Power FC pfc idle problem looong
05-16-04 | 07:18 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
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From: ENGLAND, UK
pfc idle problem looong
Hi chaps,
Hopefully jspec, igy, dragon or any other other pfc guru's on here can help.
I thinks it's best if I start by listing my mods.
I have a large extended port hks to4r single turbo kit fd. b&m igntion amp, aftermarket ht leads, trust 3 core fmic with custom piping, underdrive pulley kit,
ported upper & lower intake manifold, 2 additional injectors welded into underside of upper intake manifold controlled by hks additional injector controller, apexi fuel pump stock injectors and stock fuel press regulator, pfc & datalogit.
I have a host of other mods but I think these are the main relevant ones
The car has approx 3,000 miles on new engine. I was running the engine in with stock ecu for first 1800 miles approx then with pfc since. When running in with stock ecu idle was fine no bouncing or fluctuation, I changed to the apexi again no problems till one day it was baking hot I was istting in traffic for ages parked up and disconnected negative terminal on the battery as I have a constant drain on the battery with ignition off and will kill battery after a couple of days.
Came back to the car a few hours later, hooked up the battery and idle would bounce between 800 - 1500 rpm I thought no problem it's just relearning but it's been a month now and still has not relearned. When car is cold it's fine when it warms up idle bounces, while this is happening when looking on my commander the inj cycle jumps from say 9% to 0% every once in a while it will idle ok then just start bouncing again. I read jspec's remedy for this and tried it but didn't work.
I don't have a boost leak not that I can find anyway. I have tried upping the inj amount under water temp correction map the car runs richer but still does cure idle issue. I have added more fuel to idle map still no good. It was suggested to me that maybe it's too rich and ecu is trying to lean mixture out so I have leaned out the idle map still no change. If I blip the throttle it will idle ok but at like 1700 - 1800 rpm anything less than this it back to square one again. car goes to rolling road on the 19th to be tuned in prep for a drag competition we have at the end of May but ideally I would like to get it idling right too. Looking at the bouning idle on map trace it just jumps in a rythm between different boxes. The car pulls very strong there is no issue with performance only bouncing idle when warm.
Are there any ideas you may have that I could try would appreciate any help.
I'm kind of new to the datalogit as I have recently purchased it and am awaiting access to the datalogit group so can't ask there yet.
Sorry forgot to add I have colder rated plugs also can't even remeber now I think
10.5's and 9's or 11's and 9's
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
Hopefully jspec, igy, dragon or any other other pfc guru's on here can help.
I thinks it's best if I start by listing my mods.
I have a large extended port hks to4r single turbo kit fd. b&m igntion amp, aftermarket ht leads, trust 3 core fmic with custom piping, underdrive pulley kit,
ported upper & lower intake manifold, 2 additional injectors welded into underside of upper intake manifold controlled by hks additional injector controller, apexi fuel pump stock injectors and stock fuel press regulator, pfc & datalogit.
I have a host of other mods but I think these are the main relevant ones
The car has approx 3,000 miles on new engine. I was running the engine in with stock ecu for first 1800 miles approx then with pfc since. When running in with stock ecu idle was fine no bouncing or fluctuation, I changed to the apexi again no problems till one day it was baking hot I was istting in traffic for ages parked up and disconnected negative terminal on the battery as I have a constant drain on the battery with ignition off and will kill battery after a couple of days.
Came back to the car a few hours later, hooked up the battery and idle would bounce between 800 - 1500 rpm I thought no problem it's just relearning but it's been a month now and still has not relearned. When car is cold it's fine when it warms up idle bounces, while this is happening when looking on my commander the inj cycle jumps from say 9% to 0% every once in a while it will idle ok then just start bouncing again. I read jspec's remedy for this and tried it but didn't work.
I don't have a boost leak not that I can find anyway. I have tried upping the inj amount under water temp correction map the car runs richer but still does cure idle issue. I have added more fuel to idle map still no good. It was suggested to me that maybe it's too rich and ecu is trying to lean mixture out so I have leaned out the idle map still no change. If I blip the throttle it will idle ok but at like 1700 - 1800 rpm anything less than this it back to square one again. car goes to rolling road on the 19th to be tuned in prep for a drag competition we have at the end of May but ideally I would like to get it idling right too. Looking at the bouning idle on map trace it just jumps in a rythm between different boxes. The car pulls very strong there is no issue with performance only bouncing idle when warm.
Are there any ideas you may have that I could try would appreciate any help.
I'm kind of new to the datalogit as I have recently purchased it and am awaiting access to the datalogit group so can't ask there yet.
Sorry forgot to add I have colder rated plugs also can't even remeber now I think
10.5's and 9's or 11's and 9's
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
05-16-04 | 01:59 PM
#2
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: ENGLAND, UK
I just been out for a drive and one thing I do notice when engine idle is stable at 1700 rpm the pim voltage is like 1.5 when it starts hunting the pim shows 1.8 or 1.9
does this have any significance
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
does this have any significance
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
05-16-04 | 02:05 PM
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale, CA
check if you have vacuum leak. if you car idle at anything above 800-900rpm, you have a vacuum leak.
Since you have PFC, check on the switch/sensor screen to see if E/L or AC is on. if E/L is on, make sure all lights are off, including radio, interior lights, etc. If it stays on, that means your PFC think that there is an electrical load somewhere. It could be you did not clip the wires correctly.
Don't bother with idle for E/L and AC yet. Just get your basic idle correct.
Oh yea, the radiator fans counts as E/L
Since you have PFC, check on the switch/sensor screen to see if E/L or AC is on. if E/L is on, make sure all lights are off, including radio, interior lights, etc. If it stays on, that means your PFC think that there is an electrical load somewhere. It could be you did not clip the wires correctly.
Don't bother with idle for E/L and AC yet. Just get your basic idle correct.
Oh yea, the radiator fans counts as E/L
05-16-04 | 05:21 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: ENGLAND, UK
Cheers Reza,
there is no vacuum leak but I will check sensors on pfc tomorrow.
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
there is no vacuum leak but I will check sensors on pfc tomorrow.
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
05-16-04 | 08:21 PM
#6
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale, CA
well..how do you know there is no vacuum leak.
if the idle is high, that means the engine gets more air than it suppose to....thus the idle goes higher....
have you check your idle screws? maybe they are set too high...
if the idle is high, that means the engine gets more air than it suppose to....thus the idle goes higher....
have you check your idle screws? maybe they are set too high...
05-16-04 | 10:06 PM
#7
I have the same exact problem. When the car is cold, it runs and idles fine, once the temp goes above 80 deg it starts to flucuate between 1000-1500 rpm. If I let it idle for a minute or so it will go away and idle perfect at about 800 rpm. If I touch the gas, it will do it again. Any suggestions? I have serached and havn't found any solid answers.
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05-16-04 | 11:06 PM
#8
NYC's Loudest FD
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
I've said this time and time again, and it seems that no one understands that with a PFC when you have a ported motor, the idle map will fall under a different vaccum at idle, this is what is causing the fluctuation of idle, the ONLY way to correct this is NOT by the idle screw, or any supposed "learning" that the PFC must do. The ONLY way to correct this is to TUNE YOUR CAR PROPERLY in the ranges of where this is happening with the Datalogit, END OF STORY!
05-17-04 | 02:24 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: ENGLAND, UK
Originally posted by RX794
I've said this time and time again, and it seems that no one understands that with a PFC when you have a ported motor, the idle map will fall under a different vaccum at idle, this is what is causing the fluctuation of idle, the ONLY way to correct this is NOT by the idle screw, or any supposed "learning" that the PFC must do. The ONLY way to correct this is to TUNE YOUR CAR PROPERLY in the ranges of where this is happening with the Datalogit, END OF STORY!
I've said this time and time again, and it seems that no one understands that with a PFC when you have a ported motor, the idle map will fall under a different vaccum at idle, this is what is causing the fluctuation of idle, the ONLY way to correct this is NOT by the idle screw, or any supposed "learning" that the PFC must do. The ONLY way to correct this is to TUNE YOUR CAR PROPERLY in the ranges of where this is happening with the Datalogit, END OF STORY!
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
05-17-04 | 05:34 AM
#11
This info is old, but, you can disconnect the ISC and set idle manually. Works great for my streetport. I also adjusted the fuel in all cells that may be used to idle to be very close. This prevents large fluctuations in fuel due to small changes in vacuum or rpm and stabilizes the idle.
This last part might be what RX794 is talking about, otherwise, I have no idea what was meant by "tuning".
This last part might be what RX794 is talking about, otherwise, I have no idea what was meant by "tuning".
05-17-04 | 06:21 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: ENGLAND, UK
Thanks twokrx7
That's good info mate. Hopefully I'll get to the bottom of this later on today.
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
That's good info mate. Hopefully I'll get to the bottom of this later on today.
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
05-17-04 | 04:41 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: ENGLAND, UK
Right thanks to all those who contributed to this thread.
I finally fixed the idel problem this evening.
I reset the ecu downloaded the map again it was better but idling to high after a few minutes it started hunting again but not as bad as before. I turned the idle srcew back and it idled normal I turned it down some more it started surging aain I kept turning it down and it stopped suring again. I I turned it back up and it surged.
It seem s that it will idle correctly at certain rpm via the screw adjuster on throttle body and at other rpm settings it won't? who cares atleast it's fixed.
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
I finally fixed the idel problem this evening.
I reset the ecu downloaded the map again it was better but idling to high after a few minutes it started hunting again but not as bad as before. I turned the idle srcew back and it idled normal I turned it down some more it started surging aain I kept turning it down and it stopped suring again. I I turned it back up and it surged.
It seem s that it will idle correctly at certain rpm via the screw adjuster on throttle body and at other rpm settings it won't? who cares atleast it's fixed.
rgds
Contact: BRIAN ELLIS
WEBSITE: WWW.ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
EMAIL: INFO@ROTARYIMPORTS.COM
TEL: 07950-693-616
FAX: 0208-405-9580
Unit 5 Carewell Farm
St Piers Lane
Lingfield
Surrey
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