Power FC Power FC issue in 3rd gear
06-22-11, 07:42 AM
#1
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Power FC issue in 3rd gear
After owning the car for about 3 months I am noticing that it needs a tune. I am getting more on it and i have noticed that the car has a slight miss when I am cruising in low rpm in the city. It does not happen all the time, but enough to notice it.
It pulls pretty hard in 1st for being stock. 2nd it picks up but has some issues getting to redline. 3rd after 5K it pulls then falls back then pulls again ect until redline. 4th it starts to pull fine all the way and havent taken 5th to redline yet. LMAO
Could me having some issues with 3rd have anything to do with a tune? It is weird that is only happens in 3rd.
I have a map my buddy pulled off my ECU with hi Datalogit. If anyone can help me I can send it to them so they can see if there is anything they can see without digging to deep.
I would appreciate some help on this.
All my car has is the Apexi Power FC, the Apexi double intakes and full exhaust with no cats. Still running stock boost.
Thanks in advance,
It pulls pretty hard in 1st for being stock. 2nd it picks up but has some issues getting to redline. 3rd after 5K it pulls then falls back then pulls again ect until redline. 4th it starts to pull fine all the way and havent taken 5th to redline yet. LMAO
Could me having some issues with 3rd have anything to do with a tune? It is weird that is only happens in 3rd.
I have a map my buddy pulled off my ECU with hi Datalogit. If anyone can help me I can send it to them so they can see if there is anything they can see without digging to deep.
I would appreciate some help on this.
All my car has is the Apexi Power FC, the Apexi double intakes and full exhaust with no cats. Still running stock boost.
Thanks in advance,
06-22-11, 08:13 AM
#2
Since you have access to a Datalogit, can you take a few logs? Open the software and go to the Monitor window. Select the two options in the bottom right ONLY (don't check the other boxes or it will slow down the logging speed).
Take the following logs:
1) with a completely cold engine (engine has not been started yet), begin logging. Start the engine up. Let it idle until your cooling fans come on. When the fans come on save that log.
2) Begin another log of you backing out of your driveway and driving around, going part throttle boost through 1st 2nd and 3rd. Save the log. Should only be a couple minutes long.
3) Do 1 or 2 logs of a wide open throttle pull from 1st through 3rd, basically re creating the symptoms you have reported.
4) Do a separate log of you laying into each gear. So do a log of you flooring it in 1st, redline, clutch pedal in. Start another log and repeat for 2nd. Start another log and repeat for 3rd.
Zip up the logs and post them. If you can't take all those logs, at the very least do #3 in that list.
Take the following logs:
1) with a completely cold engine (engine has not been started yet), begin logging. Start the engine up. Let it idle until your cooling fans come on. When the fans come on save that log.
2) Begin another log of you backing out of your driveway and driving around, going part throttle boost through 1st 2nd and 3rd. Save the log. Should only be a couple minutes long.
3) Do 1 or 2 logs of a wide open throttle pull from 1st through 3rd, basically re creating the symptoms you have reported.
4) Do a separate log of you laying into each gear. So do a log of you flooring it in 1st, redline, clutch pedal in. Start another log and repeat for 2nd. Start another log and repeat for 3rd.
Zip up the logs and post them. If you can't take all those logs, at the very least do #3 in that list.
06-23-11, 03:08 PM
#4
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Since you have access to a Datalogit, can you take a few logs? Open the software and go to the Monitor window. Select the two options in the bottom right ONLY (don't check the other boxes or it will slow down the logging speed).
Take the following logs:
1) with a completely cold engine (engine has not been started yet), begin logging. Start the engine up. Let it idle until your cooling fans come on. When the fans come on save that log.
2) Begin another log of you backing out of your driveway and driving around, going part throttle boost through 1st 2nd and 3rd. Save the log. Should only be a couple minutes long.
3) Do 1 or 2 logs of a wide open throttle pull from 1st through 3rd, basically re creating the symptoms you have reported.
4) Do a separate log of you laying into each gear. So do a log of you flooring it in 1st, redline, clutch pedal in. Start another log and repeat for 2nd. Start another log and repeat for 3rd.
Zip up the logs and post them. If you can't take all those logs, at the very least do #3 in that list.
Take the following logs:
1) with a completely cold engine (engine has not been started yet), begin logging. Start the engine up. Let it idle until your cooling fans come on. When the fans come on save that log.
2) Begin another log of you backing out of your driveway and driving around, going part throttle boost through 1st 2nd and 3rd. Save the log. Should only be a couple minutes long.
3) Do 1 or 2 logs of a wide open throttle pull from 1st through 3rd, basically re creating the symptoms you have reported.
4) Do a separate log of you laying into each gear. So do a log of you flooring it in 1st, redline, clutch pedal in. Start another log and repeat for 2nd. Start another log and repeat for 3rd.
Zip up the logs and post them. If you can't take all those logs, at the very least do #3 in that list.
Yo homie I just did the files you asked for. Hope someone is able to help me with this.
Thanks in advance,
Last edited by mr2dude9161; 06-23-11 at 03:13 PM.
06-23-11, 10:59 PM
#5
This is actually a good topic for me to discuss in a tuning notes update for the group. Based on the logs provided the boost control needs tuning before transition. The precontrol duty cycle is oscillating significantly under all gears and throttle positions. See all attachments. 3rd gear pull:
-- PC% is your solenoid duty where 0 = 0% duty and 255 = 100% duty. WG% is wastegate. When the line on the graph looks maxed out that means the actuator is being held shut. When the line goes to 0 the actuator is fully open.
-- PIM is your boost, where 10000 is ~0psi and 20000 is around 14psi depending on altitude etc
--CCN is charge control solenoid and TCN is turbo control, where 0 = off and 1 = on. When the lines cross over you have reached a turbo transition point.
There are a few approaches to try. First thing I would do is try raising the boost setpoint on the primary. This will affect control of the precontrol solenoid duty. You have it set to .70 in your map, which is something I have recommended at times, but every engine is different. The Apex'i default value is .80 . Try values of .75 , .80, and .85 . You can do this on the Commander or with the Datalogit. If you use a Datalogit, take a log before you make each change and post them. That's the nice thing about PFC boost control: you get this kind of diagnosis capability, and the ability to adjust boost control before and after transition.
The other options are adjusting the baseline duty cycle or changing the turbo transition points. Hold off on that for now.
Another thing you should do is change your fan settings. They are coming on too early, before the thermostat opens. The ECU is still adding extra fuel for warmup and it is going to hurt fuel economy. Change all three values in settings 2 to anywhere from 86-90 degrees C.
-- PC% is your solenoid duty where 0 = 0% duty and 255 = 100% duty. WG% is wastegate. When the line on the graph looks maxed out that means the actuator is being held shut. When the line goes to 0 the actuator is fully open.
-- PIM is your boost, where 10000 is ~0psi and 20000 is around 14psi depending on altitude etc
--CCN is charge control solenoid and TCN is turbo control, where 0 = off and 1 = on. When the lines cross over you have reached a turbo transition point.
There are a few approaches to try. First thing I would do is try raising the boost setpoint on the primary. This will affect control of the precontrol solenoid duty. You have it set to .70 in your map, which is something I have recommended at times, but every engine is different. The Apex'i default value is .80 . Try values of .75 , .80, and .85 . You can do this on the Commander or with the Datalogit. If you use a Datalogit, take a log before you make each change and post them. That's the nice thing about PFC boost control: you get this kind of diagnosis capability, and the ability to adjust boost control before and after transition.
The other options are adjusting the baseline duty cycle or changing the turbo transition points. Hold off on that for now.
Another thing you should do is change your fan settings. They are coming on too early, before the thermostat opens. The ECU is still adding extra fuel for warmup and it is going to hurt fuel economy. Change all three values in settings 2 to anywhere from 86-90 degrees C.
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06-24-11, 11:01 AM
#10
Passenger
Posts: n/a
I made the changes you said. At .75 second seems stronger but 3rd still has issues. At .80 i didnt try second, but third pulled better but i think it is because it spiked to 15 PSI.
Still same problem. You dont think this has anything to do with adjusting the Air fuel mixture or adjusting the MAP?
Still same problem. You dont think this has anything to do with adjusting the Air fuel mixture or adjusting the MAP?
06-24-11, 11:58 AM
#11
There's a couple things here. First, in the log with the .75 setting you're not actually WOT until 4500-5000rpm which is after the transition point. So that makes it harder to figure out what's going on when you are only running on the primary turbo. See the green TPS V line at the bottom.
Your boost is pretty steady here (no sign of creep problems) after transition but you laid into it late it's hard to tell what's going on. And you were running on the primary turbo for so little time I don't know what's what with the .75 setting. I understand you didn't want to just go out there and immediately slam on it because it didn't seem like a smart/safe thing to do.
To me, this log is pretty telling. The PFC is struggling to contain overboost after the secondary transition. Duty is dropping down to 25%. See the dark blue WG% line? The boost settings for primary turbo operation may just need some tweaking but you ultimately need to address a mechanical boost control problem. You need to increase your exhaust restriction (high flow cat at least) or port the wastegate.
Those setting adjustments I told you to try (.75 and .80) may have increased the overboost a little bit because things were so unstable at the .70 setting. No amount of tweaking any boost controller will help this. It's commonly accepted wisdom that catless exhaust = boost creep without a ported wastegate.
So here's what I recommend. Go back to the .70 setting for now, which is what you were at before. Go port your wastegate and then you can go back to adjusting the boost controller later.
Your boost is pretty steady here (no sign of creep problems) after transition but you laid into it late it's hard to tell what's going on. And you were running on the primary turbo for so little time I don't know what's what with the .75 setting. I understand you didn't want to just go out there and immediately slam on it because it didn't seem like a smart/safe thing to do.
To me, this log is pretty telling. The PFC is struggling to contain overboost after the secondary transition. Duty is dropping down to 25%. See the dark blue WG% line? The boost settings for primary turbo operation may just need some tweaking but you ultimately need to address a mechanical boost control problem. You need to increase your exhaust restriction (high flow cat at least) or port the wastegate.
Those setting adjustments I told you to try (.75 and .80) may have increased the overboost a little bit because things were so unstable at the .70 setting. No amount of tweaking any boost controller will help this. It's commonly accepted wisdom that catless exhaust = boost creep without a ported wastegate.
So here's what I recommend. Go back to the .70 setting for now, which is what you were at before. Go port your wastegate and then you can go back to adjusting the boost controller later.
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