Can we get back on topic???

Sincerely,
Assface

 

Even though im not even involved in this mess ill voice my opinions/suggestions. It will prolly go over looked anyways.

Phil and Jason are both wrong in the ways they are handling this entire situation. I understand Phils side and I understand Jasons side. However i still see no justification for bringing BDC into the mix and calling his business skills "poor." This thread is starting to get full of so much **** that isnt even related to the initial topic its sickening. I am even going to admit that im contradicting myself when i say this thread is going off topic because i posted useless ****. If you guys have "beef" with one another take it into PM's and make it a personal matter, its just a suggestion. Phil i understand that your incredibly pissed but bashing Jason is going to do nothing on this forum. Honestly if i wanted stuff done by him i still would and i have had friends deal with him after all of this **** happened with you and they had ZERO problems. I also understand that you are angry about the un-intentional "name calling" that BDC was doing, but he is stating his facts that he knows about the situation with HIS opinion, is there justice in calling his business ethics "poor" come on. Hasnt there been a time where you heard a story and bash or name called them w/o hearing the other persons side.

Again, best of luck to everyone,

Charlie

 

I sincerely apologize charlies7 for those comments. I have absolutely no problem with you at all. Who i do have a problem with is XxMerlinxX. He shouldnt constantly follow Phil around and bash him on everything he posts. Last time he did that....he sent out somes threats...and got his *** a ban for it. Yes Phil is a personal friend of mine and i will goto bat for him. Facts are that Jason pretty much screwed Phil over by Phil being to damn nice....and now its coming back to bite him in the ***. I know if anyone of you were put in the same predicament as Phil....you'd be pretty pissed off as well. Hell...its like a $1000 hit Phils taking on this. Hell go look at what XxMerlinxX bitched and moaned about for a $64 din plate!
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=602363
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=650060

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on XxMerlinxX. He just needs to leave Phil alone considering he has no room to judge him by the way he's acted in the past against him and various other members on this forum.

 

LOL!!! OMG this dude's an idiot. I thought his issue was just shoddy work, but I see his problems extend far beyound his lack of craftsmanship...

 

Alright guys..

Here is my 1st response to BDC's comment... As I stated from the start, he needed to read the whole thread to understand what's been happening.. Its all in this thread, the lies jason made thru hundreds of emails he sent, several hour long phone calls I had, etc.. Its just not about the product but the whole package!

Here are several of BDC's response..

Again, I stated here that I did run a small business on this forum.. a long time ago when I was doing the tail light conversion.. only 1-2 people had issues and I resolved it right away... NOT 1.5 years!

Everything I have stated in past 2 days have are already on this forum.. Not only that actual emails, posts jason made on this very forum are on this thread. Just reading that you could clearly see contridiction Jason made. He says I didn't pay him but later on he says he recieved a payment, got the $400 worth of CF, $250 shift ****, Over $100 Defi gauge, etc... He confirmed recieving them and NOW he said provide him with reciept??

I'll tell you this, ANY GOOD SCAMMERS will be nice to you in person or over the internet! ITs what they do, why do you think I got sucked into this??? REALLY??

He calls this 2nd grader conduct?? Well, Obviously it fired up some of you quite a bit

Again, look at the pictures, see what I have lost (mainly 1.5 years of Jason wasting my time).

Here are the list of stuff I've bought and given him. Ordering parts for him, paying for all the shipping, at the end, i recieve 10 or so parts that are half *** done or completely ruined.



Of course, Brian see's Jason's NICELY converted interior pieces which if I had a customer who I **** up his stuff, first thing I would do is tell them, "I'm sending you my parts".. Instead, he DRAGGED it on for 1.5 years and sends me all the reject parts.. Instead, resolving the matter right away, he makes excuses after excuses, trying to pull some "switching door panel trick" and waits until all gets blown out of control! Even then First thing he does is threaten me with legal action?? RIGHT, I'm the person who's wrong here... LOL! AGAIN, All the facts are stated on here.. If I was a 2nd grader, i wouldn't of saved all the emails, pics he sent, or give up on this matter... If you know who I am, I don't let **** just pass by.. which most of you might do. If you cant handle the consequences, don't act like this. Plain and simple!

Hope now some of you understand??

And for those of you who know Jason personally, this about this and read what he said on this forum. I told him I'll be building a show car (go see My build thread), he agreed he will provide me with top notch work for FREE! Brian Cain already described here that Jason's workmanship was GREAT! So, Brian, look at the pics I've provided and think about what you saw. What do you think should of happened imidiately when stuff turned into this level?? Don't forget, at the end, I just wanted my parts back.. for over 6 months, I sent him emails after emails, phone calls, just trying to get my parts! I told him to STOP whatever he's doing and just send my parts! But he kept delaying and trying to get MORE MONEY from me! Hence IT WAS A SCAM!!!

 

Thank you Stephen!

Yes, SPO is a good friend of mine. When I first moved to this state, he was the first rotary guy I met and since then we became great friends.

Second, I didn't even ask him to read this thread nor ask him to defend me. To be honest, I been trying to get in touch with him for the past 3 weeks!!

To Jason Evans:

So, Am I BSing about this?? Do you want to make things right and send me what Brian Cain saw and send your nicely converted interior parts?? Or are you the guy I think who you are.. a loser, untrust worthy, low life **** who has no ethics of what business is... I want you to prove me wrong instead of making excuses! Let's see who's the man! Obviously this thread will never die! LOL!


To Brian Cain, I think you now know little more about my side of the story? Now you have seen some defective parts, painted tan panels, heard from those you've met in Bham, heard my side of the story, Jason's side of the story, and seen his nicely converted parts in his own car,.. So, what do you think Jason should do to correct this?? Am I asking too much when I asked he should replace the defective parts or send his personal parts??? Do you still think I'm a 2nd grader, arrogant, internet pitbull (which I like the title)??

What would you do? As Stephen stated, If someone send you a virgin engine to be ported and when the customer recieves it and sees its not their engine.. better yets, they recieves a blown up engine?? What would you do?? They complain in the matter I have here, do you think they have no rights to do so?? Do you think making your customer wait 1.5 years is a good practice?? Do you think not meeting the deadline and giving excuses is a good business practice??

 

Are there people calling brians business skills poor? Of all the horror stories I've seen on this board of rx7 builders ripping people off and the thousands they've lost due to these crappy engine builders I've yet to ever see one bad thing posted about BDC motorsports. I just got my motor rebuilt by him and my irons ported and he was there posting pictures every step of the way. There was never one time I felt his business skills lacked in any form. I was kept infomed of when my parts got to him, when my parts where being ported, when my parts where being put together and when the engine was done. So before anyone starts bringing brians rep into this you best just back off now cause you have no idea the top notch work he does. Yeah I might be kissin' his *** alittle right now but you would be too if you got the level of support, honesty and workmenship put into your motor.

pics of very very nice port job:

http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/Misc/CameronGates/

pics of rebuild:

http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/Misc/CameronGates_001/

lol, yeah I'm proud of my motor So I'm going to be posting these pics everywhere, haha.

 

Hondahater,

I've recieved emails and phone calls from people ever since BDC coming on here posting..

I'll be honest with you, and I said this before, I have heard good things from people I've known for years about BDC and how nice he is in person.. I've also heard from people complaining about his tune and built quality.. But over all, more positive than negative.

I also wished I've met him in person when he was in Bham. Unfortunately, I was out of town and was unable to meet him.. Who knows, I might of liked him better and if Brian heard myside of the story, he would of sided with me instead of backing some low life douche bag, Jason Evans..

But being said that, my only interaction I have so far is, BDC calling me 2 or so month ago trying to buy some housings and THIS thread! By this thread itself, I get the feeling that;
1. He doesn't give a damn about what he says (as a professional, in my work environment, I have to watch out what I say... as it could lead to huge consequences).
2. He's making assumptions with out fully understanding the issues.
3. The name calling from the very first post..
4. Stating he wouldn't do business with me because of this thread?? Doctors can't refuse seeing a patient because they don't like someone's attitude nor because of their views (again, I see that to be unprofessional and assuming I have ill relationship with all the vendors I've dealt with.. which is rediculous assumption as Stephen and others pointed out, I've don't quite of bit of business on here without any problems).

Maybe you might and someone else might, but hope you see that my interaction with him obviously doesnt lead me to believe he's so called, "professional".

Again, I stated from the start.. make your decision based on fact I've provided.. Jason hasn't provided any facts... Hope now BDC see that and hope he changes his mind. I think I'm a pretty reasonable guy but there are certain things I just don't deal with well..

 

I'm sure brian does have some people complaining as that is apart of business. You can't make everyone happy. I know even though I do good computer work I still have people that have changed from me to someone else for some reason or another, I don't sweat it and I move on. That being said I think brian's business should be left out as he is just siding with someone he knows to be differant than what is written on this thread (this has nothing to do with his business skills). Anyways maybe something we can do is this: Just get you and him posting in this thread alone. you bring up the first thing you have a problem with and he rebuttles and so and and so forth until we find out the truth Seems pretty simple and straight forward.

 

To a degree I agree.. I wished none of this happened.. I'm sure you, me, BDC, Douche bag, and whom ever reading this...

But since Brian assume about me and stated what he thought about me, I think I also have the right to assume about him thru what I have read. If you are telling me I don't have that right, then I would have to disagree with you...

And again, read this thread and you will see the truth... I've given Jason many times as I also know people make mistakes and need chance to correct it.. If you disagree that I have not given him that chance, please read again.. Just couple of post prior, I'm giving him a chance to still correct it..

Also, I respect you as you seem to be more professional and took more professional approach instead of harsh name calling and saying you wouldn't do business with me... Again, my point of why I acted the way I did with BDC..

 

Oh I don't think I was clear when I said you and him post only. I ment you and the guy that you say ripped you off. Anyways I know this is a long and complicated situation here and no one will ever know 100% what was talked about and agreed apon by both parties so we are all speculating here. I can tell you though that if I got some of those parts shown in the pics I wouldn't be very happy either. Anyways I don't think there is anything I can say that will sway the rx7 hords in either direction when reading this thread so I'm going to duck out now and hope for the best between both you guys. Good luck!

 

I think these pictures that Phil have posted need to be contextualized. I disagree with Mike; they don't speak for themselves 100%. We already know that this was a complex and seemingly-unfettered deal from the get-go and not a simple, "you pay me and I do work for you one-time" kind of thing.

At first blush, these pictures of Jason's work seem of lesser-than-satisfactory quality, but I beg to ask some questions:

- Are these pictures posted all of the parts or only those parts that had problems?
- Is Phil not posting pictures of the good work?
- Were these parts that Jason worked on paid for in any way?
- Were these returned prior to work being finished due to other, reasonable circumstances (such as Phil's having sent Jason way too many in the first place as well as lack of communication)
- Were any of these parts already broken or in less-than-adequate shape for CF work when they were initially received by Jason?
- Are these pictures, in an of themselves, with all other parts that may've had good work done on them, truly indicative of the quality of work that Jason can perform? In other words, in a normal type of deal circumstance where the transaction is simple and easy, is this what would normally come from Jason's hands?

It'd be real, real easy for someone to *just* post pictures, complain, leave out a bunch of details, then falsely accuse someone like Jason of being a "scammer". "Look at this trash I got from this guy! Don't buy from him!!" Yet, in truth, there could very easily be more to the story.

Brad, you asked a question yesterday that I didn't answer. You'd asked what Phil has to gain by posting this stuff up. In response, I'm not too sure that the question is that but rather, "what does Phil have to lose?" The answer to that is nothing. This goes back to what I initially wrote a couple of days ago when I compared and contrasted business people vs. customers. We as business people have everything to lose. It forces us to be careful in what we write. Consumers, like Phil however, have nothing to lose. They can say what they want because they don't have to bear a world of responsibility. They won't incur a potential loss of business like we will. Phil has nothing to lose here. This isn't about his gaining anything, either. In my opinion, based on his abusive conduct and his having displayed many things out-of-context, I think it's about his not wanting to take personal responsibility for his half of this already out-of-whack transaction. He can therefore turn the spotlight on Jason, go out of his way to demonise him, and then that'll make him feel better.

B

B

 

B,

You are right, it sure does make me feel better

And you are also right, I have nothing to loose because I already lost from this deal? Don't you agree??

Again, why don't you answer some of the questions I've asked and Stephen asked.

And you keep mentioning that I don't understand because you are a business and I'm the customer.. But weren't you the one who called me couple of months ago to buy some housing from me?? Didn't our roles change when you did that?? Seriously, I understand what it is to be a business person... I've done many transactions on this forum without a hitch! This include Group Buys or individual sales.

Also, did you look at the list of stuff I've given Jason?? LOL! I think that was a payment in its own.. If not, I would and he doesn't think so, please, return it back to me..

 

Brian, why are you so concerned about Phil and Jason's issue? This had absolutely nothing to do with you. I know you are more intellegent than to think you could intervene in a mud-slinging match and expect not to get some mud slung your way. Come on man, you've lived just as long as I have and should know what to expect from life's turbulence. Everything you have posted probably has come to everyone's mind and has since passed from their thoughts. All you're doing is digging up old drama. From what I could see, the issue between Phil and Jason had ceased and this thread had basically become a venting venue (or as some would say, posting their opinions) An argument is between 2 or more people. If no one posts anything to oppose Phil's opinion, then it's just that, his opinion. My uncle once told me only a fool can argue by himself and only a fool will argue with a fool. So where do you fall in this catagory, Brian? And since you are so business savvy, you should already know most people will form their own opinion from the way a person conducts business, not from what every Tom, Dick, or Harry may say. Brian, no hard feelings or anything against you, but I feel you should exit this topic before people form an opinion of the way you conduct business.

Also, you are correct, those pics don't speak for themselves 100%, acutally, if you see the parts in person, the pics DO HIS WORK JUSTICE. I don't know what business deal Phil and Jason came up with, but all I know the parts I saw with my beautiful brown eyes look like **** and anything procuced by a business that looks like ****, won't get my support. Sorry, but I had to post my OPINION because I want people to know the truth.

 

I beg to differ.

"Today, according to consulting giant McKinsey, about two-thirds of all economic activity in the US is influenced by shared opinions about a product, brand or service. But word of mouth as a marketing discipline is only just coming into its own, and the data indicate its best years are yet to come."

http://www.emarketer.com/Report.aspx?code=womm_dec05

 

I thought I read through everything, but one thing confused me...what the hell is up with that spray painted door? That's the only piece I'm missing

 

That is Phil's original "black" door panels. But i guess Jason thought...."hey....if i just spray paint these tan door panels black and return these instead....i bet Phil would never know!"

This is the part i dont get....how you gonna defend someone that does that? Seriously....how

 

I can not believe I have missed the resurrection of this...I am going to ramble a little bit.
I have talked to both guys. This problem will NEVER be resolved. Ever.
I actually think they both tried, to varying degrees, but it did not work.
I do not think an unhappy customer even if he is the head of the gap, President of the Alabama chapter, and one of the well known people in the rotary world, should be able to trash someone anytime he wants, but that is the way this forum works.
I wish a mod would just lock this thread, but I am sure the mud slingers will just create another one... I do not know why Phil wastes his time. Honestly, I don't. I would have thought cooler minds would prevail and this would just go away. I guess in the end he has made a choice, and that is his business. I do not like how Phil attacks anyone who wishes to take Jason's side, because as everyone knows, there are always 2 sides to every story. Clearly not "everyone" agrees with you Phil. Educated people, and other business owners, even after they read this thread, still do not. I wish you were o.k. with that. I feel that each time someone does stand up for Jason, you look for ways to try and hurt them or attack them, and that worries me. Honestly, those attacks hurt your image, which, without this thread is very good amongst rotary owners. If I am reading this right, you believe that he owes you around 1k. I think you have probably cost him 10x that number with this thread. I saw you selling some of the parts he sold you, which you did not pay for, did you get some of the money back with them? When is it time to call it even?
Lastly, I want to reiterate that I have had good experiences with all the business I have done with Jason. I may fly him in to carbon fiber the interior floors of my car, that is how much I like his work.
Best,
J

 

As BDC and mirabille mention, I love Jason's work. I got some work done from him and if funds permit, I would let him CF my whole car

As a side note, BDC is awesome in my book. Brian Cain is cool as hell and rocks
Mirabille, I bought from him a bumper before and again he is awesome.

I think sometimes we all need to take our losses and chill. This is my opinion and we all are entitled to our own so no flaming on me here.

 

You are partly right..

Jason overlayed the blk panels I sent him first 3 months... Had them for another year or so... saying he will finish them.. I said, just send it back unfinished, he sell them to someone else, paints the tan ones, then tries to pass them as blk panels.

 

So what would you have done if he had already overlaid them, but they weren't in good quality and he was trying to fix it? You still would've had door panels that were not what you originally gave him.


Well said.

 

Agreed most of the pieces I have seen are look like crap. I do think however a few are ok just need some wet sanding, which should have been done, and a few originals were returned.

At least they would have been done in CF and not painted to try and hide the wrong color panel. I would be more pissed that he tried to hide it from me by doing something stupid than just telling me straight up what happened. How would you feel if you sent your black car(a shell) off somewhere to have it repainted, and when you get it back you find out you have a different car(same miles, etc.) that was once red but is now black and when you look under the carpet/body you can tell it was not orginally black?? Same thing just on a smaller level.

 

Product, brand and service... strange I thought those were the key elements to conduct business.

 

Brian, this is what bothers me. I don't understand this. Does it matter if they were paid for or not? I mean if I told you that I was building a drag car and wanted you to tune and/or sponsor it for free and I told you that I would help get your name out there and help to gain you some exposure but after you tuned my car I couldn't even get the thing to the starting line...does it matter that I paid you or not? Wouldn't you want to fix the problem? If I had to sit on the sidelines and watch the race instead of participate because of your tune and you refused to take responsibility for it, it would be hard not to tell other racers to stay away from your tuning. You get me?

Actually a lot. Think of the DGRR event. What about all the sponsors. Do you think that any of them would want to sponsor this event if they thought that Phil himself was a "rip-off" type customer? I would think Phil stands a lot to loose by falsely accusing a small business guy for his/her work. I think all the vendors know that Phil is a great guy to do business with because he attracts people to the RX-7 Community who in return are the vendors customers. Why would anyone want a middleman that makes false accusations about work done on RX-7s?

I understand the role of Devil's Advocate but all of the above still doesn't matter to me as much as keeping parts that don't belong to you!

 

This is probably the worst statement defending a dishonest act I think I've ever read...