Broke apex seals/screwed rotors
08-05-02 | 11:32 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 587
Likes: 1
From: Jax, Fl.
Broke apex seals/screwed rotors
I cracked apex seals on BOTH rotors, trashed BOTH housings, & gouged BOTH rotors!
OK, lemme do the math on this:
2 rotors=$800
2 housings=$930
[badword] [/badword]
Anyhow, here are the pics if you get off on others demise...
OK, lemme do the math on this:
2 rotors=$800
2 housings=$930
[badword] [/badword]
Anyhow, here are the pics if you get off on others demise...
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08-06-02 | 05:19 PM
#9
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
From: houston
stock motor and boost
actually guys a stock REMAN motor can easilty with stand 18 psi but not on the stock fuel system or computer! i run stock rotors,seals bearings etc etc on my race car and i am up to 25psi so far but will be at 30+ soon. just a thought! why dont you buy a reman engine ,take it apart port it,clearance the rotors reassemble and hit tha road!!
MWW
MWW
08-07-02 | 02:15 PM
#11
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
From: Bimingham, AL
There isnt that much different from one rebuilt motor to the next unless you get special apex seals and clearanced rotors. Everyone seems to be going back to stock seals anyway so why not get a reman??? It going to be just as good as anything else except it wont be ported. You could prob find someone to crack it open and port it for a decent price. Actually depending on how much power you want paying to have the motor opened up and ported might not even be worth it just for a port job. It would prob cost at least $1K. I'd just get the raman and spend all the saved money on dyno tuning
STEPHEN
STEPHEN
08-07-02 | 08:35 PM
#12
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Hey ES,
I don't know if you are still on the big list, but there was a guy who posted a few days ago that his company is now resurfacing rotor housings. They machine off the original chrome plating and replace it with a ceramic coating.
He says that they can take a completely trashed or gouged rotor housing and restore it to as new specs for less than the price of a new housing. He claims that Mazda used this ceramic coating procedure on the 787B 4-rotor for LeMans, and that it offers superior wear qualities as compared to the original chrome plating.
Anyway, I can't vouch for or endorse this procedure as I really know nothing about it...I just thought it was interesting when I read it. I don't know if you are interested in trying something new, but if you are, you should try to contact the guy. Still won't help you fix your rotors, though.
I don't know if you are still on the big list, but there was a guy who posted a few days ago that his company is now resurfacing rotor housings. They machine off the original chrome plating and replace it with a ceramic coating.
He says that they can take a completely trashed or gouged rotor housing and restore it to as new specs for less than the price of a new housing. He claims that Mazda used this ceramic coating procedure on the 787B 4-rotor for LeMans, and that it offers superior wear qualities as compared to the original chrome plating.
Anyway, I can't vouch for or endorse this procedure as I really know nothing about it...I just thought it was interesting when I read it. I don't know if you are interested in trying something new, but if you are, you should try to contact the guy. Still won't help you fix your rotors, though.
08-08-02 | 10:38 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 587
Likes: 1
From: Jax, Fl.
Originally posted by Red Rotary Rocket
Hey ES,
company is now resurfacing rotor housings. They machine off the original chrome plating and replace it with a ceramic coating.
He says that they can take a completely trashed or gouged rotor housing and restore it to as new specs for less than the price of a new housing. He claims that Mazda used this ceramic coating procedure on the 787B 4-rotor for LeMans, and that it offers superior wear qualities as compared to the original chrome plating.
Hey ES,
company is now resurfacing rotor housings. They machine off the original chrome plating and replace it with a ceramic coating.
He says that they can take a completely trashed or gouged rotor housing and restore it to as new specs for less than the price of a new housing. He claims that Mazda used this ceramic coating procedure on the 787B 4-rotor for LeMans, and that it offers superior wear qualities as compared to the original chrome plating.
Please provide some contact info. Nevermind, I found it...
Thanks
Last edited by es; 08-08-02 at 10:45 AM.
08-08-02 | 04:11 PM
#17
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
To make it easier, I will post a copy of the guy's post. Here it is:
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:32:46 -0500
From: Cliff Roberts <cliff_roberts@mac.com>
Subject: (rx7) [all] Rotary Housing info - long
This is kind of long, Sorry.
Regarding rotary housings, they are what is commonly refered to as "hard
chrome" plated.
The composition includes an addition of tungsten carbide in the alloy
for hardness.
My company is working on a deal with one of the manufacturers for the
housings, to refurbish existing ones with a new performance coating.
They have the only machine in the US that can microfinish the interior
of the housing like mazda does. The company has tested rotary engines
with a ceramic lined interior, and ceramic apex seals, and the results
are amazing. Over 20,000 hours before overhaul, and that is running much
leaner than you could imagine.
Mazda runs this coating on their LeMans engines - 4 rotor, as well as
their hydrogen buring engine.
If anyone is interested in getting a set of housings coated, for
performance or longivity, contact me.
There is a possibility of getting a reduced rate during the development
stage.
If this works out, there will be no need to ever replace rotor housings,
unless they are cracked.
Even damaged ones with a failed apex seal gouges can be brought back to
as new.
Cheaper than replacing them. Also, compression ratios can be raised, by
adding thickness to the rotor itself.
possibility of getting rotors made from other alloys like stainless
steel.
Or if you have the big bucks, some superlight alloy containing titanium.
The ceremic coating may be applied on regular apex seals as well,
hopefully cutting the cost of them,
while dramatically adding longivity, and durability. One of the biggest
issues in any pump is sealing, and the gasoline engine is nothing more
than a great big pump. Fix the seal and increase the efficiancy, or in
this case Horsepower.
The weight will still be a factor, so for ultra high revving engines,
pure ceramic will still be recommended.
BTW, for those interested, the way the housings are finished is pretty
cool, the abrasive stays still, and the housing rotates around it in an
eccentric orbit.
Cliff
93 CYM
Cliff Roberts
President
Metal Solutions Corp
p.o. Box 60002
San Angelo, Texas 76906
From: Cliff Roberts <cliff_roberts@mac.com>
Subject: (rx7) [all] Rotary Housing info - long
This is kind of long, Sorry.
Regarding rotary housings, they are what is commonly refered to as "hard
chrome" plated.
The composition includes an addition of tungsten carbide in the alloy
for hardness.
My company is working on a deal with one of the manufacturers for the
housings, to refurbish existing ones with a new performance coating.
They have the only machine in the US that can microfinish the interior
of the housing like mazda does. The company has tested rotary engines
with a ceramic lined interior, and ceramic apex seals, and the results
are amazing. Over 20,000 hours before overhaul, and that is running much
leaner than you could imagine.
Mazda runs this coating on their LeMans engines - 4 rotor, as well as
their hydrogen buring engine.
If anyone is interested in getting a set of housings coated, for
performance or longivity, contact me.
There is a possibility of getting a reduced rate during the development
stage.
If this works out, there will be no need to ever replace rotor housings,
unless they are cracked.
Even damaged ones with a failed apex seal gouges can be brought back to
as new.
Cheaper than replacing them. Also, compression ratios can be raised, by
adding thickness to the rotor itself.
possibility of getting rotors made from other alloys like stainless
steel.
Or if you have the big bucks, some superlight alloy containing titanium.
The ceremic coating may be applied on regular apex seals as well,
hopefully cutting the cost of them,
while dramatically adding longivity, and durability. One of the biggest
issues in any pump is sealing, and the gasoline engine is nothing more
than a great big pump. Fix the seal and increase the efficiancy, or in
this case Horsepower.
The weight will still be a factor, so for ultra high revving engines,
pure ceramic will still be recommended.
BTW, for those interested, the way the housings are finished is pretty
cool, the abrasive stays still, and the housing rotates around it in an
eccentric orbit.
Cliff
93 CYM
Cliff Roberts
President
Metal Solutions Corp
p.o. Box 60002
San Angelo, Texas 76906
but the get the reman, port it and you will have a great motor.
08-11-02 | 09:55 PM
#20
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
From: houston
yeah but you also get new bearings (150)seals(300)springs etc...etc... and flywheel, waterpump, thermostat!!!! waaaay worth the money. i remember a few years ago Ari made 420 rwhp with a stock motor so it weems worth it to me.
MWW
MWW
08-12-02 | 08:42 AM
#22
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 587
Likes: 1
From: Jax, Fl.
I've already got a box of goodies that I've been accumulating. Bearings, Viton oil o-rings, teflon/silicone coolant o-rings, competition oil ring springs...
Yes I could throw those in a reman, but the cost would be greater.
I've pretty much come to peace with filling down the gouges in the rotors, milling for 3mm apex seals, and having the housings re-plated.
Thanks for the input though.
Eric.
Yes I could throw those in a reman, but the cost would be greater.
I've pretty much come to peace with filling down the gouges in the rotors, milling for 3mm apex seals, and having the housings re-plated.
Thanks for the input though.
Eric.
08-12-02 | 07:53 PM
#24
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
From: Bimingham, AL
ES - Yea if you can build your own motor then you should do that instead of getting a reman. I was under the impression you'd either get a reman or get a motor from somewhere else. If you can rebuild it yourself for just parts that is the way to go.
STEPHEN
STEPHEN