Can the rotary FD be a reliable track car?
02-22-23, 12:21 AM
#1
Can the rotary FD be a reliable track car?
Curious if anybody has tracked a FD for extended periods of time and what the typical "life expectancy" out of a track only 13B-REW is.
I'm at a point where it's clear my current motor's health is rapidly deteriorating, hot starts are becoming a little harder each time and I had some very weird back firing under full boost during my last track day (split second POP and loss of power under full boost).
To be fair, I didn't start with the best base, I rebuilt my motor myself with used irons, housings and rotors (though they were in "spec").
And I also abused this motor when I was on my stock setup, I'd push temps to the ragged edge to turn laps.
But with the compression at ok numbers (85's front and 95's rear), I got a setup that I would consider "good".
The car is tuned reasonably, 278 whp on BNR Stage 3 Twins
Distilled water AI
KS V-Mount
Dual 25 Row Oil Coolers
Swapped RX8 Fans and blades
I change the oil every 3 track days and premix heavily during track as well.
The above setup has kept my temps well under control.
I would say this "freshly" rebuilt motor has around 20 track days on it, with some nominal number of street miles.
But even so, the compression has been going down during the last 7-8 track days. Last time I checked, my fronts were low 70s and rears mid 80s.
I love this platform to drive and I have a lot of sentimental value attached to the car, but I also want to do just that... drive.
If I were to drop a new keg in, built by a reputable shop, can I expect it last significantly longer on my current setup? Are there other modifications (short of a complete single turbo swap with Haltech) that can make a track setup last longer?
Or if I really just enjoy the driving portion, is it more worth it just to cut my losses, sell the car for what I can, and move to a more "reliable" platform?
Thanks for hearing me out
I'm at a point where it's clear my current motor's health is rapidly deteriorating, hot starts are becoming a little harder each time and I had some very weird back firing under full boost during my last track day (split second POP and loss of power under full boost).
To be fair, I didn't start with the best base, I rebuilt my motor myself with used irons, housings and rotors (though they were in "spec").
And I also abused this motor when I was on my stock setup, I'd push temps to the ragged edge to turn laps.
But with the compression at ok numbers (85's front and 95's rear), I got a setup that I would consider "good".
The car is tuned reasonably, 278 whp on BNR Stage 3 Twins
Distilled water AI
KS V-Mount
Dual 25 Row Oil Coolers
Swapped RX8 Fans and blades
I change the oil every 3 track days and premix heavily during track as well.
The above setup has kept my temps well under control.
I would say this "freshly" rebuilt motor has around 20 track days on it, with some nominal number of street miles.
But even so, the compression has been going down during the last 7-8 track days. Last time I checked, my fronts were low 70s and rears mid 80s.
I love this platform to drive and I have a lot of sentimental value attached to the car, but I also want to do just that... drive.
If I were to drop a new keg in, built by a reputable shop, can I expect it last significantly longer on my current setup? Are there other modifications (short of a complete single turbo swap with Haltech) that can make a track setup last longer?
Or if I really just enjoy the driving portion, is it more worth it just to cut my losses, sell the car for what I can, and move to a more "reliable" platform?
Thanks for hearing me out
02-22-23, 08:52 AM
#2
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the logical next step would be to pull your old engine apart, and see what is worn/bad and then address that, but that also kind of commits you to the platform.
if you want to feel better the local BMW guy can do 3 engine changes in 25 hours...
if you want to feel better the local BMW guy can do 3 engine changes in 25 hours...
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R-R-Rx7 (02-28-23)
02-22-23, 06:03 PM
#4
If you do a 300hp Naturally Aspirated set-up it would be very reliable (even when compared to reliable piston engine cars), but have half the torque you have now.
So, you could do 4.78 rear end ratio out of RX-8 to get the torque at the wheels back up.
Its not cheap to do a high hp NA build though. However, some of the cost is parts you probably already need (new rotor housings).
As j9fd3s replied, since you are already building your engines yourself you could keep to a low boost non-sequential twins build and find out how reliable it is for you with a decent engine as a base.
Its going to depend on how ontop of troubleshooting you are.
The cutting out under power is 100% not a mechanical issue.
Perhaps an Ecu cut (overboost fuel cut?), ignition drop out or fuel drop out from faulty wiring.
Did you mention what ecu you are using (power fc?).
What car would you consider as a reliable track car if you were to jump platforms?
So, you could do 4.78 rear end ratio out of RX-8 to get the torque at the wheels back up.
Its not cheap to do a high hp NA build though. However, some of the cost is parts you probably already need (new rotor housings).
As j9fd3s replied, since you are already building your engines yourself you could keep to a low boost non-sequential twins build and find out how reliable it is for you with a decent engine as a base.
Its going to depend on how ontop of troubleshooting you are.
The cutting out under power is 100% not a mechanical issue.
Perhaps an Ecu cut (overboost fuel cut?), ignition drop out or fuel drop out from faulty wiring.
Did you mention what ecu you are using (power fc?).
What car would you consider as a reliable track car if you were to jump platforms?
02-22-23, 06:20 PM
#5
@BLUE TII I'm on the PowerFC. The cutting out was something intermittent, and actually went away later in the day. But I know for sure the motor's on its last legs or at the very least, on its way out. The compression has been going down (been taking measurements every few track days) and hot starts, which never used to be an issue, have slowly started requiring more and more crank before firing up. I'm sure if the car was only street driven, the compression would still be solid and I am going to stop for this season since summer is coming up anyway so hopefully this halts the compression loss for now.
Keeping the car is my most preferred option, and after talking with some shops, it seems an extensively modified block isn't necessary at all, as in, a new or rebuilt keg might be plenty reliable for the 300 whp range, so makes me think perhaps this premature death is mostly due to a bad base or due to the abuse it suffered when my setup wasn't optimal.
As for other reliable options, I've considered:
C5/C6
BRZ/FRS
S2000
E46 M3s
981 Cayman
As you said, basically anything NA.
Keeping the car is my most preferred option, and after talking with some shops, it seems an extensively modified block isn't necessary at all, as in, a new or rebuilt keg might be plenty reliable for the 300 whp range, so makes me think perhaps this premature death is mostly due to a bad base or due to the abuse it suffered when my setup wasn't optimal.
As for other reliable options, I've considered:
C5/C6
BRZ/FRS
S2000
E46 M3s
981 Cayman
As you said, basically anything NA.
02-22-23, 09:28 PM
#6
Some wildly different cars on your list, but they are all NA...
If you are OK with ~200rwhp in an S2000 or BRZ another option would be a ~200-250rwhp NA build on the FD with the 4.78 rear.
That would be cheap and you could sell your BNRs to recoup $ (since they are in demand currently).
You will drop about 100lbs off the front of the FD (turbos, IC/piping, stock manifolds) which will sharpen up the handling even further. You will get to be on the gas all the time which is fun.
The big bummer is it will be slower than a stock engine FD.
FD is a great chassis- lightest car on the list, can fit as wide a front wheel/tire as C6, best suspension on the list and great aftermarket support and cheap parts from Mazda Motorsports.
There are a TON of FDs being built for time attack in Japan right now and there is a reason its the fastest NA car around Tsukuba.
But there is also a reason the other cars listed are so fast in the USA- so many people have them and have figured out how to set them up.
If you are OK with ~200rwhp in an S2000 or BRZ another option would be a ~200-250rwhp NA build on the FD with the 4.78 rear.
That would be cheap and you could sell your BNRs to recoup $ (since they are in demand currently).
You will drop about 100lbs off the front of the FD (turbos, IC/piping, stock manifolds) which will sharpen up the handling even further. You will get to be on the gas all the time which is fun.
The big bummer is it will be slower than a stock engine FD.
FD is a great chassis- lightest car on the list, can fit as wide a front wheel/tire as C6, best suspension on the list and great aftermarket support and cheap parts from Mazda Motorsports.
There are a TON of FDs being built for time attack in Japan right now and there is a reason its the fastest NA car around Tsukuba.
But there is also a reason the other cars listed are so fast in the USA- so many people have them and have figured out how to set them up.
02-23-23, 08:50 AM
#7
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there are trade offs to every car, for instance the c5/c6 has tires and brakes that are $$$$$, the E46 is just expensive all around, the S2000 has an engine that wears out, but can't be rebuilt, etc etc
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02-23-23, 12:00 PM
#8
Rotary Enthusiast
Have you re-tuned the car since the last rebuild? Big compression changes will have an impact on AFRs, etc.
It's funny how nobody has answered the "how long will it last" question. There's definitely a ton of "it depends" in there, but I would also love to hear from some people tracking them. And real answers, let's hear about the failures because we know they are there like every car.
What's the current cost of a 20B N/A build, aiming for ~350whp? Could use all short irons saving a ton of money over a thick iron, and the the longevity vs a turbo car is undoubtedly better. I saw RE-Amemiyas 3 rotor N/A car recently, hood was closed but it looked mean. No oil coolers, just a massive radiator. I bet you could get the front end lighter than stock, and perhaps get it done under the cost of an E46 M3?
It's funny how nobody has answered the "how long will it last" question. There's definitely a ton of "it depends" in there, but I would also love to hear from some people tracking them. And real answers, let's hear about the failures because we know they are there like every car.
What's the current cost of a 20B N/A build, aiming for ~350whp? Could use all short irons saving a ton of money over a thick iron, and the the longevity vs a turbo car is undoubtedly better. I saw RE-Amemiyas 3 rotor N/A car recently, hood was closed but it looked mean. No oil coolers, just a massive radiator. I bet you could get the front end lighter than stock, and perhaps get it done under the cost of an E46 M3?
02-23-23, 01:24 PM
#9
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by mr2peak
I bet you could get the front end lighter than stock, and perhaps get it done under the cost of an E46 M3?
Will agree the longevity on track, at least when using carbon seals, is far superior to a turbo.....can recycle parts over and over instead of basically throwing away the engine every couple of years.
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mr2peak (02-23-23)
02-23-23, 01:31 PM
#10
In my narrow scope of experience, from what I've seen over the years at tracks and talking to owners and friends with some of those listed cars, the only one of those that's likely to be cheapish to run is the 981. Seems most "reliable" track cars nearly always prove to be a myth if tracked regularly, especially if modified much at all. Have seen more than a few vettes and frs's come apart on track. Even if you have to rebuild every few seasons, there's quite the possibility you're still money ahead compared to feeding a vette tires and brakes, or dealing with the consistent BMW problems of the e46m.
The 981 is an absolute sweetheart on the track, and seems to hold up well. If I were smarter, I'd own one for track duty. Downside is, can't really get that much more out of them without spending big money, and if something does break, its not going to be cheap. But I digress, FD is the only one of my cars that doesn't see track time, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
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gracer7-rx7 (02-23-23)
02-23-23, 01:37 PM
#11
Rotary Enthusiast
I should probably keep my nose out of it, but I can't help but mention how dominant and longstanding porsche has been in endurance racing.
02-24-23, 04:50 AM
#13
Rotary Enthusiast
Porsche have won 24 hours of LeMans 19 times, BMW has won 24 hours of Nuremberg 20 times. Both outstanding records. E30 M3 still has the most wins of any chassis so they say, but you'd be bored in an E30 coming from the FD.
We all know the real solution is a V8 Miata but let's pretend I never said that
We all know the real solution is a V8 Miata but let's pretend I never said that
02-24-23, 11:51 AM
#14
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It's funny how nobody has answered the "how long will it last" question. There's definitely a ton of "it depends" in there, but I would also love to hear from some people tracking them. And real answers, let's hear about the failures because we know they are there like every car.
most of the race cars i've built or helped build have died because they were hit by stuff, now that i think about it. i'll list the engine failures, there aren't too many
1. FC Rx7, i'm not sure what actually went bad, but the coolant temp gauge was pegged, but they didn't believe it, so they drove it until it stopped, and then spit on the crank pulley to see that it was in fact overheated....
2. same FC, Paul used hit the rev limiter at about the start finish line, and just let it stay there until turn 2, eventually it said no, https://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOF/K2RD/k2rdhof01.html
replacement engine had a different ecu, and we just spun it to 9400rpm, and it was fine.
3. Honda B something, we had borrowed a type R engine which was obviously very tired, we let a friend drive it and it let go after about half a lap. spectacular smoke show. a quick tear down revealed the exhaust valves in the intake. engine was 100% garbage.
4. Honda B18. 25 hour endurance car. we had our builder build the engine, we put it in, went to dyno. builder added a couple degrees of timing, and power didn't change so he left it. engine proceeded to detonate itself to death. tear down revealed that the 0.020" over block had stock pistons in it too, so FML. we tried our tuners tune vs the stock map on the new engine, and the stock map made more power...
5. Miata 1.6. car had the coolant re route. on this engine that means the upper radiator hose comes off the BACK of the engine instead of the front. so hose went to pipe, went to stock hose to radiator. hose popped off the pipe, and engine was toast. we kept running it anyways. its a race!
6. Fungus Mungus's FB. not really a race car, but we were out with the factory Mazda race cars when it happened. screw came out of the air cleaner and went in to the engine, it bent the rotor enough to pinch a seal. we got super lucky really
7. the Lemons car. its an Rx7 GSL-SE. apex seal broke. kind of a fluke, i think we had hurt it before, the fuel line was twisted, so maybe after 2 events we had hurt the engine? or maybe it got over revved?
02-25-23, 12:57 AM
#15
Senior Member
It can be done . Turbos and track time means heat management. I recommend big brakes, 2 engine oil coolers, big rad, pulleys, diff cooler if running more than 10 minutes at a time, , and overfill the engine oil and have a huge catch can. Turbos on rotaries will always produce engine blowby pressure and blow out some oil, especially old engines. Go with 1000 pound suspension springs to start . We got around 50 race hours out of the engines. Lots of chatter marks on the housings. I Raced a 1993 rx7 for over 20 years . Honestly an LS swap works better for track work than any rotary in my opinion.
02-25-23, 09:40 PM
#16
Porsche and BMW couldnt catch a break 1991-1995 in Australia.
Supra won the 1st race in '91 and then the FD came out and won '92-95. Series was cancelled...
Thanks to Porsche creating the 911 RS CS to try to win in '95 we got the RX-7 SP homolagation special.
Just incase people didnt get my reference.
I know the OP isnt trying to get a 1995 911 RS CS to race. Porsches 911s and BMWs M3s have gotten better in the last 25 years.
LS V8 swap would be an option if you dont mind the big engine in a small car dynamic. A C6 Corvette is just a better platform for the LS in my opinion.
02-26-23, 03:40 PM
#17
Appreciate all the feedback in this thread.
Talked with some other shops and individuals and my tentative plan is to save for a new keg. Rebuild my current one with better core components and have a back up 13B.
I won't know exactly why my current engine is losing compression until I disassemble, but it was rebuilt by myself and ran hard when it really didn't have the full supporting mods it needed.
I was on the stock IC and thought the AI could alleviate some of the IAT issues, i think it prevented detonation but IATs were very high at times.
I swapped in the r1/r2 dual oil coolers but they really weren't sufficient for extended lapping and the larger core radiator was also just barely sufficient for additional heat loads.
the seals may be intact but perhaps the springs are just overheated and weak.
With the current v mount setup and dual 25 rows + AI, I saw much better Temps all around and the car seemed stable. I believe its sufficient for the hpde/track day hobby. Its not endurance or actual race car by any means.
I do believe a lot of the issues come when you push the car to more and more wheel power. 278 wheel (my current tune) is more than sufficient for me and I see how much more the car has to offer in terms of lap times. My current PB at buttonwillow dropped from a 2:05 to a 1:59 this season and the Garmin catalyst had my theoretical best at a 1:57. All on Federal tires and a driver who doesn't really know what he's doing! With some real 100tw tires, aero and some significant driver improvement, I think sub 1:55 is easily achievable on the current power level and suspension setup. I have thought about what another platform would feel like and I'm not sure if anything else can really match the raw 90s car experience. I spoiled other cars for myself by having my first track car be the FD.
So it's saving time and a little break from track. I'll be antsy and want to be out there driving but I'm telling myself it'll all be worth it in the end
Talked with some other shops and individuals and my tentative plan is to save for a new keg. Rebuild my current one with better core components and have a back up 13B.
I won't know exactly why my current engine is losing compression until I disassemble, but it was rebuilt by myself and ran hard when it really didn't have the full supporting mods it needed.
I was on the stock IC and thought the AI could alleviate some of the IAT issues, i think it prevented detonation but IATs were very high at times.
I swapped in the r1/r2 dual oil coolers but they really weren't sufficient for extended lapping and the larger core radiator was also just barely sufficient for additional heat loads.
the seals may be intact but perhaps the springs are just overheated and weak.
With the current v mount setup and dual 25 rows + AI, I saw much better Temps all around and the car seemed stable. I believe its sufficient for the hpde/track day hobby. Its not endurance or actual race car by any means.
I do believe a lot of the issues come when you push the car to more and more wheel power. 278 wheel (my current tune) is more than sufficient for me and I see how much more the car has to offer in terms of lap times. My current PB at buttonwillow dropped from a 2:05 to a 1:59 this season and the Garmin catalyst had my theoretical best at a 1:57. All on Federal tires and a driver who doesn't really know what he's doing! With some real 100tw tires, aero and some significant driver improvement, I think sub 1:55 is easily achievable on the current power level and suspension setup. I have thought about what another platform would feel like and I'm not sure if anything else can really match the raw 90s car experience. I spoiled other cars for myself by having my first track car be the FD.
So it's saving time and a little break from track. I'll be antsy and want to be out there driving but I'm telling myself it'll all be worth it in the end
02-28-23, 06:56 PM
#19
Rotor or no motor
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It all depends on the definition of reliable.
i mean my car has been super reliable motorwise. 10 straight years going strong and it sees several track days a year and several street driven miles and i dont baby it at all
while the motor has been strong, not all surrounding parts were capable for my power levels and i have had failures on those, hence the definition of reliable..
some
of my issues were
Transmission, clutch,diff, turbo,ecu had at some point failed but for the most part its been my fault and some were expected. Always running high boost (30 or so psi) on large turbos (efr9280 as one of my examples and my most recent turbo change) and its been running fine even with a power fc and most recently with a haltech elite.
so if you dont overdo it i dont see why the fd cant be a reliable track car or even a perfectly reliable street and track car;
or if you are planning on overdoing it be prepared that certain parts cannot hold the power
bottom line is. Build and tune the car properly and it will serve you just fine.
i know it’s easier said than done. Pick your engine builder and tuner wisely
i mean my car has been super reliable motorwise. 10 straight years going strong and it sees several track days a year and several street driven miles and i dont baby it at all
while the motor has been strong, not all surrounding parts were capable for my power levels and i have had failures on those, hence the definition of reliable..
some
of my issues were
Transmission, clutch,diff, turbo,ecu had at some point failed but for the most part its been my fault and some were expected. Always running high boost (30 or so psi) on large turbos (efr9280 as one of my examples and my most recent turbo change) and its been running fine even with a power fc and most recently with a haltech elite.
so if you dont overdo it i dont see why the fd cant be a reliable track car or even a perfectly reliable street and track car;
or if you are planning on overdoing it be prepared that certain parts cannot hold the power
bottom line is. Build and tune the car properly and it will serve you just fine.
i know it’s easier said than done. Pick your engine builder and tuner wisely
Last edited by R-R-Rx7; 03-01-23 at 05:13 AM.
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ATC529R (02-28-23)
03-01-23, 08:29 AM
#20
I drove a mild street port, TT RX7 to and from 3-5 events a year, towing a trailerette with wheels and tools, to tracks up to 6 hours away for 10 years, and always drove it home.
They keys are, how hungry for power are you, and how fast (hard) are you driving? Incremental increases in power (more boost, single turbo), mean exponential increases in heat and stress. Stuff starts breaking. Transmissions. Turbo shafts, etc.
The same is true at any given power level with you. The difference between running the same car doing 2:08 laps at VIR vs. 2:02 laps at VIR is massive in terms of increased throttle time, RPM, braking, heat, stress. Stuff will start breaking if you're going fast.
I started trailering the car right around the time I started going fast, and remarkable how much more frequently I was carting home an unhealthy car. At some point, you're really driving race car speeds not street/track day car speeds, and you need to build a race car and expect race car maintenance, consumables, and breakages. I'm still fighting that fight and kidding myself that it's a street/track car that runs a 2.00 lap at VIR or WGI.
They keys are, how hungry for power are you, and how fast (hard) are you driving? Incremental increases in power (more boost, single turbo), mean exponential increases in heat and stress. Stuff starts breaking. Transmissions. Turbo shafts, etc.
The same is true at any given power level with you. The difference between running the same car doing 2:08 laps at VIR vs. 2:02 laps at VIR is massive in terms of increased throttle time, RPM, braking, heat, stress. Stuff will start breaking if you're going fast.
I started trailering the car right around the time I started going fast, and remarkable how much more frequently I was carting home an unhealthy car. At some point, you're really driving race car speeds not street/track day car speeds, and you need to build a race car and expect race car maintenance, consumables, and breakages. I'm still fighting that fight and kidding myself that it's a street/track car that runs a 2.00 lap at VIR or WGI.
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03-01-23, 09:05 AM
#21
Ban Peak
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I drove a mild street port, TT RX7 to and from 3-5 events a year, towing a trailerette with wheels and tools, to tracks up to 6 hours away for 10 years, and always drove it home.
They keys are, how hungry for power are you, and how fast (hard) are you driving? Incremental increases in power (more boost, single turbo), mean exponential increases in heat and stress. Stuff starts breaking. Transmissions. Turbo shafts, etc.
The same is true at any given power level with you. The difference between running the same car doing 2:08 laps at VIR vs. 2:02 laps at VIR is massive in terms of increased throttle time, RPM, braking, heat, stress. Stuff will start breaking if you're going fast.
I started trailering the car right around the time I started going fast, and remarkable how much more frequently I was carting home an unhealthy car. At some point, you're really driving race car speeds not street/track day car speeds, and you need to build a race car and expect race car maintenance, consumables, and breakages. I'm still fighting that fight and kidding myself that it's a street/track car that runs a 2.00 lap at VIR or WGI.
They keys are, how hungry for power are you, and how fast (hard) are you driving? Incremental increases in power (more boost, single turbo), mean exponential increases in heat and stress. Stuff starts breaking. Transmissions. Turbo shafts, etc.
The same is true at any given power level with you. The difference between running the same car doing 2:08 laps at VIR vs. 2:02 laps at VIR is massive in terms of increased throttle time, RPM, braking, heat, stress. Stuff will start breaking if you're going fast.
I started trailering the car right around the time I started going fast, and remarkable how much more frequently I was carting home an unhealthy car. At some point, you're really driving race car speeds not street/track day car speeds, and you need to build a race car and expect race car maintenance, consumables, and breakages. I'm still fighting that fight and kidding myself that it's a street/track car that runs a 2.00 lap at VIR or WGI.
03-30-23, 12:50 PM
#22
A Rotary engine as well as ANY engine can be a "reliable" track car.
I BEAT on a 4 year old Streetport with a PowerFC while I was going through DE to get my Competition License in November of 2021. My first ever track day, the car had been in pieces weeks leading up to the event. My injectors were so clogged the RPM's wouldn't go beyond 5,000 RPM. I still drove the line and tried to make the best out of it. Sent the injectors off and the 1800cc Secondaries I had were flowing about 60cc. 1 year later I discovered the OEM fuel tank was rusting on the inside and was just sending trash through the fuel system. You couldn't even imagine how many times the car had been lean popped, detonated, overheated, etc. Again, a learning experience.
The constant battle of having a unique car, that no one has parts for, that no one knows about, that no one understands WHY would you even make your "unreliable roTURD" a race car... Makes the feeling of passing those "cookie cutter" built Honda's, BMW's, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc. SO surreal I cannot even describe it.
My question for you OP; What are your goals? Weekend Track days? Club Racing? Time Trials? Is it your daily? Do you want to put a Full-Cage or Roll-Bar in the car?
For reliability, It really boils down to you going through a checklist to ensure the car has a good bill of health and you go above and beyond in regards to preparation in comparison to something like a 200 mile cruise. I paint mark every important fastener, so I can easily check if something has loosened up or moved. I don't have to wait for a bolt to fall off to determine something came loose or I forgot to tighten it after wrenching on it the night before a track day.
A modern ECU is CRUCIAL, in my opinion, but only if you run the safety's. Limiting RPM if Coolant or Oil Temperatures/Pressures are above or below optimal temperatures. Fuel Pressure, AFR, etc, etc, etc.
I'm happy to give any advice from my experience.
I BEAT on a 4 year old Streetport with a PowerFC while I was going through DE to get my Competition License in November of 2021. My first ever track day, the car had been in pieces weeks leading up to the event. My injectors were so clogged the RPM's wouldn't go beyond 5,000 RPM. I still drove the line and tried to make the best out of it. Sent the injectors off and the 1800cc Secondaries I had were flowing about 60cc. 1 year later I discovered the OEM fuel tank was rusting on the inside and was just sending trash through the fuel system. You couldn't even imagine how many times the car had been lean popped, detonated, overheated, etc. Again, a learning experience.
The constant battle of having a unique car, that no one has parts for, that no one knows about, that no one understands WHY would you even make your "unreliable roTURD" a race car... Makes the feeling of passing those "cookie cutter" built Honda's, BMW's, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc. SO surreal I cannot even describe it.
My question for you OP; What are your goals? Weekend Track days? Club Racing? Time Trials? Is it your daily? Do you want to put a Full-Cage or Roll-Bar in the car?
For reliability, It really boils down to you going through a checklist to ensure the car has a good bill of health and you go above and beyond in regards to preparation in comparison to something like a 200 mile cruise. I paint mark every important fastener, so I can easily check if something has loosened up or moved. I don't have to wait for a bolt to fall off to determine something came loose or I forgot to tighten it after wrenching on it the night before a track day.
A modern ECU is CRUCIAL, in my opinion, but only if you run the safety's. Limiting RPM if Coolant or Oil Temperatures/Pressures are above or below optimal temperatures. Fuel Pressure, AFR, etc, etc, etc.
I'm happy to give any advice from my experience.
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SETaylor (03-30-23)
06-13-23, 09:31 PM
#23
@cstone94 I'd love to hear what reliability things you've done to keep that streetport going. As of the last track day (mid march) the engine finally gave out on mine.
I strongly considered a LS swap but have decided now on just dropping a fresh keg in with my exact same setup.
I really do think the lack of longevity on my current setup was from a bad base rebuild.
My goals are weekend track days. I don't plan on entering wheel to wheel and competitions, perhaps a couple track org time attack series but mainly I want to turn laps. Boiled down to numbers, I would love to to do around 10 track days in a year for at least 5 years on the new block. I think this rebuild lasted around 20 track days.
I was also considering a Haltech when my PowerFC popped randomly this season, but as you mentioned, it's only useful if I have the other sensor blocks in place to take advantage of the safeties. With everything combined, the price was prohibitive at the time. With the new block, I think I will go with the Haltech this time around
I strongly considered a LS swap but have decided now on just dropping a fresh keg in with my exact same setup.
I really do think the lack of longevity on my current setup was from a bad base rebuild.
My goals are weekend track days. I don't plan on entering wheel to wheel and competitions, perhaps a couple track org time attack series but mainly I want to turn laps. Boiled down to numbers, I would love to to do around 10 track days in a year for at least 5 years on the new block. I think this rebuild lasted around 20 track days.
I was also considering a Haltech when my PowerFC popped randomly this season, but as you mentioned, it's only useful if I have the other sensor blocks in place to take advantage of the safeties. With everything combined, the price was prohibitive at the time. With the new block, I think I will go with the Haltech this time around
06-14-23, 09:06 AM
#24
My current setup is a half-bridge with a lightened/balanced rotating assembly and Turblown Studs.
I have seen tons of LS's break at the race track, and there are tons of posts on the forum regarding how an LS upsets the dynamics of the FD Chassis. We won't get into that here.
The PowerFC is great, but YOU have to be watching all of the engine parameters. The Haltech just makes it dummy proof. Instead of you dicing it up on the track and having to Datalog the car in real time, your confidence behind the wheel will be tremendously increased in knowing the Haltech is doing it for you.
Now, I'm not saying the Haltech or any other standalone will be the "end-all be-all", "I never have to touch anything", blase blah. You still have to do your part on looking things over and ensuring what the Haltech cannot monitor, is in good condition. e.g.; oil levels, coolant levels, tightened fasteners, no leaks, etc.
Regarding the sensor blocks and add-ons. You can use factory sensors if you'd like, but in the grand scheme if the sensors on your car are original, they are ~30 years old now.
I just competed in the Hyperfest GT @ VIR and placed 3rd out of a 61 car field. The car never skipped a beat.
I hope you stick to a 13b, do you know what failed during your last track day?
I have seen tons of LS's break at the race track, and there are tons of posts on the forum regarding how an LS upsets the dynamics of the FD Chassis. We won't get into that here.
The PowerFC is great, but YOU have to be watching all of the engine parameters. The Haltech just makes it dummy proof. Instead of you dicing it up on the track and having to Datalog the car in real time, your confidence behind the wheel will be tremendously increased in knowing the Haltech is doing it for you.
Now, I'm not saying the Haltech or any other standalone will be the "end-all be-all", "I never have to touch anything", blase blah. You still have to do your part on looking things over and ensuring what the Haltech cannot monitor, is in good condition. e.g.; oil levels, coolant levels, tightened fasteners, no leaks, etc.
Regarding the sensor blocks and add-ons. You can use factory sensors if you'd like, but in the grand scheme if the sensors on your car are original, they are ~30 years old now.
I just competed in the Hyperfest GT @ VIR and placed 3rd out of a 61 car field. The car never skipped a beat.
I hope you stick to a 13b, do you know what failed during your last track day?
06-14-23, 04:16 PM
#25
I haven't done a post mortem yet.
Taking a look at my footage, I noticed my oil pressure dropping pretty drastically during cornering (on the stock gauge). I started running around 3/5 dipstick because the blow by was filling my Vibrant 1 liter in 1 session. Maybe not advisable now that I look at the footage, so perhaps a spun bearing?
Its been hard to get the activation energy to work on the car knowing its dead
Taking a look at my footage, I noticed my oil pressure dropping pretty drastically during cornering (on the stock gauge). I started running around 3/5 dipstick because the blow by was filling my Vibrant 1 liter in 1 session. Maybe not advisable now that I look at the footage, so perhaps a spun bearing?
Its been hard to get the activation energy to work on the car knowing its dead