NoRice

1st, per the other notes, I bumped up my IDLE with the PFC. Then the next day it was back to the previous setting. How do you save it?

Also, I've noticed while driving the Commander will RESET. I mean like it loses Power. The screen goes back to the start up screen. This seems to relate to hesitations of the car (Very brief) and also seems to correspond to the Back Firing.

So, I am thinking a ground or something is loose. When I hit a bump, it Resets the PowerFC and causes extra unburnt gas to go into the exhaust. Then it starts back up and Boom, the extra gas in the exhaust ignites.

This started after I had Force Fed Industries install the Lightweight Flywheel and Clutch kit.

So, either they played with the PowerFC, left a wire loose somewhere, or accidently bumped something?

Any ideas where to start looking? I checked the battery terminals, they are tight.

Thanks in advance!

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

There are 4 connectors on the trans that are part of the main engine harness. They go to the ECU. Maybe they hosed them or did not connect them up.

Also, when they are R&R the bellhousing bolts, they have to get around the area between the intake manifold extension and firewall. Many wires and hoses there. Map sensor, TPS, ISC , etc.

Check it all out.

nocab72

NoRice - I can help you troubleshoot it, I'm here in Columbus, check your PM's.

k

NoRice

Tuesday the problem was so bad, I could not restart after it was up to normal operating temp. (When I arrived to work, it would not restart)

At then end of the day, I left and it started right away. However, I noticed the PowerFC was doing the Power Reset thing a LOT as I was driving out of the parking garage.

So, I took it back to Forced Fed. They tried a few things while I was there, jiggling wires, regrounded the PowerFC. No Luck, I left it there.

They played around with it all day Wednesday. Then they called some Rotary expert they know in Louisiana.

He said as far as being Hard to start when it is up to normal operating temp, he has seen that before after installing the lightweight flywheel. He said that the Apex seal must be badly worn and the compression is lower when the engine is warm. (So, it has more compression when cold in the morning and starts right up)

They said when the clutch was out, they could turn the engine by hand. They thought the compression was really low.

Well, I've been told that you can't put a manual tranny Rotary in gear to use as a brake on a slope. (No compression) I had recently tested this theory, I believe it was before the clutch job. The car would roll while in gear with the engine off on a slight slope. Does this sound normal?

How does this theory sound? I bought the car with 47k miles, it now has 61k

As far as the Commander doing the Power reset, they put it on the Dyno and were jiggling wires, etc. Trying to get it to do it. No luck, they also put it on a lift with the engine running, but could not get it to reset. If they took it around the parking lot, it would reset on them though.

One theory they had was when the tranny was out the engine moved a little and broke a wiring harness that was old and cracking anyway. But they haven't been able to jiggle anything to repeat the problem in the shop, only while driving.

They are going to work on it more tomorrow, but they really do not have any more ideas to look at.

ech

Get a compression test from a Mazda dealership, or someone who defineteley knows how to read compression on a rotary.

2 - sounds like a bad connection for sure - since in the parking lot you will be bouncing stuff around. Impossible to speculate on cause of bad connection.

NoRice

I picked the car up from the Force Fed on Monday. They could not figure it out and were out of ideas. They wondered about swapping out the ECU (PowerFC) with another or the stock ECU.

Drove the car home, almost made, it died out at the light about 1/2 mile from here. I barely got it started again. Tried to back into the driveway, it died again and would not start. (By the way, On the way home I never saw the commander resetting) I pushed it into the driveway. I noticed the water temp according to the commander was 84 C.

I tried adjusting the Cranking Inj Time on the PowerFC. +50 was 17.3, I bumped it to 24, no change. +80 was 12, I tried bumping it several times, trying to start it after each change, finally gave up at 50 then set it back to default of 12. (I verified these defaults with my NoCab's PFC tonight)

Ate dinner, went back out, Commander showed water temp of 65 C. Car basically started up right away.

Tonight NoCab came over with his 3rd Gen and PowerFC. My car wouldn't start at all tonight and the Display on the Commander was black, (This never has happened before) however the backlight on the Arrow Keys and Prev Next buttons was On. Strange

Plugged MY commander into his PFC, it worked just fine. Plugged MY PFC into his car, his car started up just fine. He then used the Datalogic to download my Maps to his laptop. (While it was in HIS car, the datalogit would not work when the ECU was in my car, just like the Commander wouldn't work) We compared his settings to mine. No real difference was found.

Put my old Stock ECU into my car, it still wouldn't start. Then my PFC back in, still No display on the Commander and it won't start. Doesn't even seem to be firing, just cranking.

At this point I believe something to do with the main wiring harness is bad. I plan on taking it to the local Mazda dealer. If that fails, I'll tow it to KDRotary in July!

Thanks,

zayrx7

Stop taking your car to force fed, they don't know how to work on rx7. It sounds like a grounding problem.
pm me and I can take a look at it if you want me too.
Also who install your pfc and did the wires get cut.

NoRice

I bought the PFC from SR Motorsports 1 year ago. I installed it myself.

ForceFed moved the ground wire to a new location. They noticed the stock ground wire on the bracket wasn't too good. When they wiggled it, there was something under the hood that would change. I mean it would make a noise, then the pitch of the noise would change.

FF and I have checked a lot of wires. No luck so far.

Before they ran the engine and wiggled wires to try to simulate the bumps, but could not get the problem to occur.

If you think you can find the bad wire, that would be great. Be warned, I'm pretty sure we have checked the obvious stuff.

Thanks,

SPOautos

Was the problem before or after they relocated the ground wire??? I assume your talking about the one coming off the upper intake manifold.

Were all of the connections on top of the tranny checked and found to be good tight connections??? You might want to inspect the wires real good and make sure they didnt pinch one to where its now exposing the wire and causing a ground. Its a tight space above the tranny and it wouldnt be very hard to pinch on of those wires hard enought to break thru the insulation.

Have you checked all your fuses down by the drivers side kickpanel and in the engine bay???

There is also a ground wire that comes off the battery, check it and make sure its nice and tight.

I know you checked the battery connections but what about the battery itself? People have experiences alot of wierd problems when thier voltage starts dropping. You might want to have you battery tested. At AutoZone they do a battery/electrical test thats pretty good. I THINK it also has a way of checking for ground issues.

Anyway, just a few thought off the top of my head

Good Luck,
STEPHEN

NoRice

Thanks,
Sam

Badog

Sam,

What is new with the car now?

If the car is still not starting, I wonder if it is flooded. Same thing happened to me late last year. Needed to do the ATF solution to get the car started.

Switching the PFC with Kyle is all well and good while the car is not working...to figure out if there is a simple problem with the PFC. But now you need to get the car started then try any other computer than yours, and see if the same behavior crops up then.

Put your stock computer in, and leave it in until you can get the car started. Sounds like symptoms of multiple problems.

NoRice

Dave at KD Rotary said with the stock ECU it should give some error codes. I have no way of getting them though. Dave also did not believe the engine was bad. And found it unlikely that the rear turbo was leaking. (Which is minor at this point)

I called Ricart Mazda, talked to Dan. He also did not believe the Low Compression theory. He said if anything it would be harder to start when Cold, not Hot.

Planned on having it towed in on Friday, but had to leave too early to get to Spiderman on time!

So, I had it towed after work tonight. It's at Ricart Mazda now, I'll let you know what happens!

NoRice

They just called, and thanks to the always Horrible Sprint PCS service, I could only hear a few words.

Basically they had their master mechanic look at it. But he couldn't/wouldn't diagnose it because of things that KDRotary removed for the Non-Seq mod.

They said they did get it started but it runs very bad.

I guess I will have to tow it to KD Rotary!

Really sorry I bought this car at this point. I did the Non-Seq because Ricart couldn't trouble shoot the Sequential turbo system. Now that the system is nice and simple, they still can't trouble shoot it!!!


Crap, Crap, Crap!

Badog

Sam,

You have another car you can drive? Check you PMs.

zayrx7

why don't you give me a pm to look at it before you ship it out. pm me

NoRice

The mechanic from the local Mazda dealer (that wouldn't work on the car) came over today.

The Commander would not light up. Also, we found there was No Spark and No Fuel.

Checked voltages at several points, checked wires. Still nothing was found. Pulled some fuses under the hood and replaced them. Pulled the main relay and replaced it.

Everything seem/tested Ok.

Tried starting the car again, it actually fired right up. We have no idea what wire or whatever was loose. Also, the Commander is displaying again.

Took it for a drive, ran good most of the time. It stalled out at one light but started again, although not easily, but not really that hard either.

Drove it home at that point, didn't want to push my luck. Went to back into the drive way and it died. It just would not start again. Although it did seem to be firing and the Commander was light up.

Question, if you are trying the start the car, and it's hard to start, will the Commander flicker at all? Mine seemed to be doing this, kind of flickering on the start up screen.

Tried a few more things, no luck.

Tried to do a compression test, but didn't have the correct adaptor. He will bring the right one next time.

Another question, while driving, I noticed the Boost gauge went to 16/17 lbs. This has NOT happened since July 2001 (6k miles ago) when I had KD Rotary set the PFC to 14Lbs. Before that time, when the car was stock with the downpipe and boost gauge, I would see 16 and 17 Lbs regularly.

I'm wondering if using the DataLogit/Logic? now that the car is running again would be any help with the stalling and No start when warm problems?

Any other ideas?

The mechanic is e-Mailing someone else he knows and also said he would read up on the shop manual looking for any ideas.

At least I actually got to drive it today!

Thanks again,

Badog

Sam,

I think Kyle came by with the Datalogit and looked at the settings? I think Kyle would have seen anything that was wacky with all the testing he has been doing.

With that addressed, the only thing that using the Datalogit would gain you, is some data logging. If you think that will help, PM me and we can setup a time.

Regards

nocab72

Tony - I pulled Sam's map and compared it to mine.
They were the same with the exception of a few things that we both knew would be different. Fan temps, rev limiter and my PIM Voltages. I think if a few of us gang up on his car we can have it running healthy again, no sense in shipping it 8 hrs away.

K

NoRice

I looked at:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/e...oting.html#STA

I found the following post that sounds fairly familiar, only it does not mention dying out when up to temp, but it IS a hard start when warm problem. I'm going to try this next:

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:42:20 +0000
From: "David Lane"

(David writes about a [1] or a [2], but this should probably apply to the [3] as well. --Steve)

A couple of things:

First, the layout of your electrical system:

Power for the starter comes from the positive terminal of the battery. The other end of the thick positive cable connects to the starter motor itself.

Power for the dash comes from a smaller wire that branches off the positive battery cable and goes to the "main" fusible link--part of five fusable links on the driver's side strut tower. You are getting dash lights so that is probably okay. If someday you don't get dash lights, clean the connections in the fusable link box.

Now, both circuits return to the battery negative side through the ground strap. This is attached to the negative battery terminal on one end. The other end is attached to the engine, and the middle is attached to the body, below where the fusible links are. Since you say you lose power to both the starter and the dash lights, the most likely culprit is the ground strap.

These ground straps corrode internally, so sometimes you can bend them a little and things will be okay for awhile. If you want to test it out before buying a new ground strap, carry a jumper cable with you. When you next have the problem, run the jumper from the negative battery terminal to an unpainted part of the body or to the engine. Try both. In effect, this will bypass the stock ground strap.

If the car starts with this tempory ground strap, order a new ground strap. Mazdatrix has them. You said you checked the battery terminals for cleanliness. Do the same for the other ends. You might also check to be sure the bare wires at each end of the main cables are not loose in the connectors.

If it doesn't fix the problem, and if you can manage it, remove the negative cable from the battery, run a jumper cable from the plus battery terminal to the starter motor (where the battery cable attaches. Looking at the motor from the rear it is the big terminal on the left side). Re-attach the negative cable and try to start the car. If it starts, the positive cable is at fault--either the end connections are not clean, or something internal is crudded up.

Most likely, you will find that the negative battery cable is the problem.

CAUTION: Do not work on the positive cable unless the negative cable is first disconnected from the battery. You could get significant sparks if the positive cable touches anything on the engine or body.

If you are in the mood to improve your electrical system, try the following:

Disconnect the battery. Disassemble and clean all contacts and connections in the fusable link box.

Run an extra ground wire (10 or 8 gauge) from an unpainted part of the body to the negative battery post.

Run an extra ground wire (same size) from the engine to the negative battery post. These two wires will improve electrical flow throughout the system. The standard Mazda wiring is marginal in that respect.

Run an extra wire (same size) from the alternator output (a screw terminal on the back) to the positive battery post. I understand from one of the gurus out there that it will make your alternator's life easier.

You might find it to be a cleaner installation if you use battery clips made to accommodate accessory wires. Auto sound shops have them.

When I did these things on my GSL-SE all sorts of little electrical anomalies associated with low voltage went away.

7at11

Damn, all my friends are offering help, wish I could too! But that's awfully nice of you guys, I hope you figure it out.

Badog

Sam,

I have extra cable from when I did the remote reloco of my battery. Couple of gauges, down to 1. You want to try testing any ground issues, let me know. I have time on Sunday early afternoon.

Regards

NoRice

I'm quite sure this isn't a PowerFC issue anymore, so I moved it.

By the way, I stopped by Home Depot tonight and bought some wire tonight.

See the latest here:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=82318