Here is what Jeff McCall had to say about the 1 piece 3mm 13B Black seals that he tested.

Rotary Power
18111 Harvard Blvd.
Gardena, Ca. 90248
(310) 516-9959

N.R.S. Rotor Sports
Edmonton, Alberta


Dear Sven Nielsen,
The Ceramic Apex Seals were installed in a 1987 13B Turbo. This vehicle is used as a commuter vehicle, which commutes 60 to 70 miles a day, 5 day a week.
Under street conditions, we broke in the seals for 744 miles.
Our first test on the seals was at The Streets of Willow Road Race coarse, in California. We ran 10 hard laps at 15 psi of boost, on 91-octane fuel. The temperature at the track was 106 degrees Fahrenheit.
The next test was at 1200 miles. We took it to LA County Raceway for a weekend of drag racing. The seals held up through the abuse of 20 passes on a ¼ mile track.
At 3600 miles we did high speed testing. We ran in 5th gear at 7100 rpm for about 5 miles.
After more commuting and several speed contests with other cars. The engine detonated, which broke two Ceramic seals, a side seal and the rear iron at the dowel pin. To our surprise, the housings survived. After replacing the seals with steel apex seals, which broke after only 500 miles, we found out that it was a wiring problem. Which we determined was there from the beginning. Meaning, your seals lasted 3600 miles with a wiring problem and the steel seals only lasted for 500 miles.
If it wasn’t for the problem, we believe that the seals would have lasted through a lot more of our abuse. It is a shame that our testing of your seals was cut short by a wiring problem, but as they say, “That’s racing.”
I believe that the quality of machining and the tolerances held, rival any Ceramic seals on the market.
Sincerely,
Jeff McCall

 

That sounds pretty interesting.

 

but they still broke

 

sounds like good results... recourse... why dont u test ur titanium seals lol.. jus playin

 

so how much are they? cheaper than the norm for ceramics?

 

When you find detonation proof seals please PLEASE let us know...

 

That was my point As much as we all want bullet proof seals that can withstand dummyproof tuning............it most likely won't happen anytime soon.

Maybe kryptonite seals....that should do the trick.

 

I've got a pocketful of... KRYPTONITE!!!

 

Thanks Scalliwag, I was hoping someone would poimt that out for me.

 

Yes they broke. The important thing to remember is that they broke cleanly, not into a thousand pieces of ripping destruction. There was no damage to any of the internals of the engine and the seals were not ejected into the turbo. I'm not saying that they will never damage an engine when detonated, but in this case the results were very favorable. If not anything else we learned that in this particular case the ceramic seals were more than 7 times tougher than the factory steel seals.

 

I'm not trying to take away any glory, but you CAN NOT say that they are 7 times stronger than stock seals because they lasted 7 times as long.

 

were the steel seals subjected to the same conditions..exactly?..or at least near the same?

i run ceramics and they SAVED me from horrendous maps I recieved from a top tuner.

I'll never go with anything else but ceramic.

j

 

Two things were changed, steel seals from ceramic and the rear iron.

 

we dont need KRYPTONITE seals, we jsut need to get our hands on some of that ADAMANTIUM, once it cools it is indestructible. we could make the entire engine out of it and never have to do a rebuild again, all while running 70 psi on a daily driven 13b

heck 2600 hp= 2000hp/ltr

sounds good to me

Justin

 

LOL!

 

But the point here is that they lasted 7 times as long. Imagine, stock seals last what, 50-60k, average? Multiply that by 7 and all of a sudden you have yourself an engine with reliability of a Saab engine, or a honda engine. Sounds good to me, but I'd like some longterm testing on a properly functioning car.

 

i want controlled, induced detonation dyno testing. And a controlled hp gain test between 2mm and 3mm, ceramic and steel.

 

I have put 39,000 miles on a 1 piece set of the black material. The engine was tore down at this point and there was no measurable wear to the seals. The seals have since been modified to a two piece style and have an additional 5400 miles. The seals are in a 4 port 13B running a 50mm side dreft Weber. Not the 13BTT data you would like but all I have at this time.

 

Stay tuned for test results from P.A.C. Performance(Australia). They are testing the Premium (gray) 1 piece 3mm 13B seals. They intend to break them on the dyno and evaluate their performance compared to other seals, steel and ceramic.

 

Do they come in 2mm flavor?

 

Yes but only 2 piece Black seals at this time, I sold all the 2mm Gray seals.

 

im interested! any for 12a? whats the difference between the gray and black ones? do they use single or double springs?

 

I was just wondering where he was doing 7100 rpm in 5th gear for 5 minutes ...

 

It was 7100 rpm for 5 miles, at that speed it was probably only a few minutes.

 

any numbers on coeficient of friction, hardness, thermal conductivity, and actual physical strenth of the 2 materials?