floatyghosthat

iTrader: (5)

Hey guys,

I absolutely love my FD, and am really excited at the idea of being able to fix/build/tune the whole thing myself. After spending the first year learning the ins and outs of the engine (new rad, gaskets, vacuum lines, etc.) I've decided to start tackling the daunting "electronic" aspect of it.

The car currently has a Power FC with controller, HKS cat-back and Apexi intake. Not much, I know, but power comes after reliability... I've also got Defi gauges monitoring my boost, water temp and oil temp. I had it tuned for the set-up last year.

My eventual plans for the car are: a mild street port, lager stock mount I/C, bigger injectors, meth kit and either upgraded twins or a smallish single. I'm looking for around 350-380 Wheel with good drivability and strong reliability.

Now I'd like to start playing with the ECU a bit. This terrifies me. I REALLY don't want to mess anything up. The first thing I will be buying is a datalogit kit. I really don't know much about it, but as far as I can tell, I can't live without it. I know the first rule to any proper tune is data, and so before I start changing things, I want to know a few more parameters. I know I can't tune without a wideband, so lets start there.

I am leaning towards the Innovate LC-1. I've heard good things, and it's decently priced. As far as I can tell, I can use it as a direct replacement for my stock narrowband and have it go to both the Power FC and Datalogit, correct? If so, what is the best way to have a real-time display in-car?

Next, I would also like to run dual EGT sensors as well. From what I've read, I can make slight alterations to have them read by the Datalogit. Is that the best way to go about it? Any particular sensros I should use?

What about fuel pressure? I would absolutely love to monitor that with the datalogit as well.

Boost control: Should I keep the Power FC as my boost controller or would it be beneficial to switch to a stand-alone EBC such as the Apexi?

It seems the best set-up for the FD is to run a datalogit-based system with everything feeding into it. Are there any issues or limitations with a system like that?

Innovate offers a bunch of systems that will do what I want, but would be more segregated from the Power FC. Would this be a better way to go?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

-Devan

arghx

iTrader: (3)

It terrifies you because you don't understand it yet, that's all. It's a healthy fear.

I've used the LC1, LM1, cheaper Innovate ("DB") gauge and their more expensive serial ("XD16") gauge. So I'll throw in my perspective here.

So here's how the LC1 works. You have a little box that controls the sensor itself (that's what the base $200 cost is) and will send out an analog signal for you to log. So you have to install the box and then you have to buy a gauge and mount it. There are two gauges available. One uses a serial connection to the LC1 box, this unit is called the XD-16. I have that on my car. In my experience it has a reliable signal plus it can directly display error codes that may show up. The other option are the cheaper gauges that use an analog connection to the LC1. Based on my experience with other cars I've worked on I've found these to be inferior (they are cheaper though). The refresh rate is slower and you have to be careful about electrical noise and grounding because it's one of the LC1's analog signals going to the gauge rather than a serial connection. There are also a bunch more wires to hook up on an LC1 compared to its competitors.

The LC1 has a calibration procedure, most other brands don't. Technically that should be a better/more accurate design, but in real world applications I haven't seen it matter a whole lot. Innovate widebands are notorious for burning out sensors, I can tell you that. The strange thing is, the Innovate widebands use the same Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor that most competing products use. I suspect that there is something in the way that the LC1 controls the heater circuit that makes it prone to burning out sensors. I've friend 3 sensors even after following their instructions. You can install a heatsink but you either have to fab one up or buy theirs. On some setups (not all) you really have to jump through hoops to keep the sensors alive with an Innovate wideband.

Another wideband you should look into is the AEM analog display (sweeping needle rather than digital) unit. See this thread about hooking it up to the Datalogit: https://www.rx7club.com/power-fc-forum-47/how-wire-up-aem-analog-display-wideband-datalogit-912142/

This is a recent product from AEM. I was skeptical of it at first--I had one of their early digital display models and it was junk. The build quality was bad (display failed) and it had electrical noise problems. But after using this new product on somebody else's car I was tuning, I will say that AEM has gotten their **** together on this one. The cool thing about an analog display is that you don't have to deal with a choppy frame rate like you do on some digital displays. It's a little weird to see at first but it grows on you.

On the AEM analog unit you install the gauge and hook up the O2 sensor to it, then run two wires to the Datalogit and you are done. Pretty simple. From what I've seen there aren't major electrical noise problems--you can get your wideband display and your Datalogit to agree pretty easily. The old digital AEM display ones were bad about this. The display gauge and the Datalogit were noticeably off no matter what you did with the ground wires etc.

So to sum up: LC1 is a good product but compared to competitors has more parts, a more involved installation procedure, and is more sensitive to hot exhaust and electrical noise/grounding than many competing units. A lot of people (Chuck Westbrook for example) like the PLX unit. I haven't tried it but I've heard good things.

Lastly, at some point you most likely going to turn your factory o2 sensor off in the PFC because the PFC doesn't work very well with it. In fact, it may be turned off already (under etc. --> function select in Commander) I would keep it plugged in using its existing bung (don't cut any wires, just leave it alone). Then you will need to get a new bung welded in for the wideband that is farther downstream in order to protect the sensor.



You have to convert from the K type thermocouple signal to a loggable analog signal. I am using the FJO signal converter box and I like it. I had the old probes from TeamRip and they burnt up (I do have very high exhaust temps though). PM thewird , I think he has some better probes he's using now.

Howard Coleman is doing this. He's using an FJO system.
I wouldn't say it's that popular around here but I like it primarily because of its integration with the PFC. If you do some searches on it here and in the 3rd gen and single turbo section you will see me explaining how it works, how to hook it up, how to tune it, etc. For a long time it was criticized as not working well/at all, but that is because the Apex'i instructions were wrong and their stupid boost control kit is overpriced. The two biggest advantages are that

1) you can switch between high and low boost with the Commander, no need for any external crap to install (extra sensors, boxes, vacuum lines, etc)

2) you can log exactly what the boost control system is doing and it will show up in the Datalogit alongside your sensors. This aids tuning. See https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1271886591 , which is a log of rpm, boost, and wastegate solenoid duty cycle

The drawbacks compared to most external controllers are 1) no gear-based control (which the AVCR has) and 2) it's not that complicated but it's definitely not as simple as a few of the options, like just having to turn a couple ***** on a Greddy Profec S. Of course on those systems you don't have Datalogit integration, so there's a tradeoff.

Mostly your wallet and your willingness to have a bunch of extra sensors and wires in your car.

I've gotten tired of Innovate's BS after a couple years. I only keep it because I've already dumped money into it. I've put their system through hell and it just doesn't hold up to super high exhaust temps, leaded fuel, etc that well. Installation is more involved than it should be. Running everything through the Datalogit is the way to go. It's a huge pain to have two sets of logs and two tuning programs that don't match up.