instatbility, thus ruling out anything but wheelspin in my mind.
40whp lost just from using 3mm seals? no way. maybe you were losing a little compression from the hard-as-hell RA seals.
I don't know if I am losing 40RWHP from 3mm seals- that was one example I read of on this forum where a member blew a 400RWHP motor and rebuilt it 3mm seals exactly the same and lost 40RWHP. Mazda only claimed a 5% gain from going from 3mm to 2mm seals in their race engines that would only be 20RWHP at 400RWHP loss from 3mm seals.
how much power do you think you were making with that hybrid?
I am as interested to find out as everyone else! The only dyno I have seen of this BNR stage 4 hybrid was the 400RWHP one at 17psi. That one was based on S4 turbo and its tiny .4 AR primary scroll as well as having the stock internal wastegate. I think the S5 turbo and 60mm external wastegate I have are really helping my engine breath. That 400RWHP set-up was getting full boost at like 5,000rpm- I get it at 3,500rpm.
I tell people my car has 300hp- thats my guess until its dynoed
That was on my 300 mile old 225/50-16 Dunlop SP8000 (200 treadwear) on 8" wide rim.
I had a hard time believing it myself. In 3rd it would hit 6,000rpm and then instantly be at the 8,500rpm revlimiter due to wheelspin, in 4th I couldn't keep it in my lane once it hit 6,000 rpm. I took it back to the garage and checked for loose suspension bits, broken mounts etc and tried it 3 more times. Same results. Put it in 5th instead of 4th and it pulled clean past 6,000rpm without any sort of wiggle or instatbility, thus ruling out anything but wheelspin in my mind.
40whp lost just from using 3mm seals? no way. maybe you were losing a little compression from the hard-as-hell RA seals.
I don't know if I am losing 40RWHP from 3mm seals- that was one example I read of on this forum where a member blew a 400RWHP motor and rebuilt it 3mm seals exactly the same and lost 40RWHP. Mazda only claimed a 5% gain from going from 3mm to 2mm seals in their race engines that would only be 20RWHP at 400RWHP loss from 3mm seals.
how much power do you think you were making with that hybrid?
I am as interested to find out as everyone else! The only dyno I have seen of this BNR stage 4 hybrid was the 400RWHP one at 17psi. That one was based on S4 turbo and its tiny .4 AR primary scroll as well as having the stock internal wastegate. I think the S5 turbo and 60mm external wastegate I have are really helping my engine breath. That 400RWHP set-up was getting full boost at like 5,000rpm- I get it at 3,500rpm.
I tell people my car has 300hp- thats my guess until its dynoed
06-07-06, 12:15 AM
#43
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was that 400 bnr stage 4 the one i did for sam?
i'm not sure what housing was used on yours, but with that one being a cosmo, he put a t04e housing on to improve efficiency.
i'm not sure what housing was used on yours, but with that one being a cosmo, he put a t04e housing on to improve efficiency.
06-07-06, 08:02 PM
#44
was that 400 bnr stage 4 the one i did for sam?
Yep, I only have the T04B housing which is typically said to have ~10% loss over the larger T04E housing in the 60-1 .6AR combo.
My 2ndary ports are also limited in size by my S4 front housing and so may have smaller runners than the Cosmo 2ndaries?
I did port early opening intake and a tad later closing exhaust (just to get the best shape at top of port) for more overlap- don't know how your Cosmo was ported.
I am not claiming 400RWHP on the basis of what you made. I stated that is the only Dyno of a BNR Stage 4 I have seen.
That is why I tell people my car is 300 hp- untill I get it dynoed for actual numbers.
Though it is an awsome accomplishment I don't think the 400RWHP you attained is any kind of max power for this turbo. Just by feeling the drop in power from not having my P trim wheel clipped on this build I believe the set-up you tuned would have made quite a bit more power with a ported S5 manifold/exhaust housing and 60mm external wastegate open air vented.
Yep, I only have the T04B housing which is typically said to have ~10% loss over the larger T04E housing in the 60-1 .6AR combo.
My 2ndary ports are also limited in size by my S4 front housing and so may have smaller runners than the Cosmo 2ndaries?
I did port early opening intake and a tad later closing exhaust (just to get the best shape at top of port) for more overlap- don't know how your Cosmo was ported.
I am not claiming 400RWHP on the basis of what you made. I stated that is the only Dyno of a BNR Stage 4 I have seen.
That is why I tell people my car is 300 hp- untill I get it dynoed for actual numbers.
Though it is an awsome accomplishment I don't think the 400RWHP you attained is any kind of max power for this turbo. Just by feeling the drop in power from not having my P trim wheel clipped on this build I believe the set-up you tuned would have made quite a bit more power with a ported S5 manifold/exhaust housing and 60mm external wastegate open air vented.
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