I am trying to create a plan for participating in some autocross events with my 1990 GXL. Part of this plan includes a choice of tire.

I'm not sure how much money I want to invest in this hobby. I have only tried one day of autocross with this car. My tires took some damage on the outer shoulders (chipped tread blocks).

I have searched this section of the forum for information on tires, and I get the impression that the Hoosiers would be good for a pure autocross tire. I have read some reviews on Tire Rack on the Yokohama A032R tires, and they sound good also (possibly better in the wet).

I do not know much about the Toyo or Kumho tires.

 

I voted... Honestly, for a beginner, the Kumho is your best bet. The Estca replaced the V700 as a newer model, so the V700s will be harder to find this year from what I"ve been told

PaulC

 

None of those tires will be very good for dual purpose if that's what you're asking. For autocross only the Hoosiers and Kumhos dominate. Some say one grips one type of surface better than another or some work better when it's hot or cold. Bottom line is for a beginner Kumhos would most likely be a better choice. They're a bit cheaper and are harder to flat spot than Hoosiers. Lock a Hoosier and chances are it's ruined. Go with the V700 if you choose Kumho. Stickier, last as long and are alot lighter.

I've heard of people running the Toyo on the street and getting around 10k miles out of it. That ain't much but then again there are street tires that only last that long. I've only seen the Yok on a couple track cars never at an autox.

Chris

 

At first I thought I might like to find a tire for both general street and autocross use, but now I do not think I want that. I have a nearly new set of 205/60-15's on my stock 15 inch wheels that are good for general driving.

Also, this car is not a daily driver. I drive it at most once a week. I will be lucky to put 5k miles on it in a year's time. My RX-7 is my restoration project and self introduction to casual racing.

I guess that my poll is intended to ask "What tire for an autocross newbie?" rather than "What is the ultimate tire?" As far as I can tell, the Hoosiers are probably the stickiest and the favorite of experienced SCCA racers.

I also do not expect to be all that competitive as a novice, so I don't want to blow money on a tire that will perform far better than I am capable of driving it.

 

Look for Falken Azenia tires, if you can find them still. They have been all the rage in the street classes. If you can find them, they are somewhere in the $50 to $60 range, if I remember correctly.

db

 

I have used BFG's g-Force R1s and they are the greatest, I used them on track and parking lots. I know they are discountinued but besides that I don't know what to choose, as I heard Hoosier is the best but cost more and mixed reactions on Kumho and Toyo.

 

If you're serious about getting into auto-x, I would spend the first 6 months - 1 year on street tires. As a newbie, you probably won't see the benefit of R-compound tires until you're comfortable with the car at the limit and you're more attuned to what the right line is. But, it's your money and your car ... so do what you like.

As far as competition tires go, it's always the same:

Hoosiers - stickiest, poor treadlife, most expensive, suck in the rain
Kumhos - almost as sticky, lasts a lot longer, less expensive (arguably stickier on gravel surfaces), pretty good rain tire
Toyo RA1 - less sticky, lasts very long, about same price as Kumhos, also good rain tire
Yokohama A032 - between the V700 and the Toyo in stickiness, pretty good treadlife, slightly more expensive than Kumhos, good rain tire
BFG R1 - about as sticky as the V700, ok treadlife, expensive, also sucks in the rain

***disclaimer: I know there was one year that BFG had decided they were going to win in as many SoloII classes as possible .. so a SUPER sticky BFG R1 was sold. I heard they lasted about 2 events.

 

My original poll included both street and R compound tires (the Bridgestone PP S-03 in particular), but it was suggested that I expand the poll to include the Toyos and Kumhos and lose the Bridgestones.

If you were going to run on street tires, then what would you choose? --- a high end street tire, a good bang for the buck tire, the cheapest thing you could find???

---All opinions are welcome. I will not be buying tires for at least another month or so.

Also, I know that I did not drive "at the limit" during the single autocross that I did, but I was able to run a couple of times within 10 seconds of a 3rd gen RX-7 and within 16 seconds of the fastest time. However, most of the novices that had 6 or so months of experience were running 5 or 6 seconds faster than me.

What I know for sure is that it was the most fun I've ever had driving a car!

 

If you're going to buy a set of tires just for the events, I guess you should get the Kumhos. No sense in using up a set of street tires when you could be on R compounds. Know this though, you WILL, especially as a novice, use up your R compounds in one season or less.
I started as a novice on street tires and was WAY less than competitive (I'm no J Montoya). Then I got a used set of Victoracers from a fellow autocrosser who was getting new ones and I gained a couple seconds.
I've been told that the Hoosiers are stickier but less forgiving. They also can be shreadded quickly if you treat them badly (novices tend to be bad to their tires).

Good luck and let us know how you're doing!

Cory

 

You definitely want a UHP (Ultra High Performance) or MP (Max Performance) tire. Nothing else will do. If you're willing to splurge .... the Bridgestone S03's, Toyo Proxes T1-S's, BFG g-Force KD's (if they make them in your size), Yokohama AVS Sports. If you need a slightly more economical tire .... BFG g-Force KDW's, Firestone Firehawks, Bridgestone RE730's. Lastly, for the economical UHP tire .... Yokohama AVS ES100's, Sumitomo HTR ZII's, and the Kumho Ecsta 712's. Personally, I would run on MP tire, if I was forced to. But since I run alot of negative camber and toe out, I go through tires fairly quickly ... so I go with the bargain buys. In your case, I'd recommend the KDW's, Firehawks, or RE730's as a good starting point.

And, BTW, some clubs do NOT let you run R-compound tires in Novice class.

 

I'll have to check the rules for novices to see if R compound tires would be allowed for me.

Right now I'm still trying to decide whether to go for a sticky street tire or the Kumhos. I think that I am leaning toward spending less money now and then upgrading to competition tires for the following season if I decide to get heavily into autocross.

Thanks for the advice and information.

 

Up to this point I've been a Hoosier race tire guy... The Kumho V-700's are almost as good but need to be shaved...... If you have the cash the *NEW* Michelin Pilot Sport "cups" are the ****! They hook up so good it makes me smile.....and like the Hoosiers, there here today and gone tomorrow .... The BFG R1's are a good tire too, and being that Michelin owns BFG I'm willing to bet there are some simularities......

For the street tire class try the Falken FK 451's....they are awesome for the cash!!!

Brad

 

It has been awhile since the last post on this subject but thought I would add my .02

I agree with almost all that has been said except one thing. I ran my first season in SS on standard BFG radials (came with the car when I bought it) and learned alot. In Feb of 2002 I bought a set of extra wheels and mounted some shaved, heat cycled V700's from the TireRack. Went to one Evolution school and participated in 12 events last season and I have no reason to believe these tires won't make it thru this year as well. That's right two full seasons on a set of Kumhos.

Last year a guy that runs an S2000 ran his second year on his set and he drove to and from the events as well.

FWIW

Tomas
'94 TT SS#142

 

I used a set of Yokohama A008RSII.
Pretty damn good if you ask me.
But I don't think you can find them anymore.

 

I went to my first AutoX event ever a few months ago and my neighbor ran his '94 C2 Porsche. He had Bridgestone Potenza S-03's on his car (full tread depth) and produced some awesome lap times in the parking lot at Candlestick Stadium (in San Francisco). He was running better than 80% of the field on Hoosiers and Kumho's. Lap time was 1 minute and most were a few seconds behind him.

Get some good all around tires and build up your driving skills.

I just picked up some 17x8 TSW's with Toyo RA-1's from Carl Byck.... can't wait to try them out on the track and AutoX.

Thanks again Carl .

-Mark

 

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm going to stay with street tires for now. I'll probably upgrade to the S-03s before too long, and I'll keep the Kumhos & Hoosiers in mind for next year if I decide to go all out.

The first autocross of the season is the last sunday of this month (30 Mar 2003).

 

I have been autoxing for 10 years now ( mostly porsche's and RX'7) always in the same class A/sp

Kumho's are the stickyest, very close second are the Hoosiers, but expect 3 sets per year if you do alot of events for both tires. I now have switched to yokohama a008r's and they are on my second season. I save the kumho's for the national tour. I found I'm fast enough to win with the yoko's, but if you have the money and the class is competitive you need to have the kumho's or hoosiers.

forget about everything else.....

 

As far as solo II is conserned I would class the R compounds as follows:

Hoosier
Kuhmo
toyo
yoko

In our region, most competitors use ether the Toyo's or the yoko's due to their reasonalbly long thread life. The ones who REALLY want to win go for the kuhmo's or hoosiers.

The general consensus around here is that the yoko's do not heat up as quickly as the Ra-1. This is a great dissadvantage in solo II.

For high performance street tires the $$$ to stick ratio of the Falken azenis is hard to beat.

 

This shouldn't be a sticky ...