ban jesus padilla
08-13-04 | 07:39 AM
#26
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: florida
fdracer.....20b=v8
this will be the last time i will address the ridiculous notion that a 20b is equivalent to a v8. but i guess its not as bad, ive heard other morons say its equivalent to a 9 cylinder.
i find your "low buck 1200 hp" comment to be ignorant. while it is true that some 4 cylinders are destroked to lower displacement, it is never lowered any lower then 2.0 liter which is no where near 1.3 liter. get that straight and dont forget it.
the rotor is superior to the piston because you can make as much horsepower with alot less money and alot less displacement. and those are facts.
if you could make a 13b a 2.0 liter, you could easily make 1300+hp.
or imagine a 20b at 3.0 liter, the numbers would be insane.
siguel has run nhra weight, and hes run a best of 7.12@189mph and that was before he was making all the power that he is now. you say that you cant win an event running 6.9's? again where have you been? did you see last weeks event?
hartford beat abel running 13 seconds. at the may event in atco ara won running 8.26. at the englishtown event brad won running 7.13. at the florida event george from bullish ran 7.27 to win. and in the first event in california george from bullish won running 15.04, so please dont be so moronic and say that you cant win an event running 6.9's.
and dont even make me post all of papadakis et's because hes not running consistently. he runs one good pass here one good pass there. papadakis aint sandbagging anything, another stupid remark.
one more thing. the modified class allows 2 rotors a minimum of 1,900lbs but i guarantee you that there is nobody in the class running at that weight. carlos sr. rx7 weighs more then 2,100lbs. and carlos jr's rx-3 is at around 2,200lbs.
and again if you know anything about displacement or about the rotor for that matter, you know that a 13b is no way compared to a v6.
i look at it this way, the rotor has been around for years, kicking @$$ for years. the other brands like toyota, mitsubishi, nissan got sick of taking a beating from the little 1.3 rotor that could. so they decided to join forces and make these huge 3.0 liter inline and v6 engines just so they could keep up. they couldnt come up with a similar piston motor with similar displacement to compete so they cheated and went big block. it was only after you guys went big block that mazda introduced the equivalent of a v6, the 3 rotor.
i'll have to agree with riddler-pr and say that fdracer should just trade in his fd and buy a piston powered supra or 350z. maybe that will make him happy.
i find your "low buck 1200 hp" comment to be ignorant. while it is true that some 4 cylinders are destroked to lower displacement, it is never lowered any lower then 2.0 liter which is no where near 1.3 liter. get that straight and dont forget it.
the rotor is superior to the piston because you can make as much horsepower with alot less money and alot less displacement. and those are facts.
if you could make a 13b a 2.0 liter, you could easily make 1300+hp.
or imagine a 20b at 3.0 liter, the numbers would be insane.
siguel has run nhra weight, and hes run a best of 7.12@189mph and that was before he was making all the power that he is now. you say that you cant win an event running 6.9's? again where have you been? did you see last weeks event?
hartford beat abel running 13 seconds. at the may event in atco ara won running 8.26. at the englishtown event brad won running 7.13. at the florida event george from bullish ran 7.27 to win. and in the first event in california george from bullish won running 15.04, so please dont be so moronic and say that you cant win an event running 6.9's.
and dont even make me post all of papadakis et's because hes not running consistently. he runs one good pass here one good pass there. papadakis aint sandbagging anything, another stupid remark.
one more thing. the modified class allows 2 rotors a minimum of 1,900lbs but i guarantee you that there is nobody in the class running at that weight. carlos sr. rx7 weighs more then 2,100lbs. and carlos jr's rx-3 is at around 2,200lbs.
and again if you know anything about displacement or about the rotor for that matter, you know that a 13b is no way compared to a v6.
i look at it this way, the rotor has been around for years, kicking @$$ for years. the other brands like toyota, mitsubishi, nissan got sick of taking a beating from the little 1.3 rotor that could. so they decided to join forces and make these huge 3.0 liter inline and v6 engines just so they could keep up. they couldnt come up with a similar piston motor with similar displacement to compete so they cheated and went big block. it was only after you guys went big block that mazda introduced the equivalent of a v6, the 3 rotor.
i'll have to agree with riddler-pr and say that fdracer should just trade in his fd and buy a piston powered supra or 350z. maybe that will make him happy.
08-13-04 | 08:38 AM
#27
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Brandon, Florida
fastrotor..you couldnt have said it better...
But to address the original topic...NHRA needs to have specific rules as to power vs. weight ratio AND maximum cubic centimeter displacement (example: pro-stock, top-fuel and so on-they have specific maximum cubic inch displacement)
I think what I just said is the basic premise NHRA should address to make their efforts more respectable and credible...
I understand their situation as a sanctioning body and one that is trying to keep their business going meeting demands from racers, fans and to them most important-corporate sponsors...
I will agree with FD on just one point-not many competitors!!!...and that will make parity difficult but it has to be addressed and pronto!!!
Let me specify...not many competitors as to make the 16 field category in every division competitive...some have big HP some dont and it is very uneven at times...
Let me finish by saying: let us NOT ban Jesus Padilla or any racer in any class for that matter. Jesus as many other drivers will adapt to the rules if they are well-balanced and show parity-that is the whole thing about competition-rules laid out and competing by them. Lets encourage NHRA to address this issue and perhaps topics like these will end in the future...
But to address the original topic...NHRA needs to have specific rules as to power vs. weight ratio AND maximum cubic centimeter displacement (example: pro-stock, top-fuel and so on-they have specific maximum cubic inch displacement)
I think what I just said is the basic premise NHRA should address to make their efforts more respectable and credible...
I understand their situation as a sanctioning body and one that is trying to keep their business going meeting demands from racers, fans and to them most important-corporate sponsors...
I will agree with FD on just one point-not many competitors!!!...and that will make parity difficult but it has to be addressed and pronto!!!
Let me specify...not many competitors as to make the 16 field category in every division competitive...some have big HP some dont and it is very uneven at times...
Let me finish by saying: let us NOT ban Jesus Padilla or any racer in any class for that matter. Jesus as many other drivers will adapt to the rules if they are well-balanced and show parity-that is the whole thing about competition-rules laid out and competing by them. Lets encourage NHRA to address this issue and perhaps topics like these will end in the future...
08-21-04 | 01:40 AM
#29
Ho Ho Ho
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
From: Shaw AFB, SC finally close to home!!! yeah!
Originally Posted by riddler_pr
fd...
You say that a 20b is the equivalent of a v-8 and you say that rotary engines are inferior, do you see where you are contradicting yourself???
If they are inferior, there is no way you should compare it to a v-8..
You say also that a 13b is compared to a 6 cyl..again you contradict yourself...
I have a feeling you are not very happy with the fd that you own...
Perhaps you should change to a supra or a piston and find the car happiness that you are searching for...
Relax dude, its only exchanging ideas....
You say that a 20b is the equivalent of a v-8 and you say that rotary engines are inferior, do you see where you are contradicting yourself???
If they are inferior, there is no way you should compare it to a v-8..
You say also that a 13b is compared to a 6 cyl..again you contradict yourself...
I have a feeling you are not very happy with the fd that you own...
Perhaps you should change to a supra or a piston and find the car happiness that you are searching for...
Relax dude, its only exchanging ideas....
EXACTLY!!!!! I agree!!!!
If you state that "Rotary engines are inferior" and then say that a 20B is equal to a V-8 you are TOTALLY contradicting yourself and your own statements! For the past couple of years, I have sat back and carefully observed the feelings and opinions of so many rotary - rx7 fans.
There are those who support the rotary no matter what!!!! They are the ones that stand behind it all the way and in their eyes the rotary will live on forever even if they are the only person left to support it! THOSE ARE THE TRUE ROTARY FANS!
They are the ones who can admit when they have a problem with their rotary but they still continue to support it!!! Even though they may be discouraged at that moment, deep down they never really give up on it!
Even if their stats are the worst ever recorded, they can admit it and they simply don't care what others think because it's their passion and they love it no matter how wonderful or terrible it runs or performs! They are the ones who love their rx3,rx7,rx8 and so on, for it's heart (THE MOTOR) and all of the other great features that come with it are just extras that simply add to the great invention!
I am in no way judging anyone or trying to start an argument but I just wanted to express my opinion! We all know who the true rotary fans are and to me everyone else can kiss my a**! HAHA , just kidding!
Last edited by sexxy7; 08-21-04 at 01:43 AM.
08-21-04 | 10:25 PM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 613
Likes: 2
From: North Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by fastrotor30
have any of you guys noticed the way the nhra keeps penalizing the rotors in the all-motor class? its every year that they do it. it got me thinking, why dont they just do away with the rear wheel drives cars in the field. i'd rather see the nhra ban them, then to continually slap them in the face with these stupid rules changes which are meant to handicap the rotors.
they did it to ken scheepers last year. they changed the rules of the game when they knew ken was going to win the championship. and look what happened, he lost the championship by 8 freaking points.
this year when they seen that padilla came back with a vengance and leading in points, here came the nhra to the rescue, again helping the freaking fwd's.
the reason they said was "to keep the field more competitive" but ive check all of the qualifying rounds and elimination rounds in the all-motor class and padilla and mohler have never been more then .010 from each other. .010 i mean how much more competitive do they want it? i could understand maybe half a second, but damn .010????
and the funny thing is that scott mohler was bragging about his winning as if he doesnt know that its being handed to him. he says "There is no doubt that we are on top of our game right now and feel like we can win every race the rest of the season."
what he should be doing is thanking the nhra for all their help. he knows that without them he wouldnt be in the points lead.
since the nhra is all about competitive racing and all i wonder if the nhra will handicap the lucas solara now that hes running 7.4's and 7.5's. i e-mailed the nhra and told them that i expect to see new rule changes in the modified class that will allow the rx-7s of carlos sr. and carlos jr. to stay competitive.
its all about money and money only. if you feel the same way, let the nhra know that its pretty #$@# %^ what they are doing.
they did it to ken scheepers last year. they changed the rules of the game when they knew ken was going to win the championship. and look what happened, he lost the championship by 8 freaking points.
this year when they seen that padilla came back with a vengance and leading in points, here came the nhra to the rescue, again helping the freaking fwd's.
the reason they said was "to keep the field more competitive" but ive check all of the qualifying rounds and elimination rounds in the all-motor class and padilla and mohler have never been more then .010 from each other. .010 i mean how much more competitive do they want it? i could understand maybe half a second, but damn .010????
and the funny thing is that scott mohler was bragging about his winning as if he doesnt know that its being handed to him. he says "There is no doubt that we are on top of our game right now and feel like we can win every race the rest of the season."
what he should be doing is thanking the nhra for all their help. he knows that without them he wouldnt be in the points lead.
since the nhra is all about competitive racing and all i wonder if the nhra will handicap the lucas solara now that hes running 7.4's and 7.5's. i e-mailed the nhra and told them that i expect to see new rule changes in the modified class that will allow the rx-7s of carlos sr. and carlos jr. to stay competitive.
its all about money and money only. if you feel the same way, let the nhra know that its pretty #$@# %^ what they are doing.
I don't think they have to handicap rotors againsts 4 cylinders, sinse 4 bangers be running quicker rotors overall anyways!
08-21-04 | 10:26 PM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 613
Likes: 2
From: North Atlanta, GA
BTW a 20B is only compareble to a v6...look at the 1/4 mile times...
Actually my fault, i don't think it's better than the fastest 4 cylinder time...
Actually my fault, i don't think it's better than the fastest 4 cylinder time...
Last edited by 12abridgeport; 08-21-04 at 10:38 PM.
08-24-04 | 08:05 PM
#32
Cadillac_Slider
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fl
Gotta love a good debate
. Here's a thought. The 13BT is the comparison of a 4 banger. Sound good? Next up, the 13B-REW. I personally say it can be compared to V6 because of the power it makes & can be made to make. How about the 13B-RE, there's a motor that I never see enough of. I guess that is in the same class as the 13B-REW. Lets take the 13B-Renesis, that motor is 1.3L(sitting still) & 2.6L while in motion. Not to mention the theoretical state of it being able to be considered a 3.9L.(I can go into details, ask for them) Now, lets take the 20B. This motor is a beast. Everyone here knows this. I personally don't know the complete specs & what not on it, but if I had the chance to work on one I would do so to the fullest. This motor IMO can be compared to a large displacement v6. Not a v8 though. Have a look at some of the Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, etc that are out there. Thier motors are just huge.
Now, if we really need a rotary to compare to the v8s. Heres one for you, the 787 Rotary used in the LeMans race. This is a motor that was banned after having the unfair adavntage of having a rotary. If you really want to compare the two.(V-motors to a Rotary) Look inside & tell me who really has the advantage. We(Rotorheads) can make boat loads of hp & still be streetable. How many 1,000hp plus 4-bangers do you or have you seen that do that. Closest one off the top of my head is the Signal S15 Silvia pushing 800 horses in street legal form. It's run in road races though, but you get the idea. If you want to make a motor superior, define the motor. An RB26DETT is a superior motor, a 2JZ-GTE is a superior motor(as many have seen) & a 20B is a superior motor. Some may ask how all these are superior. Think about their configurations. 2.6L AWD, 3.0L RWD, and 2.0L RWD.
Lets be real here, in comparison to piston tuners. Really how many rotary tuners are there. By comparison there aren't as many. Why, because the rotary was different. And still is to this day. I know numorous people that have driven piston powered cars all their life. Then they sit behind a rotary & their hooked. It all comes down to people who have & haven't sat behind one.
As far as NHRA goes, screw em'. I mean damn, it's their rules. How many of you have actually did what the first statement said? Which was e-mail them. I personally don't care enough to do so. Mainly because rotaries are different & the fan base behind it really doesn't care much for rotaries. They are there for competitions & explosions.
There are people pulling Hondas out of their asses, but how many Mazdas & Nissans do you see in the feild? I'm still waiting to see a RB25DET powered 240SX make it's way down the 1320(1/4 mile). Sorry if parts of this doesn't make any sense, I am functioning off Sobe Energy drinks & about 3 hours of sleep for the past 3 days.
What we really need to do is have the bigger companies start building drag cars. like Petite(seeing as how they work on & have been working on the 20b platform for sometime now. Either way, if you want to see rotaries performing with the other motors. Lets make it happen. Anyway possible. Hell i'd love to see more rotaries in the running. A 4-rotor FC sounds good.
Sorry for the length. The comment on the drift scene. I am so all about that. Just because it's not full blown...yet. But chances are it wont get as rediculously big as the import drags scene. Only because there aren't enough RWD cars. Not until you get into the domestic market, but even thats not such a good idea. Secondly, it takes skill to do it. Not just a 10-sec or less run. Look at Rhys Millen in the GTO. Least in that event it's everyone vs. everyone. From a tiny N/A 4G AE86 to a potent pair or HKS big boy turboed Silvias. Best part is that the AE86 has a fighting chance. As some have observed by the win taken by...i'm not even attempting his name. Just my 2 quaters in the topic. BTW. SXXXY(I think thats your name. The girl who is into rotaries...I LOVE YOU:P. Sorry couldn't resist, girls into things other then Civics, Eclipses, & other FWD cars are a rare thing in the states)
. Here's a thought. The 13BT is the comparison of a 4 banger. Sound good? Next up, the 13B-REW. I personally say it can be compared to V6 because of the power it makes & can be made to make. How about the 13B-RE, there's a motor that I never see enough of. I guess that is in the same class as the 13B-REW. Lets take the 13B-Renesis, that motor is 1.3L(sitting still) & 2.6L while in motion. Not to mention the theoretical state of it being able to be considered a 3.9L.(I can go into details, ask for them) Now, lets take the 20B. This motor is a beast. Everyone here knows this. I personally don't know the complete specs & what not on it, but if I had the chance to work on one I would do so to the fullest. This motor IMO can be compared to a large displacement v6. Not a v8 though. Have a look at some of the Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, etc that are out there. Thier motors are just huge.Now, if we really need a rotary to compare to the v8s. Heres one for you, the 787 Rotary used in the LeMans race. This is a motor that was banned after having the unfair adavntage of having a rotary. If you really want to compare the two.(V-motors to a Rotary) Look inside & tell me who really has the advantage. We(Rotorheads) can make boat loads of hp & still be streetable. How many 1,000hp plus 4-bangers do you or have you seen that do that. Closest one off the top of my head is the Signal S15 Silvia pushing 800 horses in street legal form. It's run in road races though, but you get the idea. If you want to make a motor superior, define the motor. An RB26DETT is a superior motor, a 2JZ-GTE is a superior motor(as many have seen) & a 20B is a superior motor. Some may ask how all these are superior. Think about their configurations. 2.6L AWD, 3.0L RWD, and 2.0L RWD.
Lets be real here, in comparison to piston tuners. Really how many rotary tuners are there. By comparison there aren't as many. Why, because the rotary was different. And still is to this day. I know numorous people that have driven piston powered cars all their life. Then they sit behind a rotary & their hooked. It all comes down to people who have & haven't sat behind one.
As far as NHRA goes, screw em'. I mean damn, it's their rules. How many of you have actually did what the first statement said? Which was e-mail them. I personally don't care enough to do so. Mainly because rotaries are different & the fan base behind it really doesn't care much for rotaries. They are there for competitions & explosions.
There are people pulling Hondas out of their asses, but how many Mazdas & Nissans do you see in the feild? I'm still waiting to see a RB25DET powered 240SX make it's way down the 1320(1/4 mile). Sorry if parts of this doesn't make any sense, I am functioning off Sobe Energy drinks & about 3 hours of sleep for the past 3 days.
What we really need to do is have the bigger companies start building drag cars. like Petite(seeing as how they work on & have been working on the 20b platform for sometime now. Either way, if you want to see rotaries performing with the other motors. Lets make it happen. Anyway possible. Hell i'd love to see more rotaries in the running. A 4-rotor FC sounds good
.Sorry for the length. The comment on the drift scene. I am so all about that. Just because it's not full blown...yet. But chances are it wont get as rediculously big as the import drags scene. Only because there aren't enough RWD cars. Not until you get into the domestic market, but even thats not such a good idea. Secondly, it takes skill to do it. Not just a 10-sec or less run. Look at Rhys Millen in the GTO. Least in that event it's everyone vs. everyone. From a tiny N/A 4G AE86 to a potent pair or HKS big boy turboed Silvias. Best part is that the AE86 has a fighting chance. As some have observed by the win taken by...i'm not even attempting his name. Just my 2 quaters in the topic. BTW. SXXXY(I think thats your name. The girl who is into rotaries...I LOVE YOU:P. Sorry couldn't resist, girls into things other then Civics, Eclipses, & other FWD cars are a rare thing in the states)
08-24-04 | 08:08 PM
#33
Cadillac_Slider
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fl
Holy hell, never know how much you write in this quick reply till you hit the reply link. Didn't seem like that much when I finished, but hey. I said what I needed. Now Unload all negative comments on me because chances are that i'll just sit back & laugh. Right along side of the guy who also realizes its a forum & it's not meant to be taken so seriously
