alemmons

iTrader: (14)

I know I saw this on here, but can't seem to find it again. To verify timing is right while using the PowerFC, do I disable the idle-ig cont, idle and check to see what the PowerFC is showing of IGL and IGT, then go out and check the lines on the engine to make sure they are lined up? Do I still need to jumper the wire as I did without the PFC? What should I be seeing on the PowerFC for IDL and IDT when idling?

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

If you are using the ISC to control idle with the three idle speeds set, then idle timing will not match the IGL/IGT tables.

If all idle speeds are set to 0000 which is manual idle control, then idle timing will match the IGL/IGT tables.

This and more in in my timing notes package if you join my tuning group.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If all you have is a Commander, you can turn off all accesories and disable Idle IG control in the etc. --> function select menu. Then go to monitor --> 2 channel. select IGL and IGT. Make sure they are at -5L and -20T. They won't change from -5L -20T unless your engine warms up enough for the electric fan trigger to come on. Use your timing light and verify that the Commander and the light agree.

The REW has a white timing mark but the CAS has a maintenance-free design that doesn't normally need to be checked or adjusted. The s4 and s5 FC engines have a yellow leading mark for -5L and a red trailing mark for -20T, and you can just rotate the CAS like you would if you had the stock ECU. Unlike checking the timing with the factory computer, the "TEN" test mode diagnostic pin in the FD diagnostic box and its FC equivalent (the FC initial set connector) won't do anything.

Ottoman

I've got a S5 harness and engine, running on an FD PFC.. with FD ignitor and coilpacks...

the car starts runs and idles.. A/Fs are ok

but the timing is WAY off... almost 90* on the crank kinda off

and no matter what i do with the Cas is does not bring it remotely close..

I don't understand how the car even starts and runs and idles and revs (upto about 3-4grand)


what the PFC is telling me and what the Pulley is telling me are completly different..

I've disabled IGN control and all that... but I can not get the timing marks even remotely close...

have I missed something?

bumpstart

rule out a crossed signal to a sensitive timing light by using a cheapo non inductive timing light on the L1 lead
( dont use it to set the timing,, just to confirm that the other light gets a crossed signal, indicating a bad lead or plug )
if you use a dial back timing light,, set the dial to zero

then check the wiring polarity at the timing pickups,, getting one or both back to front may well bring the timing issue you describe

finally,, when writing the map for the full load timing, be aware that there is natural drift with revs from the timing signal
and so whats written in the lookup table at high revs doesnt quite match what is happening in the bay
- this is due to zero crossover point for the Vr/reluctor signal logic is not perfect , and will not compensate for drift as revs increase

some older ECU platforms ( including this one ) are not immune to this and you make yourself aware and compensate in the map
-some of the latest and better platforms do have some scope to calibrate this out
- and or use hall effect or optic pickups and motronic wheels to get around the Vr timing shift
and also to circumvent the OEM reluctor sensitivities to RFI

Ottoman

so are u saying the timing light is wired wrong? or my ignition setup?

i tried the timing light both ways.. it doesn't even work if I swap it around..

bumpstart

both,, rule out that your timing light isn't getting a false signal
good ones in a noisy ( RFI ) environ are susceptible to it
if its a dial back type you must use it set on zero

to confirm the good light isn't being tricked
purchase a $20 cheapo light ( without inductive pickup )
it will never pickup the crossfire,, and give you a real L1 reading,, though smudged,, and not very bright due to the cheap lights type

it does however confirm that all the funny games is in the good light ( due to **** plugs or wires )
,, and not in the ignition settings

i have seen people chase mystery ignition issues only to find out its the timing light being too sensitive to all the other wires nearby


if the timing light measurement check as real,, then you should look at the ignition pickup wiring
as getting one or both or the trigger edge settings wrong amounts to large timing shifts
-invisible tooth , phase shift ,phase cancellation and phantom tooth are terms used to describe glitches to the timing counts because of incorrect attention to wiring polarities and to trigger edge settings

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I set timing on my engine with a 6 dollar harbor freight timing light and a 22 year old CAS harness. It sounds like you stabbed the CAS wrong so it's off a tooth.

The pfc has flaws but CAS signal problems are not common on either FC or FD engines.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

also, it's easier to install the CAS if you don't have power steering or if you loosen the nuts and back off the power steering pump for additonal clearance. As you drop the CAS in it tends to move a little bit with the power steering pump in the way, so it's easier to be off a tooth.

Ottoman

do u have to stab the CAS on a PFC with FC install?!?

That... I did not know...

its on a track car so theres no PS or A/C in the way
no acc at all infact..

reaching the cas is a piece of cake with nothing in the engine bay

arghx

iTrader: (3)

When I say "stab the CAS" I mean install it like stock. Just install it like you would install it on a completely stock engine. Line up the timing marks just like you would on a stock engine. The only difference is that you need to make sure the PFC reads a steady -5L -20T as you are checking timing. The only way to do that is to turn off idle IG control. Remember that the crank pulley and the crank pulley hub need to be from the same engine for the timing marks to be correct. Don't mix-and-match parts car stuff.

FYI the PFC doesn't change the CAS design. The FC CAS produces the same actual signal as the FD CAS but it works in a different way. It's installed like a distributor. It has twice the number of teeth and spins at half the rate as the FD CAS, which has a pickup wheel on the pulley. Just because the ignitor is controlled differently between the PFC and the stock FC ECU doesn't mean the CAS works any differently.

Ottoman

I stapped teh CAS over the weekend.. and it worked like a charm..

thanks for the suggestion.. base timing is ok now..

there is still ignition breakup over 4,500 and the engine shakes.. but that could merely be tuning issues.. (I hope)


appreciate the help