Power FC PowerFC - Multi-tasking at is best.
11-06-08, 10:42 PM
#1
PowerFC - Multi-tasking at is best.
Well welcome to my little brain storming session.
Well most of the people that are trying to make un-god like power from a FD normally go with another ecu then the PowerFC, why, because the PowerFC is a great ecu for the lite modded FC/FD. The real reason is that the PowerFc is limited in what it can really do. It will deliver fuel and spark great, but running a shift light, nitrous control, Aux injection, additional fuel injectors, built in WB, Ignition cut Rev/boost limit, 17psi+ stock and a few other things i cant think of, I think not!!!! (Well at least without some extra parts)
OK I have got that off my chest, now for the Idea.
Most people that want to run higher boost safely on pump gas (93) go with some sort of water/meth injection. Well this will add some more headache’s to your setup.
Pump, Injector/solenoid, tank, hard wired pressure activation switch. Also if you want a Aux injection system that can be programmed you will be adding somewhere in the 200 range and you still have to tune this system, this means more dyno/street runs to get it right.
Well i am thought up the best of ALL WORLDS.....
Use the PowerFc to control this system, and keep the injection at the magic ratio that i have been hearing about 10-15% (Depending on who you ask)
Most people that upgrade there secondary injectors go with a Peak/Hold Low Ohm type. Well you can go the resister way or the Injector driver to deal with the higher amp draw on the PowerFc injector driver circuit.
You all know witch way is the better choice, but I myself took the cheaper route with the Resister, not saying it doesn’t get the job done.
Well check this out
I am running 850/1600 = 4900cc/min, so at 15% water/meth that would mean 735cc/min, and if you add 2 injectors to the intake that would be about 365cc/min per rotor. Well I was thinking about using 4 injectors to make sure all air going into the motor was sprayed with the water/meth mixture for maximum cooling. So this would be about 185cc/min per runner.
Ok now to the good technical stuff, most of the injector drivers like the “FJO Low Impedance Fuel Injector Driver 149.99” have 4 channels of input/output, well if you are running the normal 550cc/min injectors for a good idle with the powerfc’s know flaw of only allowing the injector msec to go so low, or even if you are using the 850cc/min in the primary’s spot you have only two injectors that the Driver has to run, thus leaving 2 unused channels (or more on the other boxes AEM).
Ok now here is what you get to do with these two extra channels!!!
You again know that you need about 10-15% ratio, install the two/four water/meth injectors in the intake runners, and hook them into the Injector driver. If you are going to use two injectors just hook them into the driver like normal, but if you are going to use 4 injectors they HAVE TO BE HIGH OHM, and connect them in 2 parallel per channel.
Using High Ohm
So if you have a 14.9ohm injector X 2 injectors = 7.45ohms per channel or @ 12V = 1.61amps
Using Low Ohm
So if you have a 5.00ohm injector X 1 injectors = 5.00ohms per channel or @ 12V = 2.40amps
Ok so you know that it will not hurt the driver two injectors instead on one.
Now if you want to have the Aux injectors running only when the secondary come online, hook two channels to the front rotor secondary injector powerfc output and hook two channels to the rear rotor secondary injector powerfc output.
Make sure that when you hook the injectors up that you have the correct plug on the correct injector; if not then the aux injectors will fire at the wrong time.
Now if you want to have the Aux injectors running only above an XXpsi boost pressure then get a simple boost switch and wire it into a dual pole relay to keep the signal coming from the secondary injector signal from making it to the driver box, this way the injector driver will only send a signal to the injectors when that XXpsi boost pressure is present.
BUT the beauty of the system is that there is no tuning required really, when the injectors are running (Only on Secondary or Only above XXpsi) they will ALLWAYS be at the correct ratio.
Thus running more fuel will result in more aux and a perfect ratio.
OK my brain hurts, Let me know what you think.
Well most of the people that are trying to make un-god like power from a FD normally go with another ecu then the PowerFC, why, because the PowerFC is a great ecu for the lite modded FC/FD. The real reason is that the PowerFc is limited in what it can really do. It will deliver fuel and spark great, but running a shift light, nitrous control, Aux injection, additional fuel injectors, built in WB, Ignition cut Rev/boost limit, 17psi+ stock and a few other things i cant think of, I think not!!!! (Well at least without some extra parts)
OK I have got that off my chest, now for the Idea.
Most people that want to run higher boost safely on pump gas (93) go with some sort of water/meth injection. Well this will add some more headache’s to your setup.
Pump, Injector/solenoid, tank, hard wired pressure activation switch. Also if you want a Aux injection system that can be programmed you will be adding somewhere in the 200 range and you still have to tune this system, this means more dyno/street runs to get it right.
Well i am thought up the best of ALL WORLDS.....
Use the PowerFc to control this system, and keep the injection at the magic ratio that i have been hearing about 10-15% (Depending on who you ask)
Most people that upgrade there secondary injectors go with a Peak/Hold Low Ohm type. Well you can go the resister way or the Injector driver to deal with the higher amp draw on the PowerFc injector driver circuit.
You all know witch way is the better choice, but I myself took the cheaper route with the Resister, not saying it doesn’t get the job done.
Well check this out
I am running 850/1600 = 4900cc/min, so at 15% water/meth that would mean 735cc/min, and if you add 2 injectors to the intake that would be about 365cc/min per rotor. Well I was thinking about using 4 injectors to make sure all air going into the motor was sprayed with the water/meth mixture for maximum cooling. So this would be about 185cc/min per runner.
Ok now to the good technical stuff, most of the injector drivers like the “FJO Low Impedance Fuel Injector Driver 149.99” have 4 channels of input/output, well if you are running the normal 550cc/min injectors for a good idle with the powerfc’s know flaw of only allowing the injector msec to go so low, or even if you are using the 850cc/min in the primary’s spot you have only two injectors that the Driver has to run, thus leaving 2 unused channels (or more on the other boxes AEM).
Ok now here is what you get to do with these two extra channels!!!
You again know that you need about 10-15% ratio, install the two/four water/meth injectors in the intake runners, and hook them into the Injector driver. If you are going to use two injectors just hook them into the driver like normal, but if you are going to use 4 injectors they HAVE TO BE HIGH OHM, and connect them in 2 parallel per channel.
Using High Ohm
So if you have a 14.9ohm injector X 2 injectors = 7.45ohms per channel or @ 12V = 1.61amps
Using Low Ohm
So if you have a 5.00ohm injector X 1 injectors = 5.00ohms per channel or @ 12V = 2.40amps
Ok so you know that it will not hurt the driver two injectors instead on one.
Now if you want to have the Aux injectors running only when the secondary come online, hook two channels to the front rotor secondary injector powerfc output and hook two channels to the rear rotor secondary injector powerfc output.
Make sure that when you hook the injectors up that you have the correct plug on the correct injector; if not then the aux injectors will fire at the wrong time.
Now if you want to have the Aux injectors running only above an XXpsi boost pressure then get a simple boost switch and wire it into a dual pole relay to keep the signal coming from the secondary injector signal from making it to the driver box, this way the injector driver will only send a signal to the injectors when that XXpsi boost pressure is present.
BUT the beauty of the system is that there is no tuning required really, when the injectors are running (Only on Secondary or Only above XXpsi) they will ALLWAYS be at the correct ratio.
Thus running more fuel will result in more aux and a perfect ratio.
OK my brain hurts, Let me know what you think.
11-06-08, 11:09 PM
#2
wouldn't you need to ensure that the methanol injectors are running at the same pressure as the fuel injectors? That would require a fuel rail, a feed and return line, a pressure regulator with a vacuum source, and a good pump that would need to be switched on.
11-07-08, 02:25 AM
#3
looking for 82-83 corolla
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but to add on to this i personally have the GZ LIM and was tempting running all pri/sec inj in the manifold 4 port setup and then run the "extra" meth injectors in the primary spots. i was kinda hoping someone else would do this before i get back from my deployment just to give it a test but it seemed that people were more interested in the current setups than running something out of the ordinary.
z
11-07-08, 04:34 AM
#4
o.k. so arent you doing this anyway with a system like the fjo/aem/coolingmist/devilsown. just look at the people tunning in the methanol there are a couple and they are running 15-20% meth at 20+ psi. so you would need a couple different parts making the price difference between the setups basicly nill. now being you are still tunning to the same AFR as gas you now take out the variable of the 2nd "fuel" mapping with the HSS in the other kits getting better spray pattern from an actual injector. sure you need to run a second "fuel system" but arent you doing that anyway in a slightly different fashion.
but to add on to this i personally have the GZ LIM and was tempting running all pri/sec inj in the manifold 4 port setup and then run the "extra" meth injectors in the primary spots. i was kinda hoping someone else would do this before i get back from my deployment just to give it a test but it seemed that people were more interested in the current setups than running something out of the ordinary.
z
but to add on to this i personally have the GZ LIM and was tempting running all pri/sec inj in the manifold 4 port setup and then run the "extra" meth injectors in the primary spots. i was kinda hoping someone else would do this before i get back from my deployment just to give it a test but it seemed that people were more interested in the current setups than running something out of the ordinary.
z
Yes this is about the same as the other kits, I just like the idea that you don't have to tune another map, and if you make adjustments for changing conditions on the fly it will auto adjust.
I do like the idea of the injectors in the primary injector location, this will allow the highest pressure drop just about inside the motor for maximum cooling.
11-07-08, 12:37 PM
#6
If you use water & meth you still need to tune for the added meth ... meaning that you need to always spray the water/meth for the AFRs to be right.
I like the idea of using the GZ LIM for all four fuel injectors ... say bosch 720's and 1600's for pri/sec injectors. Then you have the stock primary fuel injector setup (rail and injectors) with stock 550's to use for your water meth system, and this ratio gives just above 20% which when running 50/50 water meths should give you an ideal water to fuel ratio at just over 10%. I have no idea if the stock injectors are compatible with water meth, but if they are all you need is a fuel cell, fuel pump, lines and regulator for the system and then use Chuck's method for injector driver and you are done.
I like the idea of using the GZ LIM for all four fuel injectors ... say bosch 720's and 1600's for pri/sec injectors. Then you have the stock primary fuel injector setup (rail and injectors) with stock 550's to use for your water meth system, and this ratio gives just above 20% which when running 50/50 water meths should give you an ideal water to fuel ratio at just over 10%. I have no idea if the stock injectors are compatible with water meth, but if they are all you need is a fuel cell, fuel pump, lines and regulator for the system and then use Chuck's method for injector driver and you are done.
11-07-08, 10:54 PM
#7
looking for 82-83 corolla
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when you do the 20% replacement in fuel its straight methanol...water dosent burn or id be running it in my car long ago. and yes you would "always" be running injection but i dont know about you but i dont cruise around in boost(current systems) or above 4500rpm(theory system). ya have to look at it kinda like boost you dont use it but maybe 10% of the time but its there for you when you need it.
z
z
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11-07-08, 11:00 PM
#8
looking for 82-83 corolla
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i know this has a little to do with the PFC but i think its more toward the AUX INJ. maybe we could get this combined/moved to there so we can actually get more of the target crowd for this setup? mods??
z
z
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