ok here is the deal, i'm borrowing these things from a buddy of mine, and i'm having problems with them communicating correctly. my wide band is working fine, but when i plug it into the datalogit, i'm getting skewed readings. I.E., the numbers don't match.

I'm using the innovative WB and have the red wire plugged into AN1 and the white plugged into AN2. brown wire is doing nothing.

In FC Edit, i have my aux settings as follows: AN1-AN2 set to 0-5 volts, and AFR values set from 9-20. am i missing something? or do i have something set up wrong? it was working fine when he was using it, but his computer is broken, so we had to re set it up on my computer, and now we can't get the right readings, so datalogging the runs are much more of a PITA.

 

red - 12v fused
yellow - AN1
White and Green - AN2

 

Did you set LM1 programmer to the same values as the DL?
IIRC LM1 default is set to 10-20 AFR

edit* 10-20
just checked

 

Reload the Innovate software onto your laptop and check the LM-1 setup via its supplied serial cable.

The grounded electrical resistance differentials between the LM-1 and the Datalogit box is causing the readings discrepancies. Try 0v = 9.5 / 5v = 19.5 or 9.4 & 19.4, etc.

I had this problem until I installed a new engine wiring main harness - problem gone.

 

That's why they tell you to ground at the same location as the ECU ground.

Are you using the LM-1 or LC-1?

I'm assuming LC-1 so you want Yellow and Brown as AN2 and AN1. By default, the yellow wire is a NB output, only 0-1v. Second to that, AN1 by default on the FC Edit side I believe is a WB input, but you need to tell it what the low and high values are. 0v = 7.35 and 5v= 22.39.

 

I don't see the usefulness of LC-1's lack of display. I use LM-1; its white wire connects into FC Box AN1, its red wire connects into AN2, and it's grounded at the P-FC. How did your arrive at "7.35" and "22.39" AFR gasoline values?

 

This is based on what the LC-1 is configured for. By default it's gasoline and those are the AFR low and high values. 0V (or there about) should register as pig rich and vice versa.

If you don't need a display and are only concerned about logging, the LC-1 works great since you can obviously tie it to your ECU (in most cases). The XD-1 is also quite a nice display, especially for matching the interior theme with the added bonus of configuring the sweeping bar.

See page 14 of the manual.

Looking at the LM-1, I see that the second output is between 1-2v (10-20 AFR) so adjust FC Edit accordingly.

 

As per page 14, we check "use air-fuel-ratio" and to define and program the LM-1's parameters 0v at AFR 10 and 5v at AFR 20; this coincides with FC Edit AFR voltage definitions in Aux. We don't use lambda.

Having redundant numeric displays from LM-1 box and Datalogit AFR Watch on laptop is invaluable towards maintaining WBO2 accuracy and guarding against invalid data.

 

Yeah...there are differences there. I was referring to page 14 of the LC-1 manual then went on to say something about the LM-1. Sorry for the confusion.

 

what would you guys recommend. the lc-1 or the lm-1? seems the lm-1 is just over kill am i wrong?

 

Sorry for being off topic a little. I have the LC-1, and can you still get an accurate reading if the sensor is plugged in when you do a free air calibration? I accidently recalibrate my free air when my sensor is already plugged in, and now my reading is slightly richer than normal..

 

What makes the LM-1 "just overkill"? It is simple, it works, and it is incredibly inexpensive! You can WBO2 tune with just a Commander.

The guys with LC-1 are uber-screwed; they cannot verify their "over-processed" WBO2 signal as it travels thru the FC Box and their laptop - BTW, the Datalogit WBO2 watch lags significantly behind the instantaneous WBO2 display of the LM-1.

Rotorypolo - page 17 of the LM-1 manual describes how to do a free-air calibration w/o removing the sensor. Perhaps that procedure doesn't carry over to the LC-1. http://innovatemotorsports.com/support.php

 

Can you elaborate on the uber part? Where's the lag from. The datalogit itself? The ECU processing it? Or the display that you eventually see or a combo of all of it?

They seemed pretty right on compared to the gauge though since I can't split my eyes I can't see if they're reading the same thing at exactly the same time.

 

The LM-1 box displays more 1.5 - 2x more readings than the Datalogit WBO2 watch on my laptop, which displays the same WB readings at a slower rate of about 27/sec. That rate slows to 9 - 11/sec. when logging "Basic" and "Advanced" on top of WBO2. Barry Bordes' (aka lynn bordes), another local 7 owner with "super tuner" knowledge and experience and LM-1 and a Dell 700M - has the same datalogging setup as I have and experiences the same logging rates. Chuck Westbrook uses the PLX 300 and has discussed and shared his findings of the relative slowness of Datalogit against a WBO2 display/controller box. Datalogit is only so fast and it is definitely slower than a direct WBO2 display.

We've found two separate AEM WBO2 gauge setups to have lag and to be not as quick as LM-1.

I list my computer specs in my garage.

I cannot understand why someone would even consider purchasing the LC-1 when the LM-1/XD-1(6) is so much better.

 

What about the LC-1 with the XD-1 which is my setup (in addition to connecting to the datalogit). You mention that running it through the datalogit introduces delay when logging. Understandable, but if not logging, how is 27/sec too slow? Movie framerates are slower than that, so what are you expecting to see?

Since you're not going to process that info that quickly, especially when tuning, where's the disadvantage?

For easy math, let's take that 27 readings/sec and multiply that by the 1.5 time increase in speed which is [rounded to] 40. So every 1/10 sec you're getting 4 readings on the LM-1 controller. Who's ever going to tune to what the car is doing within...even a half a second? It's all about averages.

Just to be clear, I'm playing devil's advocate so...

 

I recommend that mono4lamar and rotarypolo to buy the LM-1 so that the all-important datalogged AFR values can be determined to be accurate and validated by the controller box (or made to be accurate and valid with meaningful offset changes); I can't say it any plainer. Running an XD-1 with a LC-1 is not the same as running only the LC-1, so I don't understand what you're asking.

One must spend time with Datalogit logs in their chart (notepad) format as well as in Map Watch/Chart formats. AFR and knock values along the load rows have to be scrutinized closely which is something that cannot be done on the fly.

So I have to ask, "What is your acceptable minimum of datalogging resolution?"

 

You made a comment against the LC-1...twice...making it look like an inferior product. I'm not endorsing in per se, but just wondering why we're "uber-screwed."

We only have a 20X20 map. How many different variables are you looking to get for one particular cell?

Because the LC-1 is $150 cheaper than the LM-1. The LM-1 is only sampling at 12x/sec anyway while logging according to Innovate so you're not gaining anything IMHO. In addition, according to Innovate, the LC-1 is just a consolodated package. It's doing the exact same thing as the LM-1.

 

And the point of having an LC-1 is what besides saving $150 and to be left in the dark regarding offset corrections?

 

I haven't played with offsets. Are you referring to the ground offsets?

 

FC-Edit main > Setup > Auxillary > Setup Auxiliaries > AN1 Name = Wide Band > Volts 0= Value 10, Unit=A/F & Volts 5= Value 10.

I changed mine to Volts 0= Value 9 & Volts 5= Value 19 to equalize LM-1 display/ WBO2 Watch display.

 

mark you sold me the LM-1 im ordering it next paycheck... anyway you seem to be quite intelligent with the data logging and tuning. is there any pdf's you can recommend for me to read? i've read a couple but im still not too confident with everything... HELP ME!

 

Its not that hard to run a check with a second laptop plugged into the serial out of the LC-1 to verify your values with those in the datalogit. That's what I do and my offsets have not changed, approximately .3 AFR off. Verify the values and your fine.

The lag in afr logging is still going to show up in your watches. Just keep that in mind when tuning. Plus if your AFR's are changing so much that the slight lag is affecting your engine, you have more issues than just your wideband.

Even so I still have always wondered why Innovate doesn't have a small LCD screen that uses the digital out. I hate the way their gauge looks.

 

riiiiight.... so instead of have'n one "blind" laptop you'll have two! oh and if people dont want to spend the ca$h for the LM-1 or the xd-16 gage do you really think they'll have another laptop?!

P.S. if youre street tuning your car its probably not to safe to have two laptops to have to handle in the process!
~Jonathan

 

Because the LC-1 is $150 cheaper than the LM-1. The LM-1 is only sampling at 12x/sec anyway while logging according to Innovate so you're not gaining anything IMHO. In addition, according to Innovate, the LC-1 is just a consolodated package. It's doing the exact same thing as the LM-1.[/QUOTE]

so for $150 you are will'n to possibly blow your engine because you are guess'n at your afr's? IMHO why the hell wouldnt you spend 150 bucks to be able to see with your own eyes (in real time) the afr's you are run'n!?!

~Jonathan

 

That's no good - now we have a situation of an expensive "blind" laptop leading another blind laptop; it does nothing to account for the potential of the need for offset corrections. The LM-1 box (or LC-1 w/XD gauge) is "the word of God"! That is the where we put our trust to ascertain that the laptop is logging the same AFR values.

Listen, 454 Dyno in Metairie, LA (New Orleans 'burb) uses a $40,000 state-of-the-art Mustang Mod. 1700 dyno, the third one sold in the U.S. It's software package came programmed and supplied with..... Innovate LM-1 WBO2. 454 Dyno dyno's/tunes Vipers, Porsches, supercharged Fords, BMW and Porsche race cars, Corvette and Honda racers, and FD's..... everything out there.

mono4lamar - yes, I'll help you. Definitely read Wargasm's tuning doc. Download the .xls program file in Turbomark7's folder in User Files folder on the Datalogit Yahoo group. I also strongly recommend reading How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman - about $19 from Amazon Books. And, cewrx7r1 offers documents for a small fee that give incredibly good insight for setting up and optimizing the engine and Datalogit for best performance and reliability - highly recommended!